Sleeping awake?

**11Greg** · 01-07-2015 02:42 PM

In an attempt to wild, I'm struggling to tell the difference between if I managed to fall asleep and retain conciousness or I didn't actually fall asleep to reach at all.

I'm new to this concept, so i'm still trying to figure this all out. Basically during wbtb, I go back to bed tired, when I close my eyes, I till feel tired but then I slip into a snoozy-state, I can see the backs of my eyelids, and my body goes numb I don't feel tired and I don't feel like I need to move or do anything, but I know I'm there, awake in my mind waiting for a dream to happen.

Alternatively I could be getting stuck in the transition and haven't quite made it to sleep yet. So it could be that I haven't been able to pin-point my optimum time to sleep in REM during wbtb or it could be that my mind has trouble sleeping with conciousness and is keeping me awake as it tries to sleep.

Any advice on being able to tell the difference would be appreciated. It should be noted, when I wake up from this, I wake up very tired and I do feel as if I have been sleeping.

**InnerVision** · 01-07-2015 03:12 PM

How long are these attempts? To me it seems that you are right in thinking that you haven't made it to sleep yet. Numbness of the body is often a signal of the early stages of the transition. Further in, you are likely to experience short hallucinations, dream fragments, sudden noises that do not really occur in the real world and things like that. They are not mandatory but very common.
To be a little more concrete I suggest you try to visualise an object like a door or your ceiling or something. If you're already good at visualisation you could even try to form full dreamscapes. This might help to initiate the transition, providing your subconscious with a starting point for constructing a dream.

**ThreeCat** · 01-07-2015 03:49 PM

The same thing happens to me. I will often do this during the day instead of taking a nap. You're not entirely asleep and not entirely awake. You may find it tough to transition from here, but something that has helped me is just to not try after a while. Stop holding the focus so tight. See what happens

**11Greg** · 01-08-2015 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by InnerVision

How long are these attempts? To me it seems that you are right in thinking that you haven't made it to sleep yet. Numbness of the body is often a signal of the early stages of the transition. Further in, you are likely to experience short hallucinations, dream fragments, sudden noises that do not really occur in the real world and things like that. They are not mandatory but very common.
To be a little more concrete I suggest you try to visualise an object like a door or your ceiling or something. If you're already good at visualisation you could even try to form full dreamscapes. This might help to initiate the transition, providing your subconscious with a starting point for constructing a dream.

Depends, around 30 minutes, but sometimes a lot more time passes without me realising it.

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

The same thing happens to me. I will often do this during the day instead of taking a nap. You're not entirely asleep and not entirely awake. You may find it tough to transition from here, but something that has helped me is just to not try after a while. Stop holding the focus so tight. See what happens

I think this is an important point, I'm new to this and I believe that i'm getting worked up trying too hard. I think i'm having trouble anchoring my concious down as I fall asleep, because after I gave up the next thing I know i'm waking up after a non-lucid dream. My dream recall is quite solid so I always remember my dreams.

**InnerVision** · 01-08-2015 08:34 AM

30 minutes and longer is fine so that is probably not the problem. If what ThreeCat said doesn't work (I do think he is on point though) you could experiment with different moments of attempting a WILD because you might not be in a REM phase.

**11Greg** · 01-08-2015 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by InnerVision

30 minutes and longer is fine so that is probably not the problem. If what ThreeCat said doesn't work (I do think he is on point though) you could experiment with different moments of attempting a WILD because you might not be in a REM phase.

Last night I woke up about 4 times and each time I tried to WILD, I ended up falling asleep to enter a non lucid dream. There is a fine line between trying to much and trying too little. Trying too much prevents you from sleeping and the other prevents you from keeping your conscious mind aware as you fall asleep, it looks like there is a sweet spot, and I have not found it.

Anyway thanks for the advice.

**InnerVision** · 01-09-2015 02:44 PM

That's a problem I encounter myself... Either insomnia or heavy, non-lucid sleep. I'm not really able to give you more advice other than to keep trying and maybe try to observe whether you are tense when you are aware... Relaxation is very important for WILD (which is why I have given up on it).

**ThreeCat** · 01-09-2015 04:11 PM

What are you using to anchor your awareness? And how much sleep are you getting prior to the attempt?

**11Greg** · 01-10-2015 02:25 AM

I sleep a lot, minimum 5 hours. Then I try to wild 5:30 - 9 hours. Back and forth awake to sleep, awake to sleep. Each time failing to wild but at least know that right after I fall asleep I'm entering a non-LD. As for the anchor, i've been playing with different ones back and forth, I've tried focusing on breath, but it's very easy to completely forget. I've tried different phrases that people like to use, but I find having to repeat them over and over, they are a little too long for my liking and focusing to repeat that in my head keeps me awake.

Right now I'm repeating "real tea", as an anchor. Have not WILD yet, but I accidentally done a dild I think, realising I was dreaming while in a dream, but i'm sure it was at the end of a REM cycle. As everything was fading rapidly even though I did my best to just chill and take things one step at a time. Within about 10 seconds, everything was gone. I was back to the stage of (HI/HH?) seeing geometric shapes at the back of my eyelids. I'm sure that would have probably been a decent time for DEILD, but inexperience prevented me from recognizing that.

**ThreeCat** · 01-10-2015 03:46 AM

I don't think breath is a super great anchor because you end up losing it going into a dream (I have however used it, and ended up DILDing shortly after). Real tea is probably better. You should also probably ask Sageous his opinion:

http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13309...-bad-here.html