Thread: The Nature of Satan

Originally Posted by nerve

I saw a special on natgeo (I think?) on Noah's ark, they made it clear it would not have been possible for a boat such as described in the bible to have been built at the time it was supposed to have been...and also could not have withstood the storm/flood described in the bible.

Let alone that no flood of the entire world ever happened, and lol: two blue whales sitting on a boat uh

I dunno, I thought there was actually a big flood, maybe not the ENTIRE EARTH but...

I know several other ancient cultures have great flood myths, like the only example I can think of is the one in Gilgamesh by the Sumerians. I'm not saying that's proof or anything, just thought it was worth mentioning.

I haven't studied this extensively or anything (because I don't care and have no reason to), but I have heard that there is proof of an epic flood. of course, I grew up (and still live) in a baptist christian family, so I'm surrounded by idiots people who jump on any supposed "proof" that they stumble upon. tell me (and feel free) am I completely retarded for thinking it is even a possibility? I mean, were all these ancient cultures really just making up stories, or is there some truth to it?

oh, and why would Noah need to put whales in the ark when they live in water and the earth was supposed to be covered in...water

Originally Posted by nerve

I dunno, I thought there was actually a big flood, maybe not the ENTIRE EARTH but...

I know several other ancient cultures have great flood myths, like the only example I can think of is the one in Gilgamesh by the Sumerians. I'm not saying that's proof or anything, just thought it was worth mentioning.

I haven't studied this extensively or anything (because I don't care and have no reason to), but I have heard that there is proof of an epic flood. of course, I grew up (and still live) in a baptist christian family, so I'm surrounded by idiots people who jump on any supposed "proof" that they stumble upon. tell me (and feel free) am I completely retarded for thinking it is even a possibility? I mean, were all these ancient cultures really just making up stories, or is there some truth to it?

There were a few large floods in the middle east

OF course everyone at the time thought that middle east=world.

They appear in religions of the same area.

It's expected that the flood stories are based on a few notably large floods in the area.

Hardly worldwide all animals died stuff, but then again the writers of the Bible are a little bit guilty of sensationalism, exaggeration and dick waving of God quite alot.

I love you too.


Also:

Originally Posted by nerve

oh, and why would Noah need to put whales in the ark when they live in water and the earth was supposed to be covered in...water

Guy has a sense of humour.

Um.....

Excuse me people,

There are two gigantic pages FILLED with atheists haggling me over stupid little details, and in one post, you expect me to answer ALL OF THEM!?

Excuse ME for skipping over a few of them!!!!!

Link me to your posts and I'll answer them.

Oh freaking brother.

Originally Posted by stonedape

You also claim he is not against morals, yet he has no problem with lying, killing or stealing. Contradiction, no?

No.

Indeed, he is not opposed to morals.

But he is not necessarily opposed to evil either.

Originally Posted by Noogah

There are two gigantic pages FILLED with atheists haggling me over stupid little details, and in one post, you expect me to answer ALL OF THEM!?

Ne-yo or ShadowNightWing would have done it for us. With added wall of text as well.

Originally Posted by Noogah

No.

Indeed, he is not opposed to morals.

But he is not necessarily opposed to evil either.

Is lying moral, or immoral?

What of stealing or killing?

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Taken out of your favorite book.

Personally, I consider these things immoral. They are permissible within certain contexts, but if you don't consider these things immoral, what do you consider immoral?

What is the difference between evil and immorality?

Originally Posted by stonedape

Is lying moral, or immoral?

What of stealing or killing?


Taken out of your favorite book.

Personally, I consider these things immoral. They are permissible within certain contexts, but if you don't consider these things immoral, what do you consider immoral?

What is the difference between evil and immorality?

I think using any set unbendable rules to define morality is a massive mistake. It oversimplifies the world. That's how you end up with absurd things happening. Cases should be judged morally on an individual basis rather than applying one blanket rule to everything.

There are very few total moral rules which there can't be any exceptions to. We can think of a thousand cases where it could be moral to kill a man, or to steal. We break down the true complexity and difficulty of this world by submitting to set rules.

Originally Posted by carousoul

Ne-yo or ShadowNightWing would have done it for us. With added wall of text as well.

