Thread: I Refuse To Bow Down To An All Powerful God

Christian God says over and over that slavery is OK.

If God knows everything, and created everything, he created us atheists just so we could burn in hell forever.

And a million other examples.

LucidDreamGod, it's almost like you read my mind; I started to post a reply in another thread how I will never understand how people can love this God of theirs. If I did believe in God, I would think he was the biggest jack-off possible and tell him to shove it, I don't want any part of his kind of "love".

moonbeam you are such a beast! haha

i agree completely with your views. glad to know i'm not the only one

Originally Posted by hellopotato

moonbeam you are such a beast! haha
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Thanks. I guess we're just committing the one unforgivable sin left and right here...would anyone like to join us?

hmmm...but which God are you talking about?

since a lot of atheists use the old bearded man in a cloud argument, is it the omnipresent God or the old-bearded man God, or both?

It's like Atheists are forming their own religion nowadays.

I don't understand the question - if God were real how could you be an atheist?
It would be like saying 'I don't believe in reality'.

In order to know he were real you would have to see him - in which case earned respect would depend on what he showed you, and the given respect would depend on what you were capable of seeing.

Most of the problems I see people having with spirituality are not based on a personal experience of the divine but rather are reactions to other people's interpretation of it. I can understand the frustration when countless atrocities (and even lesser evils such as material attachment leading to the pillage of the Earth's resources and the exploitation of people) are committed daily by religious people. That's where I get pissed. I'm only an atheist when asked about it by a fundamentalist i.e. I dont believe God as defined by crazy people.

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

I don't understand the question - if God were real how could you be an atheist?
It would be like saying 'I don't believe in reality'.

In order to know he were real you would have to see him - in which case earned respect would depend on what he showed you, and the given respect would depend on what you were capable of seeing.

Most of the problems I see people having with spirituality are not based on a personal experience of the divine but rather are reactions to other people's interpretation of it. I can understand the frustration when countless atrocities (and even lesser evils such as material attachment leading to the pillage of the Earth's resources and the exploitation of people) are committed daily by religious people. That's where I get pissed. I'm only an atheist when asked about it by a fundamentalist i.e. I dont believe God as defined by crazy people.
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It doesn't matter what he is, if you claim he invented morals then he should have been able to fix these things, it doesn't matter if gods some old man, or some force, this is mostly for the christian god however since he is the one most people beleive in.

Your saying I would still be an atheist if I were shown god, that is not true.

he could show me stuff that would gain my respect, he could bring world peace and end world hunger, and get red of disease

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

This may seem alittle extremist of me but I wouldn't respect god if he were real.

All christians know he created the world and changed it, they cannot deny that he has lost this ability because he is all powerful, god refuses to help dieing children each day, babys are born each day with disease's (horses are born with hay feaver), people starve all acrossed the world from lack of food, and I could murder all 6 billion humens and say I was sorry to god, and at the same time deny the holy spirit (which I have done) and never be forgivin.

I refuse to except that women are any less superier then men, if god gave us free will why is womens place in the world decided for them?

I refuse to bow down to a god who uses fear tactics such as hell, to get us to join christianity, it is mental abuse, as well as physical, they say we have a choice but the real thing is that god is saying hey you'd better believe in me, even though millions of people tell you that evolution is true, I still somehow expect you to beleive in creationism.

There are many more, please feel free to add them to the list, don't be afraid of admiting your disrespect if you ask for forgivness you go straight to heaven, in less you have denied the holy spirit like me, in which case you can do whatever and it still won't matter

EDIT: oh yeah theres the fact that he created people like me with the desire (because of the reasons above) to rebel against him
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God never lost His ability. There is more good in the world than evil (more peace than war), but most people dont take note of this. Also, God is not responsible for evil, evil-doers are. Simply because God hasnt stopped this yet does not mean he never will (indeed He will, but He is biding His time so that many may come to repentance). Also, if you do not believe in a moral standard (being an atheist), your argument presupposes God. How do you know starving children is a bad situation? You have no moral code, so I really am under no obligation to respond to your objections. Men are not superior to women, women simply have a different function. I have stated this in another post. God does not try to scare you to repentance, Hell is a fulfillment of free will. It would be unsovereign of God to force you to spend eternity with Him (because you clearly hate Him), so He sends those who reject Him to a realm where He does not dwell (which is what Hell is). Also, much "evidence" for evolution is simply a matter of interpretation (such as DNA evidence, if our DNA is almost indistinguishable from that of a chimp, does that mean we evolved? Not necessarily, I could say the reason we have such similiar DNA is because we share a common creator). Simply because evolution shows itself to be a possibilty doesnt make it an actual occurance. You may say, "simply because Jesus could have existed doesnt mean he did". This is a different scenerio because we have eyewitness testimony of Christ (unlike evolution). God did not create you, your parents did (Traducianism).

