Thread: I take refuge in the Buddha?

I have been studying, not practicing, Tibetan Buddhism. I adapt some of their practices but I cannot say that I am buddhist because of philosophical differences.

I am interested in learning about them because I find their perspective very interesting.

Here's my question: How can you take refuge in another when one of buddha's primary teachings was Be a light unto your own path and do not look out side yourself for your answers?

Any and all illumination is sincerely appreciated

I think you sort of answered your own question. The Buddha was a light to his own path, and told others to do the same. One can take refuge in the Buddha in that they can "follow in his footsteps" not by actually following his path but by following his example of forging one's own path. For the most part the Buddha didn't really offer answers. He offered a method of obtaining answers for oneself, mainly through the contemplation of the four noble truths and the eightfold path.

Simply accepting what he said is not the way to attain enlightenment, and he never said it was. One must contemplate for themself the nature of the world, and they can look to the Buddha for an example of how this can be successfully done.

Maybe I did but I am really curious then why one might need a monk to initiate one into buddhism.

I had a ceremony with an incan shaman where we worked with power plants, before I ever read anything about tibetan buddhism. In this ceremony I was visited by three deities or demi-god-ish figures: a wrathful deity, Horus the, & another amazon looking bird headed figure. I went to the nearest tibetan buddhist temple here in town where I asked to identify the wrathful deity who turned out to be Mahakala. I wanted to honor my experience so I asked to purchase some literature relating to him. I was then asked to first receive initation & take refuge in the buddha before I could buy the materials.

I didn't buy it. I was offered a book of traditional tibetan buddhist chants. I bought it & began to read it and it said something to the effect of I hope I please the lamas. I returned the book and declined my refund. I was confused and outraged that people who seemed so intelligent trying to tell me that I have to say implying that I needed them to approve of my interest or initiation before I could learn more.

why would one volunteer for such dis-empowerment? I accept that we can benefit from some of the insights gained by buddha but why would I need another's approval to do so especially a buddhist monk? Is initiation equivalent to taking refuge?

Remember the church is not the teachings. Don't blame Buddha because some of his followers decided to set up a lucrative gift shop.

Buddhism is some-thing created by others

Buddha is an association

A word

Not an individual

Leave conditioned thinking aside

Siddhartha did


The trees are not seen for the forrest

Walk around the trees as you go through the forrest

One arises from another

One falls before another


Every thing..

Every phenomenon..

A sign pointing to within your own Self


There is no thing...

No phenomenon...

Such that is separate from your Self

All are reflections

Somewhere between the mirror and its reflections..

You are

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Remember the church is not the teachings. Don't blame Buddha because some of his followers decided to set up a lucrative gift shop.

Yeah, really. One of the reasons I cannot see myself ever getting involved with organized religion.

Dark Matters:I am not critical of my awareness of buddha. I am asking if anyone has ever been asked by a buddhist monk or representative to receive approval from them before the monks decided to share their knowledge with them & how this might be empowering if it is at all to the seeker of joy, peace & knowledge?

BTW I got a good laugh out of the gift shop bit. he he he

NonDualistic: that was a very beautiful & eloquent response. However, my question still remains; How is it healthy/benefical to profess your need of refuge?

Some people say Buddhism is an atheist philosophy having nothing to do with spirituality.

Some people say it's a spiritual path of enlightenment, that does include spirituality.

But both of these ignore that there is a REAL religious aspect to Buddhism. People in the west idealize everything about Buddhism saying how it's none of the quakyness of religion, but that isn't true. There are plenty of Buddhists that have turned Buddhas teachings into a dogmatic religion, and it's been this way for a long time. Like all centralized religions, this creates a whole lot of silly meaningless rules, and not to mention a hierarchy system of priests, lamas or monks. I'm not even allowed to take part in some of these Buddhist temples, just because I'm female.

How many female monks have you seen? There is as much effort happening in the east to allow females to be ordained in these temples, as there is in the west to allow females to be christian priests.

So while in the west we see these temples, and think how beautiful and how special these monks must be - we need to remember that a lot of these temples aren't just involved in spirituality. . .BUT RELIGION

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

Dark Matters:I am not critical of my awareness of buddha. I am asking if anyone has ever been asked by a buddhist monk or representative to receive approval from them before the monks decided to share their knowledge with them & how this might be empowering if it is at all to the seeker of joy, peace & knowledge?

BTW I got a good laugh out of the gift shop bit. he he he

NonDualistic: that was a very beautiful & eloquent response. However, my question still remains; How is it healthy/benefical to profess your need of refuge?

When embarking on a journey, one needs to know where one is going

Before leaving one needs to know how to get there

The benefits thereof are self evident


Many can tell you where to go, and point the way to get there..

But no matter what someone else says

Only you can take yourself there


Religions and teachers have their uses

Though..

They cannot give you anything that you yourself did not already posess

They can only awaken you to what is already hidden within yourself

Beyond that of what benefit could they possibly be?

Tibetan Buddhism is a couple of sects of Buddhism. There is Mahayana, and then there is Vajrayana. Originally all there was was Buddha's historic teachings, called Sutrayana. Then later it evolve into Mahayana. The difference is basically that in Sutrayana the focus is on reaching enlightenment for yourself. Mahayana is reaching enlightenment fo the benefit of all sentient beings. This is where the Bodhisattvas come from: Mahayana. Then Vajrayana is basically Mahayana mixed with magical sorcery and shamanism. It has a lot lot lot of stuff that the Buddha never taught. Vajrayana is Tantra.
So, for these teachings, lineage is very important. Every monk can trace his lineage back to the Buddha himself, or to another Buddha (enlightened being) who brought the teachings. The idea is to keep the teachings pure and there is a secret transmission beyond words that is passed on form teacher to student.
However, it can become a dogma. I'd like to think that an you were already initiated when you had your experience. The Buddha initiated himself. You initiated yourself.
That is something that is lost nowadays and that is something that we are bringing back. The ability to initiate yourself. But then you don't have the lineage to back you up.
The whole requirement of initiation is also a way for the lamas to keep their power. Unfortunately, even Buddhism is trying to cling to its authority and resist change.

But real Buddhism is just the truth. The Dharma is the truth. And to take refuge in the Dharma is to take refuge on the truth. To take refuge in the Buddha is to take refuge in the fact that you to are a Buddha. To take refuge in the Sangha (spiritual community) is to join a living web of light made of people like you, me, the Incan Shaman, Juroara, Darkmatters, NonDualistic, the Dalai Lama, etc...

If we feed this living web of light it will expand and empower us and envelope others and empower everyone.