Spoiler for Oh?:

Originally Posted by Carousoul

I think using any set unbendable rules to define morality is a massive mistake. It oversimplifies the world.

It does, which is why in the new testament, the Holy Spirit was given to Chrsitians. A fact often always overlooked by atheists.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Personally, I consider these things immoral.

I know you're trying to make a point here, but I am afraid that I am having a hard time seeing it. The commandments do not portray these things as moral.

Originally Posted by stonedape

What is the difference between evil and immorality?

I don't believe there is any.

how manipulative would God have to be, to create a being with the power to create evil, and then blame that being for using his god-given gift to create evil - when all power comes from God?

Thats one pretty crappy God!!

Here is my alternative story. You can think of this as a FAIRY TALE.

Part 1: The root of all Evil
Dualism is problem that arises from seeing two opposites that are believed to be dualing, like good and evil. Or its a problem that arises when you see two opposites and believe they are SEPERATE. Like spirit and matter. Religion has instilled dualism. Such as telling us it's against our soul(spirit) to be horny(matter).

Is dualism true?

The truth is, and proven by science, everything is all the same stuff! Everything is energy. We are so essentially the same stuff, that your very essence is the same essence of the big bang that created the Universe.

Spirituality has been barking for thousands of years that all separation is an illusion. What does all separation being an illusion mean? Take any dualistic argument, such as good and evil - and it means that they are fundamentally the same exact thing.

Part 2: How is Good and Evil the Same thing?
It's simple. Think of the separate colors of the rainbow. They are actually all the same thing, light. Imagine that good and evil are gradient colors on a scale. The top colors is what we call 'good', the bottom colors are what we call 'evil'. But they are both the same thing on this scale of energy. So what is good and evil if they are same thing? What would be this gradient scale? This gradient scale is consciousness and how that consciousness views reality.

On the higher rungs of consciousness, everything is ONE. If you are in this consciousness you LOVE everyone and everything. To not love them is not love yourself. To cause them harm, is to cause yourself harm. This is the type of consciousness that Jesus and Buddha stood for.

Now lets jump in the opposite consciousness. What happens if you view everything as fundamentally separate? Suddenly you're in a world where life is "me vs. them"!!! Where harming others is justifiable in a darwinian sense.

For Jesus to rebel against God, is impossible. Because to Jesus, that would be rebelling against himself. Lucifer however rebelled against God in my FAIRY TALE. This means that on a fundamental level he believes he is separate from God. Believing that everything is separate is not a crime in itself, or evil. It's perfectly natural and God sees no fault in this consciousness.

Part 3: When the angels created a God
Before our earthly realm was created, the realm of angels was created. The angels would co-create their own reality as if it were a giant shared dream. Except they didn't realize they were dreaming.

So what happens if potentially MILLIONS of angels collectively believe that God is SEPARATE, and their thoughts CREATE? They literally created a false God that is separate from themselves. Technically speaking this God isn't real, not anymore real than a dream character. It is a walking talking illusion borrowing consciousness

This false dreamed up God has enough consciousness to know it will cease to exist if others stop dreaming of it. And while at first this false God might try to win your attention through Love or worship, it wouldn't take long for this consciousness hungry monster to realize the easiest way to get bits and pieces of your thoughts - IS THROUGH FEAR! And Satan, the God of Evil, and an entire host of illusionary dreamed up demons were born.

Where does Lucifer fit in? He possibly led a rebellion against this Satan. A battle which only fueled Satan more!!!

Can you imagine how terrifying this shared nightmare was, and how each moment it only grew more and more and more and more terrifying? As dreamers we all understand the domino effect of fear in dreams!

Were talking an entire realm the size of a Universe at war with itself!

Part 4: The Great Creator Intervines!
God the Creator, the real God the Creator, had no choice but to intervine. Now God in this fairy tale absolutely respects free wil. God only intervined when it became necessary to save them from their own illusions!

God cut off the Light from the angels who were rebelling against Satan. This light is the power to co-create. Everything that is created is created through this light, including ones own ego. The idea was, if they could no longer co-create - then this illusionary God, Satan would eventually starve and disappear.

