Thread: theta brainwave wild advice

Ok. First off I would like to say hello to all here at Dreamviews. I realize that there is a specific section dedicated to greetings, but I thought that I may as well wrap my introduction in with my first actual post anyway. I apologize if this is a long, winded message, but at times it may be hard for me to think of how to properly express everything in words. lol. So before I get to the real question, I thought I should put a little bit of history. I have been practicing and trying to get into the Theta brainwave state for a while. I have dealt with everything from lucid dreams to meditation and practiced both for a while, but my main goal has been and still is to reach the deep Theta brainwave state.
Not only is this a perfect state to lead into lucid dreams, but also access other psychic facilities(remote viewing, OBE's, etc). I have been meditating for some time also, and have used various forms of brainwave entrainment CD's to little or no effect. Well recently I read Jeff's tutorial on here about "Freefalling into chaos" to reach sp, and I thought "Gee. That sounds pretty similar to the meditation of watching your thoughts" especially considering having a WILD is basically just a form of meditation anyway in which you reach the Theta brainwaves and simply drift off to sleep aware, so I had the idea that I would combine them somehow.
So I laid down in my bed last night(I know, I know, having OBE's and Lucid Dreams is a LOT harder at night, but I was more trying to meditate and if I fell asleep, so be it) and began listening to a brainwave entrainment track. I began to passively watch my thoughts. I usually have a big problem with music being stuck in my head, but I just continued to passively hear the music. Ocassionately, it would jumble together or go off track and I would just continue to watch passively. I was expecting to begin to see chaotic thoughts like Jeff explains in his tutorial, as I have experienced those before, but instead, the thoughts just continued to roll in. Suprisingly enough though, I went much deeper into relaxation than ever before thought! I even got to partial sleep paralysis for my first time ever! I was amazed that I had actually gone this deep, but what confuses me is that, even though i felt the unmistakable presence of the "lead blanket" over certain parts of my body, which would indicate a deep Theta(or at least ANY Theta) state, I still had plenty of thoughts rolling in that I was watching passively. Mostly the SAME DAMNED SONG that had been tearing my skull in two for the last hour.
My thought process was definitely slowed, but I thought that at deep Theta(which SP would normally signal) that the majority, if not ALL thoughts would have ceased. Not only that, but I never experienced any truly chaotic thoughts. I have before, but only when I was truly drifting off into unaware sleep. And to top it all off, I experienced NO hypnagogics or visualizations! Neither visual nor audiol. I felt very deep, but was still aware of my(partially paralyzed) body and still had fresh thoughts coming in that I was watching go by all the while. I've never been so close to my goal of Theta before, but I guess what confuses me is that, even though it seemed in some ways like I had accomplished my goal, I was missing most of the other signs of Theta. The partial sp didn't last long at all, and as quickly as it came, it had left. I don't KNOW FOR SURE if it was really sp or not because I didn't try to move because I didn't wanna screw up everything. lol. but I definitely had that lead blanket feeling, and the rest of my body was numb or very heavy. So its like I somehow was in sp without Theta. I guess my reason for posting and my question would be if anybody knows whether or not that could be Theta state, and if so, how can I get the hypnagogics and real effects of it. When I tried to let the sp take over completely, it just went away. I tried relaxing in to it, but to no avail. I'm REALLY excited I got so far into it, but yet stumped as to why most of the symptoms were missing. If anyone has any advice(besides keep practicing, which is a given. lol) or light to shed on the subject, I'd be very greatful.
Phew. That was long, but I appreciate all who took the time to read my rambling and can provide some support.

Welcome to the forum!

Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and move this to the Introduction Zone after I reply to this but first let's see if we can offer any words of advice.

Did you ever fall asleep at all? I don't recall you mentioning any dreams.

Let's go over Theta frequencies:

Stage N1 refers to the transition of the brain from alpha waves having a frequency of 8–13 Hz (common in the awake state) to theta waves having a frequency of 4–7 Hz. This stage is sometimes referred to as somnolence or drowsy sleep. Sudden twitches and hypnic jerks, also known as positive myoclonus, may be associated with the onset of sleep during N1. Some people may also experience hypnagogic hallucinations during this stage. During N1, the subject loses some muscle tone and most conscious awareness of the external environment.