Originally Posted by bwick

God never lost His ability. There is more good in the world than evil (more peace than war), but most people dont take note of this. Also, God is not responsible for evil, evil-doers are. Simply because God hasnt stopped this yet does not mean he never will (indeed He will, but He is biding His time so that many may come to repentance). Also, if you do not believe in a moral standard (being an atheist), your argument presupposes God. How do you know starving children is a bad situation? You have no moral code, so I really am under no obligation to respond to your objections. Men are not superior to women, women simply have a different function. I have stated this in another post. God does not try to scare you to repentance, Hell is a fulfillment of free will. It would be unsovereign of God to force you to spend eternity with Him (because you clearly hate Him), so He sends those who reject Him to a realm where He does not dwell (which is what Hell is). Also, much "evidence" for evolution is simply a matter of interpretation (such as DNA evidence, if our DNA is almost indistinguishable from that of a chimp, does that mean we evolved? Not necessarily, I could say the reason we have such similiar DNA is because we share a common creator). Simply because evolution shows itself to be a possibilty doesnt make it an actual occurance. You may say, "simply because Jesus could have existed doesnt mean he did". This is a different scenerio because we have eyewitness testimony of Christ (unlike evolution). God did not create you, your parents did (Traducianism).
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First god is outside of time, he can do a million things in one secound of he were there, you keep saying I don't have any moral standards but I have said many times that I do, and I don't need a god to tell me what to do, reather women have a diffrent function or not, it is not there choice mens function is to own the family and to live over everything, it's said many times we will burn in the lake of fire. (I do not hate him, do you hate everyone you disrespect, I would respect him if he were to take responsibility for this world) well if god did not create me why should I beleive he is my creater, because he is not, you are suggesting that humens got evil the further they went from gods creation (adam and eve) I recall someplace that he made adam and eve with out judgment of evil and good (morals) they learned them when they ate the fruit off of the tree, but god made the fruit of evil, he could have took it away, and only showed them good.

I would refuse to worship the Christian God - or any god for that matter - if he existed, but I would respect him despite that. I would not be too emotionally moved if he had decided to let millions upon millions die altough being able to create happiness instead.

If the Christian or Muslim or any of those tyrant gods were real, I would rather go to hell as a martyr of rationality and respect for everyone, instead of mistreating half the people for lame or no reason.

Originally Posted by bwick

How do you know starving children is a bad situation? You have no moral code...[/b]

I think that sentence speaks for itself regarding who has no moral code.

Originally Posted by bwick

hmmm...but which God are you talking about?
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Yours.

you dont know my God, and you misunderstood bwicks statment. he was saying if there is no morality there are no bad situations, as a way of saying you have morality so it comes from something.

Chimpanzees have morality, and so do zebras. So do all other mammal classifications, although there are individual exceptions in every species. Did you know that a female zebra's father will put a potential mate through a test to decide if he approves of him? What is the most popular zebra denomination? Female mammals nurse their young. Even birds take care of their babies. It is out of natural cognitive programming, not religious indoctrination.

Originally Posted by Universal

Chimpanzees have morality, and so do zebras. So do all other mammal classifications, although there are individual exceptions in every species. Did you know that a female zebra's father will put a potential mate through a test to decide if he approves of him? What is the most popular zebra denomination? Female mammals nurse their young. Even birds take care of their babies. It is out of natural cognitive programming, not religious indoctrination.
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in my religious point of view, I was implying that morality IS natural - not from a religion - since God didn't create religions. of course, we could also say the more complex the intelligence the more complex the morality. and since human beings are very complex, its only natural that our sense of morality has become very complex itself, forming laws, doctrines, and religions throughout mankinds history.

