Okay, so we've established that we are comparing ourselves, and the things we know, to judge how complex the universe is. Again, I think this is faulty. The universe is so unimaginably huge, that this is worse than comparing ourselves to a single-celled organism. Note I said unimaginably huge. By that, I mean huge compared to anything we know. At the same time, to use your ball analogy, the universe is just one ball. We can't pull out another ball and compare. So this "designer" ( ) would have to be able to understand said complex universe and all inhabitants, in order to construct it. He would have to base this on something. I encourage you to create a new colour. Difficult eh?

We look at ourselves for example. Birth was not well understood a long time ago, despite being a major process. Now we know how that baby develops, what cells do what, ect. Now we no longer say some mis-understood force made the baby. Now we say the baby grew in the uterus, but that we were designed with that ability. the point i'm trying to make here, is that whenever something is explained, the ID explination just steps back a bit. To new, further unexplained things.




Quote Originally Posted by LuxAeterna View Post
If you did, then you would never get anywhere. If there were an infinite number of steps to get to point B, then there would always be an infinite number of steps to make before reaching point B. Therefore, you would never reach it. Thus, our universe has to have an ultimate beginning. The chain of causation has to stop somewhere, or else existence would never be able to arrive at this point.[/b]
I did not know that the universe had a point B, so to speak, to reach. Now you imply that the universe was created for a purpose, (assuming it was created). However, if all that exists is either, the universe, or, God/Designer, what purpose might that be? Nothing we, or anything else for that matter, do, would have any meaning at all except to the designer. So lets assume for the sake of the point I'm making that "he" created the universe to learn something. He would then have a need or want to learn that lesson. Where would he apply this lesson. His universe? If so then he must have created our universe from his universe, thus making our universe less complex than his. Now if this new universe exists as well, how complex is it? Was it designed as well.

I guess my final question for you's guys is if there is a designer, where is he? As in, how can he exist outside our universe, or does he exist inside it. In which case it would've existed before him.