And this:

Cycling at Night

In healthy adults, sleep typically begins with NREM sleep. The pattern of clear rhythmic alpha activity associated with wakefulness gives way to N1, the first stage of sleep, which is defined by a low-voltage, mixed-frequency pattern. The transition from wakefulness to N1 occurs seconds to minutes after the start of the slow eye movements seen when a person first begins to nod off. This first period of N1 typically lasts just one to seven minutes. The second stage, or N2, which is signaled by sleep spindles and/or K complexes in the EEG recording, comes next and generally lasts 10 to 25 minutes. As N2 sleep progresses, there is a gradual appearance of the high-voltage, slow-wave activity characteristic of N3, the third stage of NREM sleep. This stage, which generally lasts 20 to 40 minutes, is referred to as "slow-wave," "delta," or "deep" sleep. As NREM sleep progresses, the brain becomes less responsive to external stimuli, and it becomes increasingly difficult to awaken an individual from sleep.

Because of a historical accident, the term "theta rhythm" is used to refer to two different phenomena, "hippocampal theta" and "human cortical theta". Both of these are oscillatory EEG patterns, but they may have little in common beyond the name "theta"

Thus, "theta" can mean either of two things:
1.A specific type of regular oscillation seen in the hippocampus and several other brain regions connected to it.
2.EEG oscillations in the 4–7 Hz frequency range, regardless of where in the brain they occur or what their functional significance is.

The first meaning is usually intended in literature that deals with rats or mice, while the second meaning is usually intended in studies of human EEG recorded using electrodes glued to the scalp. In general, it is not safe to assume that observations of "theta" in the human EEG have any relationship to the "hippocampal theta rhythm". Scalp EEG is generated almost entirely by the cerebral cortex, and even if it falls into a certain frequency range, this cannot be taken to indicate that it has any functional dependence on the hippocampus.

Most of the available information on human hippocampal theta comes from a few small studies of epileptic patients with intracranially implanted electrodes used as part of a treatment plan. In the largest and most systematic of these studies, Cantero et al. (2003) found that oscillations in the 4–7 Hz frequency range could be recorded from both the hippocampus and neocortex. The hippocampal oscillations were associated with REM sleep and the transition from sleep to waking, and came in brief bursts, usually less than a second long. Cortical theta oscillations were observed during the transition from sleep and during quiet wakefulness; however, the authors were unable to find any correlation between hippocampal and cortical theta waves, and concluded that the two processes are probably controlled by independent mechanisms.

There are a lot of websites out there for inducing the "Theta" state during meditation and some even refer to achieving it at regular intervals throughout the day, though it doesn't seem to occur for longer than a few seconds while awake or even during the hypnotic state. Most of these websites are of questionable reputation, mainly offering meditative music or other relaxation methods for a profit, and rarely refer to real scientific material other than repeated use of the word "theta."

N1 sleep (when we experience theta waves) typically only lasts 1 to 7 minutes at most and we often transition through theta fairly quickly. Longer periods of N1 occur later in our sleep periods, closer to morning waking.

It's unlikely you will get to spend time in "theta" but your efforts are very good for relaxing your body and reducing stress prior to sleeping. This in itself may help you achieve WILD more easily, and if nothing else will make for healthy and restorative sleep. Can't go wrong with that.

I guess my reason for posting and my question would be if anybody knows whether or not that could be Theta state, and if so, how can I get the hypnagogics and real effects of it. When I tried to let the sp take over completely, it just went away. I tried relaxing in to it, but to no avail. I'm REALLY excited I got so far into it, but yet stumped as to why most of the symptoms were missing. If anyone has any advice(besides keep practicing, which is a given. lol) or light to shed on the subject, I'd be very greatful.