I think this is pretty funny and I don't think that you are being honest with yourself. IF God really exists and he/she/it actually presented itself to you, I seriously doubt you would even be able to comprehend it. If God pulled you aside and explained why everything exists and how it all works, what your purpose is.... etc. You would not be able to comprehend it. And I seriously doubt you would disrespect it.

It doesn't sound like you have a problem with "An All Powerful God" as you say, it sounds like your problem is with "Christianity". Your problem is with a system of belief, not with some all powerful creator.

Again, you sound very set in your ways and I doubt you will accept what I am saying. I am no expert on Athieism, but I am pretty sure it is against all beliefs in God but you only seem to be attacking Christian beliefs.

Let's say that there is an "All Powerful God" that created everything... absolutely everything. (not that I necessarily believe or disbelieve this) If the Universe is even close to as big as we all think that it is that would make you EXTREMELY INSIGNIFICANT. Why should God care any more about you or the 6 billion people on the earth than you care about all of the bacteria and microbes on your own body? You don't bat an eye when you wash your hands with antibacterial soap because bacteria is just that insignificant. Well, we most likely... are just as insignificant.

So, being that we are so utterly insignificant I would probably lose my mind if I were brought face to face with the one being that created it all and it actually acknowledged my existence.

hey just wanted to say I like you sig, that guy was a lot of fun and made some wild threads huh?

Originally Posted by juroara

hey just wanted to say I like you sig, that guy was a lot of fun and made some wild threads huh?
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Yeah he did. He certainly kept this place entertaining.

Originally Posted by carlhungis

I think this is pretty funny and I don't think that you are being honest with yourself. IF God really exists and he/she/it actually presented itself to you, I seriously doubt you would even be able to comprehend it. If God pulled you aside and explained why everything exists and how it all works, what your purpose is.... etc. You would not be able to comprehend it. And I seriously doubt you would disrespect it.

It doesn't sound like you have a problem with "An All Powerful God" as you say, it sounds like your problem is with "Christianity". Your problem is with a system of belief, not with some all powerful creator.

Again, you sound very set in your ways and I doubt you will accept what I am saying. I am no expert on Athieism, but I am pretty sure it is against all beliefs in God but you only seem to be attacking Christian beliefs.

Let's say that there is an "All Powerful God" that created everything... absolutely everything. (not that I necessarily believe or disbelieve this) If the Universe is even close to as big as we all think that it is that would make you EXTREMELY INSIGNIFICANT. Why should God care any more about you or the 6 billion people on the earth than you care about all of the bacteria and microbes on your own body? You don't bat an eye when you wash your hands with antibacterial soap because bacteria is just that insignificant. Well, we most likely... are just as insignificant.

So, being that we are so utterly insignificant I would probably lose my mind if I were brought face to face with the one being that created it all and it actually acknowledged my existence.
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I understand what your saying, but christians speak of an all loving god, right now I bet you there are at least 1000 humens praying to god now, how does he listen to them all, he is outside of time and knows everything thats going to happen, and he doesn't change it, if god were to explain that he wasn't all that powerful and he couldn't mess with creation anymore because he had lost the ability then I would respect him, but you all speak of a god who's so powerful and who is outside of time, and who claims to be all loving but sends people to a place (even were he doesn't reside) if we don't beleive in him, what is the point of the bible verse in the bvible if it's impossible to do,god tells us stuff we won't even need to know, you could look at anything in the bible and say it was jesus talking to the jews, or that doesn't iply after jesus's was killed, or that is impossible for humens to do, you can't just say whatever you want, I could say the whole book was jesus talking to the jews, and non of it aplyed after jesus got killed, and it's all impossible to follow.

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

I understand what your saying, but christians speak of an all loving god, right now I bet you there are at least 1000 humens praying to god now, how does he listen to them all, he is outside of time and knows everything thats going to happen, and he doesn't change it, if god were to explain that he wasn't all that powerful and he couldn't mess with creation anymore because he had lost the ability then I would respect him, but you all[size=3] speak of a god who's so powerful and who is outside of time, and who claims to be all loving but sends people to a place (even were he doesn't reside) if we don't beleive in him, what is the point of the bible verse in the bvible if it's impossible to do,god tells us stuff we won't even need to know, you could look at anything in the bible and say it was jesus talking to the jews, or that doesn't iply after jesus's was killed, or that is impossible for humens to do, you can't just say whatever you want, I could say the whole book was jesus talking to the jews, and non of it aplyed after jesus got killed, and it's all impossible to follow.
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Again, you are not speaking against some random "All powerful god". You are speaking against Christianity. I don't understand why you have this particular problem with Christianity and not with... Islam, Judaism... etc. There is a lot of the world that believes in God but they are not necessarily Christian.

