Thread: Women must submit to men?

I was raised catholic. My parents weren't super religious, but I was devout in my own special way. What I mean is I didn't have a fundamentalist view, because there was no one around to preach it do me. When I decided to read the bible, I did so out of my own free will and choosing.

And when it finally came time to read it, my catholic world turned upside down. It became so obvious and crystal clear to me that the catholic church didn't seem to follow any of Jesus' teachings. And how vastly different the bible is before and after the gospels

When it came time to be submissive, I got angry. There were nights I cried, because I was now being told that I am a worthless female. How I hated paul!

But I never had problems reading the actual gospel, or Jesus words. So I held onto to Jesus instead and prayed for an answer. I told Jesus that if he would tell me directly that I am to be submissive and shut up, then I would. Otherwise, help me understand the worth of being female

It wasn't more than a week before answers started coming to me. Slowly,and surely, I was finding what I wanted to know. First conspiracies regarding the church and the translation of the bible. I remember at that time I learned there was this 'other' gospel. But at the time I never found/read it.

But my quest didn't end there. I learned about other religions and spirituality in general. And although the teachings of these other spiritualities were superior to anything in the bible, I naively held onto to Jesus. I'm glad I did, because after many years I came full circle. And rediscovered that other gospel. That is, I discovered the gnostic Jesus.

Had I discovered the gnostic Jesus all those years ago, I would have rejected him. I needed to taste the fruits of other religions and spiritualities to fully appreciate the gnostic Jesus, and what the gnostic Jesus has to teach and say.

I don't consider myself Christian anymore. But I consider myself a follower of Christ. Because it was holding onto to Jesus and asking what did Jesus really teach, did I find so many great truths that have expanded my mind since. So I remain faithful to Jesus.

Submission back then was a terrible word. It meant shutting up and having someone else think for you, and tell you how to breathe

But the word submission, to submit, has taken on a whole new meaning now. A meaning that requires an individual to be brave, fearless, like submitting to love. Or submitting to the moment. Going with the flow, instead of trying to control everything

It's got little or nothing to do with being subordinate

If it's a practical problem of not disturbing the rest of the church, why isn't there a passage telling men to be silent (is there?), or telling the men to ask their wives later if they had questions or a unisex variation like "everybody shut up in church". This seems to me as an attempt at a rationalization. He generalizes on how everybody must be silent in church, while the passage only addresses the women. It's pretty obvious that women back then were not too far away from what fundamentalist Islam tells women to be like today. Even if this rationalization is true, it's clear that singling out the women implies man's dominance. That's how I see it. Personally I don't see why they shouldn't take this as literally as they take the gay passages etc. Whenever there is something they don't like, there is a workaround.

People often confuse religion and culture. The culture of the time and place was that women should be subservient, homosexuals were abominations and slvaery was alright. Thus these values were passed on to the religion that sprouted in that time and place. This in itself should be evidence that the Bible Old and New Testament is not diviniely inspired, but merely men of the time trying to influence and control society through spirtiuality. For centuries religion has played a central part in the organisation and control of society.
DaveJ your response is blatantly you dodging the truth and trying to justify your religion. What you should be doing, as a good Christian, is dominating your wife and treating her like shit. I also hope you make sure that she doesn't speak in Church, if not, you and your wife both fail as Christians.

Imran, neither my wife nor I speak at church while the service is going on. it is rude a disruptive.

Secondly, I don't really care about your rude comments so if you want to try and show the slightest bit of respect you could possibly muster up, we can have a decent conversation. I have done nothing but try to show as much respect as i can towards you and everyone else.

Please pinpoint this insult in my post. And I said insult, not valid point that causes me offence.

What you should be doing, as a good Christian, is dominating your wife and treating her like shit. I also hope you make sure that she doesn't speak in Church, if not, you and your wife both fail as Christians

I don't even know why i am entertaining the thought of answering you but that is a pretty rude and smart comment. don't expect anymore responses.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Personally I don't see why they shouldn't take this as literally as they take the gay passages etc. Whenever there is something they don't like, there is a workaround.

This is one of the things that fustrates me most about theists.