I always found this to be most enjoyable and entertaining after having one night of shortened sleep followed by a WBTB attempt on the second or third day. I also found it easier to experience while sitting reclined in a chair (like a soft one in the living room) versus lying down in bed. Something about lying down in bed where I sleep every night makes this harder. Picture your dad falling asleep in a soft lounger in front of the TV...sometimes the most vivid dreams occur when you fall asleep somewhere you're not accustomed to. It seems to heighten awareness.

Hope that helps. I am glad you made it to the forum and look forward to more lengthy posts from you!

Thank you very much for the lengthy informed reply. I guess I didn't know as much about Theta as I thought. lol. And yes, the majority are just trying to push a product for themselves by labelling Theta, but it is true that with meditation/wild, you can lower your dominant frequency to 4-7 though, am I right? That was the main thing I was wondering. It seemed I was falling asleep without even going through Theta. I hope to be able to gain the ability to go to Theta and from there, access hypnagogics to do things like Wild, remote view, obe, etc. And I know it all comes from SP but from what I got, I just had partial sp without any actual visuals. Do you think it was all in my mind, or I may have really been in Theta, just without the corresponding signs? And only once or twice when I was watching my thoughts did I accidentally follow them and drift off. Both times I noticed quickly and reset myself back on the path, but both times when I had done that, I was indeed deeper than before so I suppose that may have helped. lol And sorry for posting it in the wrong spot. I just wasn't sure if this belonged in the introduction because of the Theta and wild stuff but then again, I'm new here so I probably don't know as much as I thought I did. :panic

In controlled studies of Zen monks and masters, the Zen masters who attain theta brainwave activity, are breathing at a slower rate than ordinary subjects who are emitting alpha waves during meditation. If an ordinary person takes say 50 breaths from point x to y, a Zen master takes only 20 breaths from point x to y. A technique Zen monks use to slow down breathing, is to practice a rapid inhale through your nose, and then a long slow exhale out your nose. When you exhale you visualize a feather on the tip of your nose that you don't want to disturb. So that out breath is so slow it is almost non existant. I had a WILD/OBE only 2 months after practicing the Zazen style meditation, only I cheat and do it with my eyes closed, unlike the traditional Zen way of eyes open. It is the empty mind style meditation that I think helped for my success. You can practice this breath techneque even while you do the dishes, it's simple and effective. Good luck with reaching theta waves, and I'll also add that only the Zen masters could reach that level, although anyone can be taught, and over time master it as well.

In Zen masters achieving greater theta activity is still a process that occurs while awake, and the limited time spent there is unlikely to be beneficial to lucid dreaming in someone who hasn't spent 20+ years meditating.

As for theta while sleeping, or entering dream states, it will occur and pass naturally, and with few effects.


I was hard-pressed to find something decent on theta and Zen monks. What I found, published in the Journal Of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, suggests that they receive many health benefits from their deep relaxation techniques (as would be expected) but indicates nothing for the world of dreaming.

Zen meditation: an integration of cu... [J Altern Complement Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

J Altern Complement Med. 2009 May;15(5):585-92.

Zen meditation: an integration of current evidence.

Chiesa A.


Source

Institute of Psychiatry, University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy. [email protected]


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

Despite the growing interest in the neurobiological and clinical correlates of many meditative practices, in particular mindfulness meditations, no review has specifically focused on current evidence on electroencephalographic, neuroimaging, biological, and clinical evidence about an important traditional practice, Zen meditation.

METHODS:

A literature search was conducted using MEDLINE, the ISI Web of Knowledge, the Cochrane collaboration database, and references of selected articles. Randomized controlled and cross-sectional studies with controls published in English prior to May 2008 were included.

RESULTS:

Electroencephalographic studies on Zen meditation found increased alpha and theta activity, generally related to relaxation, in many brain regions, including the frontal cortex. Theta activity in particular seemed to be related to the degree of experience, being greater in expert practitioners and advanced masters. Moreover, Zen meditation practice could protect from cognitive decline usually associated with age and enhance antioxidant activity. From a clinical point of view, Zen meditation was found to reduce stress and blood pressure, and be efficacious for a variety of conditions, as suggested by positive findings in therapists and musicians.