However........your ego would also starve and cease to exist in the process!! Once their egos would cease to exist they would be freed as forms of pure consciousness. Lucifer not understanding the truth became afraid he would cease to exist. Lucifer became consciously aware that the false God - Satan - only exists because it steals life sustaining energy from innocent victims. Lucifer realized he could do the same.

Part 5: Lucifer Rebels against the Creator
And this is the real infamous rebellion of Lucifer and his horde of fallen angels. Not wanting to give up their egos, which has an experation date, they needed to steal life sustaining and creative light from innocent victims to keep their egos alive. Who could be their victims?

Enter humanity and all of the material realm.

It was through the slow and calculated manipulation of Lucifer that we began to believe that God is separate from us, that God was to be FEARED! And through the terrifying fear of God, we would give up energy unknowingly to Lucifer and his fallen angels. And as we believed we were separate from God, we too fell in the process. It was NEVER Lucifers goal to send us to hell. It was Lucifers goal to keep us from ascending . So we can remain reincarnating on the earth for the purpose of feeding him life sustaining energy.

Part 6: So is Lucifer Evil? The answer is still No.
In one passage of the bible Lucifer is depicted as bound in the lowest levels of hell, and weeping. That's right...weeping. He's not laughing or enjoying the show of demons tormenting. Bound and weeping! . . . why?

How could God create an evil being? This image answers the riddle. God didn't.

Lucifer, or the consciousness within Lucifer IS THE FIRST VICTIM of this story. He is victim number one. Satan realized his time was up. Satan realized that without the thoughts of the angels, he would cease to exist. Satan "came up" with a plan. Lie or die.

When the angels including Lucifer realized they were no longer receiving creative light - Satan lied and told them that "GOD HATES YOU!". That God would never forgive them for their travesty, and unless they join him - that is continue the art of manipulation - they too would cease to exist. Through absolute fear, stemming from dualism, they willingly aligned with Satan. Lucifer, being the former greatest angel among them all, became the 'Prince of Evil'. He has taken orders from a powerful, but also illusionary being.

God is not like the God in the bible. He she, it, whatever, absolutely ABSOLUTELY respects free will. Seeing that his creations have willingly aligned with Satan, God allowed this to play out. But the God in this story is still an all loving God. And decided that this little game would have an absolute deadline. At some point in the future, that was it. God himself will "dissolve" Satan, demons and every ego aligned with it. GAME OVER!

Why didn't God free them from beginning?

Part 7: God's Desire to Self Transcend
Because God has an unstoppable desire to self-transcend. This very desire created the Universe and set everything into motion, including our own evolution. As God desires to self-transcend, God desires for his/her self-extensions to overcome all of their illusions and self-trascend as well. Overcoming Satan then, is as simple as realizing when a nightmare is just a dream.

In the happy ending, all the victims in the story - the fallen agnels and humanity - would wake up and realize we are all fundamentally ONE - and death is an illusion - there is absolutely NOTHING to fear. And even the consciousness in Lucifer himself, will once again know the sweetness of heaven. Because God, the real God, holds no ill feelings towards Lucifer.

Part 8: Compassion and Forgiveness
Satan isn't actually real. You see, when he lied to the angels and told them "God hates you" that was just the manifestation of their own deep rooted fears. Should you ever meet Satan, recognize you are only meeting your own deep rooted fears. Have compassion and forgiveness for yourself.

Only compassion, forgiveness and love can free a fallen being. Warrior angels use love to dissolve what is not real. Illusionary demons fade like shadows to light in the presences of these angels. When this same love is given to a fallen being - their egos melt away. The fears melt. Their self hatred melts. And they finally accept love as they surrender their egos to God. And they once again reunite with their brothers and sisters in heaven knowing no one in heaven hates them or judges them.

If they are unable to do this now because of how much they hate themselves, then they need only rebel until the allotted time when God will free them from their egos.

Rumor has it that time is fast approaching!

Originally Posted by Idolfan

But Noogah, why do you believe the books of the bible just because they happen to be in the bible? What about all the books that were excluded because some people thought they were 'unholy'?

What does this have to do with my believing in the Bible? The books that were apparently not "included" in the Bible are not in Bible, and so therefore they are NOT the Bible. And so, my words do not apply to them.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

And if you believe every word of it then that also means you believe that Noah brought whales onto the ark

No. The Bible doesn't say that they did. The blowhole on top of a whale is not a nostril, per say.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Even though it's been proven that it was added in much later.