I agree with you in the fact that some (if not most) of Christian belief can and should be questioned. But you are saying that you refuse to bow down to an all powerful god, when in reality you are saying that you refuse to bow down to Christianity. This thread title has nothing to do with what you are saying.

Originally Posted by carlhungis

Again, you are not speaking against some random "All powerful god". You are speaking against Christianity. I don't understand why you have this particular problem with Christianity and not with... Islam, Judaism... etc. There is a lot of the world that believes in God but they are not necessarily Christian.

I agree with you in the fact that some (if not most) of Christian belief can and should be questioned. But you are saying that you refuse to bow down to an all powerful god, when in reality you are saying that you refuse to bow down to Christianity. This thread title has nothing to do with what you are saying.
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You assume I'm talking about christianity, I never said christianity, I might have used examples from it, mostly because I have never seen a muslim on here, if there were people who beleived in santa as an all powerful god I would use examples dealing with him, once again I'm not speaking against christianity I'm speaking against an all powerful god, and you assume that I'm talking about christianity as a whole.

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

You assume I'm talking about christianity, I never said christianity, I might have used examples from it, mostly because I have never seen a muslim on here, if there were people who beleived in santa as an all powerful god I would use examples dealing with him, once again I'm not speaking against christianity I'm speaking against an all powerful god, and you assume that I'm talking about christianity as a whole.
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Your only refrences have been complaints about the bible and christianity. From what I read, you are simply out for attention. I think that maybe you resent having religion forced on you or something along those lines.

If you will not respect something that somehow was able to create EVERYTHING, then what is it that you do respect. Since this all powerful god created everything and you do not respect him/her/it, then you must not respect anything.

I will say it again, all you have done is complain about christianity.

Don't bother responding to this because I see that there will be no actual exchange of ideas and I am done replying.

Originally Posted by carlhungis

Your only refrences have been complaints about the bible and christianity. From what I read, you are simply out for attention. I think that maybe you resent having religion forced on you or something along those lines.

If you will not respect something that somehow was able to create EVERYTHING, then what is it that you do respect. Since this all powerful god created everything and you do not respect him/her/it, then you must not respect anything.

I will say it again, all you have done is complain about christianity.

Don't bother responding to this because I see that there will be no actual exchange of ideas and I am done replying.
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yeah, I am complaining to the all powerful god, I didn't make this thread to debate, I made it so I could make point that if there were a god he either isn't all perfect and powerful or he has no sense of whats bad and whats good, and he doesn't take his time, even though he has infinite time, he doesn't put food into starving peoples mouths, so yes I am complaining.

Originally Posted by carlhungis

Again, you are not speaking against some random "All powerful god". You are speaking against Christianity. I don't understand why you have this particular problem with Christianity and not with... Islam, Judaism... etc. There is a lot of the world that believes in God but they are not necessarily Christian.
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They're all pretty much the same, right? Old testament God. Of course this sort of conversation goes towards that god and not Zeus or Thor, because that is what most people are familiar with, as well as being the most powerful and obnoxious god of all time. The conversation woud be kind of boring if the topic was "If Isis exists, don't you think she sucks?" It's all that horrible shit the Christian-Jewish-Muslim God supposedly did, and the fact that most people still think it's so good, that is the point.

As has been pointed out in other threads, no-one ever defends the indefensible crap in the bible, such as slavery is OK (God and Jesus), it's OK to kill your enemies men and enslave the women (God at least 4 times), beat your kids, stone the witches and the non-believers, etc. etc. etc. Much less the endless suffering of people thru the ages, except to claim it is a "good learning experience". Bullshit, your god is monster. So make up your own, right? Which is what most people do anyway.

(I use the example of the bible because that's what I know most about. I don't say Vishnu or Krishna are jerks because I don't know anything about them, but they probably are too.)