Heh heh. The so called "evidence" provided against that passage have not impressed many scholars.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

so who are you going to believe? Evidence, or the bible?

Elementary, my dear idol. I tend to believe, both, as I think the two compliment each other quite nicely.

Originally Posted by idolfan

Have YOU got a scripture saying that Lucifer IS Satan? NO!

Aside from the fact taht I never stated he was....

have fun.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As the evidence indicates I suppose he tends to lean to the more domineering egomaniacal side if the child batterer.

Come now. I think you're intelligent enough to know that cutting and pasting verse outside of their context ruins there true meaning. Read the books that these verse are in, or at least the chapter. You will find that they actually make much sense. Of course, I could summarize just about anything falsely by simply cutting and padting parts of them.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

God created everything that exists.

Yes, and he did create Satan. However, he did not create Satan as evil.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieD

Why did God need to commit suicide to give us another chance?

Jesus was not human, but he occupied a human body. he allowed himself to be tortured, and killed in PLACE of humans. Besides that, he allowed his soul to take the guilt of all mankinds sins, and took the punishment necessary to appease them, so that we would not have to.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieD

Why was God powerless? I thought God could do anything he wanted.

God had the choice to give us a choice. he could have made you a robot if you wanted to. He could have forced you to everything he wanted you to do. But I rather doubt that you appreciate that concept. So instead, he gave them a choice, a VERY simple command, and teh command was disobeyed. Consequences ensued.

Originally Posted by stonedape

This thread is making me love Satan.

Refer to my posts.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Characteristics of Satan

1. Created by God, and not equal to God (Prov 16:4)

2. Defies God and despises truth (John 8:44)

3. Was given limited power (Job 1:8-12)

4. Was defeated at Calvary (Eph. 1:20-23)

5. Rules the masses outside God’s protection (Eph. 2:1-3)

6. Commands a hierarchy of demons (Eph. 6:10-12)

7. Came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10)

8. Masquerades as "an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14-15)

9. Tries to hide the actual truth about our God.

10. Twists the meaning of Scriptures to fit his purposes. (Gen. 3:1-5)

11. Offers counterfeit promises he can't fulfill

12. Always seeks an "opportune time" to tempt us (Luke 4:13)

NOT a very "cool" guy.

I have a hard time understanding the appeal you see in Satan.

Originally Posted by nerve

hopefully he's doing some serious thinking.

Actually, I was hoping to avoid this thread until it's popularity simmered down. Thatw ay, I could continue posting without being flooded with arguments.

It's rather difficult debating on a creationist/evolutionist ration of 1/10.

Oh well. I suppose I can't wait any longer.

Originally Posted by nerve

I saw a special on natgeo (I think?) on Noah's ark, they made it clear it would not have been possible for a boat such as described in the bible to have been built at the time it was supposed to have been...and also could not have withstood the storm/flood described in the bible.

People have no knowledge as to waht condition the earth was in before the flood.

Oh, and, yes, it could survive the conditions. A whole documentary was made on it. if you have time, watch Noah's Ark - Thinking Outside the Box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiMeNhl2VUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gapJqaLjbpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWGvdJFQPlQ

Originally Posted by Noogah

stuff

Skipped responding to my post there champ.

Also, I don't think this thread is so much about science vs creationism, rather people who think it's a lillll bit batshit fucking insane to believe every word of a book which has been warped and politically manipulated out of shape for the past 2000 years AND which was originally written by uneducated arabs in a desert society in one small corner of the world to explain what they couldn't understand, and to act as a creative output and work of art, as well as perpetuating the laws and ideologies of the time via enforcement by 'the ultimate tribal leader', that is, God.

Also I think it's mainly the old testament that's puzzling. it's FAR more reasonable to believe every word in the new testament, and even that's far out.

In which case the ratio seems far more reasonable of being 10:1

Also note the convenient side-step of the many, many contradictions he made when refering to Satan. You know, like the one where he wants world peace and harmony, and also to kill, rape, and maim. Still waiting for an answer to THAT one...

He didn't really respond to mine either. He just told me to read his posts. Can you please respond to this at least? Copypasta for you.

You also claim he is not against morals, yet he has no problem with lying, killing or stealing. Contradiction, no?

The apeal is that he wants world peace. Also it's quite difficult as a human to oppose someone who fully supports humanism.

To top it all off, it's highly likely that Satan=Dionysus, who is the only god I occasionally worship.

Carôusoul...I love you.

(you never replied about the whales: lol

also, I owe you a reply in some thread somewhere. getting it)

Originally Posted by Noogah

Come now. I think you're intelligent enough to know that cutting and pasting verse outside of their context ruins there true meaning. Read the books that these verse are in, or at least the chapter. You will find that they actually make much sense. Of course, I could summarize just about anything falsely by simply cutting and padting parts of them.

What the fuck do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

Originally Posted by stonedape

So do you still hold that Satan is evil, yet he is not opposed to morality, wants world peace etc.?

What is your definition of evil?

Also, you claim that Satan wants world peace. Does God want world peace as well?

If the God of the bible had world peace then there wouldn't be anyone else left to torture. He already tried this with the flood remember but still kept eight people alive for some reason.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

What the fuck do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

Originally Posted by stonedape

What is your definition of evil?

You may as well ask: What do you consider water? In which case, the answer would obviously be, whatever is water.

The same goes for evil. Whatever is evil, I consider evil.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Also, you claim that Satan wants world peace. Does God want world peace as well?

How strong Statan's desire for world peace is, I can't say. It may only be a small goal for him. Either way, I believe he would still like to accomplish it. And, yes, God's goal is for world peace, as is shown to happen after the seven year tribulation.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

What the **** do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

I mean precisely what I said: Taken outside of the text that it what was connected to. When this is done, the perspective of how it was being used is lost.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

He already tried this with the flood remember but still kept eight people alive for some reason.

Not for SOME reason. Not for a random senseless reason.

Originally Posted by Genesis 6:5-7; King James Version

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

And the reason Noah found grace is revealed in the next chapter.

Originally Posted by Genesis 7:1;King James Version

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Noah was spared because amidst all the evils of the world, he was righteous. And if he hadn't, you wouldn't be where you are as you read.

Originally Posted by evildoctor

there's rather a lot of it in the bible

Evildoctor, the Bible cannot help what is history. The world is bad. Sorry. Incest happened/happens/will continue to happen. And what do you mean "there's a lot of it"? I only recall one instance at the moment. And considering that the Old Testament alone spanned around 3,500 years, even 5-10 instances wouldn't be a whole lot.

Now go on.

Go Google "incest in the bible" so that you can come back here and paste all the verses that make reference to it.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You may as well ask: What do you consider water? In which case, the answer would obviously be, whatever is water.

The same goes for evil. Whatever is evil, I consider evil.

This makes very little sense. There is only one thing that has been called water, and that is water. There are many things that have been called evil. Some people have said murder is evil. Some people have said stealing is evil. Some people have said smoking marijuana is evil. Some people have said that money is the root of all evil. Different people consider different things to be evil. What is your perspective?

Again what is your definition of evil?

If your having a hard time putting it into words consider this: What makes one thing evil and another good? Is it an inherent quality of an object or event, or is it more complex than that? What are the characteristics of evil?

Originally Posted by Noogah

How strong Statan's desire for world peace is, I can't say. It may only be a small goal for him. Either way, I believe he would still like to accomplish it. And, yes, God's goal is for world peace, as is shown to happen after the seven year tribulation.

So why has it taken God so long to getting around to this world peace business? Isn't he Omnipotent? If he wants it why doesn't he just make it happen? Is it a large goal for God?

Noogah I'm sorry to say this but either you are deliberately skipping around facts to piss us off or you are intellectually impared.

Okay, first, about taking the verses out of context. You tell me, please, what has been taken out of context? What is there to take out of context? It's in the context of God commanding people to fucking kill other people. It's true, I read it in the bloody bible. If you look up the verses I quoted, you can see for yourself that they are in the context of God commanding people to fucking kill other people.

I don't care if you won't admit to this, but you obviously just skimmed over all of the texts and brushed it aside in your head with this automatic response. Some part of yourself, probably the human side, can't bear that God would possibly command genocide against his own creation, so you cover it up and just keep the good parts.

And also, of course incest might not be directly mentioned in the bible (but I bet it is), but the point everyone's trying to make is that incest must have happened in order for people to be descended from Adam and Eve. This is something that you must accept, so why do you respond negatively? If God intended Adam and Eve to populate the Earth, which you believe, and that he condoned it, which you believe, then God was by definition condoning incest.

By deduction we can also say that God still condones incest because God does not change as it says in Malachai (3:6).

It would be much better for you to take a non literal approach to the bible, it's embarassing and it is so obvious that the bible contradicts itself all over the place. This is in no way a threat to your Christianity, if you think it is then explain to us why you still believed the bible was the word of God even though it never speaks of Jesus ever commanding anyone to write down anything. The word of God should be Jesus' words, but you have absolutely no way of knowing that they have not been changed. On the other hand, we in the fields of reality understand that his words clearly have been changed, by looking at archaeological evidence, while the rest of the Christian world have not evolved past their preference of new books simply because they are not tatty.

You could go so far as to simply accepting a Jesus as an archetypal figure, and actually using your brain to sort out moral situations, but I do not mean for you to go that far. To me Christianity makes enough sense as long as it's not bloody literal. Check your facts, please!

"Noah was spared because amidst all the evils of the world, he was righteous. And if he hadn't, you wouldn't be where you are as you read."

Why is that a good thing? If Noah hadn't been spared then I wouldn't be on my way to hell would I?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

You tell me, please, what has been taken out of context? What is there to take out of context?

Dude. There's nothing to discuss. It's not some kind of frantic excuse. I didn't even need to think about it. It's clear and simple to understand, and if you refuse to acknowledge it, I am not insulting you by saying you are seriously biased. However, you will obviously not leave me alone unless I explain myself, so I will:

You cannot cut three words out of a 1,000+ word chapter, and expect it to make the same sense it was supposed to make when it was in the Bible, or any other book for that matter. It erases the cause, it erases the events leading up to it, and it erases what happens afterwords. I'm not going to flood you with examples, because I don't believe you need them. I think you know exactly what I'm talking about, and I think you know exactly the flaws of quoting out of context. If you SERIOUSLY don't understand the concept of quoting things out of context, then read this Wikipedia article.

I don't care if you won't admit to this, but you obviously just skimmed over all of the texts and brushed it aside in your head with this automatic response.

Of course I admit to it. I saw a bunch of patches cut out of the Bible, and immediately knew what was up.

This is something that you must accept, so why do you respond negatively?

Oh, well of course. I didn't think you meant THAT. Answer's simple:

It happened before incest was forbidden. LONG before. And it wasn't a very strange concept either, seeing as there was no one else around getting married. It was only natural.

Also, no. God doesn't change, but his rules did. Even so, he never "changed" his rule on incest, as he never specifically forbade it, nor did he permit it before he made it against the rules. That is to my knowledge.

It would be much better for you to take a non literal approach to the bible, it's embarassing and it is so obvious that the bible contradicts itself all over the place.

Do you have an alternative to taking it literally? Everything it says has proven true to me...

Funny. I never saw a contradiction. You might want to show me one.

if you think it is then explain to us why you still believed the bible was the word of God even though it never speaks of Jesus ever commanding anyone to write down anything.

Because Jesus acknowledged the written word of God, and even quoted it on occasion.

The word of God should be Jesus' words

Yes. Father/Son/Holy Ghost.

On the other hand, we in the fields of reality understand that his words clearly have been changed, by looking at archaeological evidence, while the rest of the Christian world have not evolved past their preference of new books simply because they are not tatty.

1.No they haven't. If you still insist that they do, demonstrate.

2.What? Tatty? Is that really what you think? Really?

Why is that a good thing? If Noah hadn't been spared then I wouldn't be on my way to hell would I?

You wouldn't even exist. Body, or soul.

Originally Posted by stonedape

There is only one thing that has been called water....What is your perspective?

True, maybe water isn't the best analogy. Let's use human's.

Indians.

Asians

Caucasians.

Mexicans.

Africans.

Germans.

In the end, they're all human.

If he wants it why doesn't he just make it happen?

If he did that, what about the poor bloaks who wouldn't get a shot at salvation? He's giving us time.