CONCLUSION:

To date, actual evidence about Zen meditation is scarce and highlights the necessity of further investigations. Comparison with further active treatments, explanation of possible mechanisms of action, and the limitations of current evidence are discussed

So, as I said above,

It's unlikely you will get to spend time in "theta" but your efforts are very good for relaxing your body and reducing stress prior to sleeping. This in itself may help you achieve WILD more easily, and if nothing else will make for healthy and restorative sleep. Can't go wrong with that.

Thank you guys for your helpful posts. For some odd reason, my browser keeps blocking certain pieces of your posts with a 404 error. Only certain parts though, so I can still get the gist and info. If yall know anything thats up with that, it'd be nice to know. lol. Yes. I realize it may be difficult, but I've never felt closer to reaching my goal. And if it isn't specifically Theta, I'd like to get to MABA at least, which should serve the same purpose. I've also had the good habit of leaving helpfull self suggestions and anchors whenever I'm in this deep state as well so hopefully that will help me get deeper and deeper continuously. lol Either way, I'm so close I can practically taste it. And I'm going to find this state of mind and achieve my goal no matter what. I appreciate the help and I know now(as if I DIDN'T know before. lol) that this community is probably going to be the tipping point to get me there quicker and more efficiently than ever.

And I also assumed that if you were in MABA, that you were automatically in Theta. This seems to be the majority view among things I have seen and read, but I suppose that since our brains constantly shuffle between all waves, that this might not be true. lol




-Merged by Sivason-

Originally Posted by jbtaylor

......The partial sp didn't last long at all, and as quickly as it came, it had left. I don't KNOW FOR SURE if it was really sp or not because I didn't try to move because I didn't wanna screw up everything. lol. but I definitely had that lead blanket feeling, and the rest of my body was numb or very heavy. D

Good for you! Here is a point I often make about SP. For most people SP while aware in WILD feels exactly like you describe. It is no more complex than that! You can and will be able to break the SP state by trying to move, so do not move! SP is not something you test to make sure. Get that lead blanket feeling, know you are in SP and move on to other things. If you decided to try and move you would be setting yourself back, so good job, keep it up!

Thank you Sivason. Yea. That's pretty much the first thing that came to mind was "OMG! Here comes sleep paralysis! YES! Booya! I should test it and make sure...no, wait! Don't move or you'll screw it up" lol, but I think I may have activated my mind a wee bit too much. I came very close again tonight, but not quite as close as last time. This time the feeling of SP stayed even less and was less noticeable. Any advice on maybe how to throw myself fully into SP when I'm that close? It seems like relaxing into it doesn't work as easily for me as I'd hoped. Lmao. Also, it gets REALLY hard for me to clear my mind and continue focusing/meditating as well. I constantly have mind chatter going on.

Oh yea. Almost forgot to mention. I did have some more interesting experiences though, even though I didn't get to SP. At a point when my thoughts were calmed down and my mind was clear, I did have a bright white flash over my closed eyelids a few times while doing energy work on my third. Supposedly the white flashes are sudden points of your third eye opening, but they didn't last and all I got besides that were some very very vague HI that were equally short. Lol. So it seems like I'm going from one thing to another. Lol. Oh well. I know all this practice and experience has to be doing SOME good....I hope. Lol

3'rd eye.


Edit: Merged by Sivason

jbtaylor, I just merged 3 of your posts into one. A rule on here is if you posted last, then use edit post to add more to your prior post, so you do not have 2 or more posts in a row

With luck you only feel yourself enter SP and then are in it and do not need to 'feel it.' You will know if it worked because after it starts you should have less than say 30% awareness of your body. Try not to even focus on that as you want to forget your body.

Have you heard of DVA? Dream Views Acadamy. It is a sub-forum with classes. I teach the Dream Yoga class, and it is all about mental mastery. I will post a link.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f157/sivas...-first-131397/

It is real high end mental yoga, so do not plan on it being easy! The whole course when complete is designed to take about a year. Even if you just pick one or two items to work on, you will learn to master your mind a little and learn to calm your thoughts. Good Luck!

Oops. Sorry about that. Won't happen again. Lol. I didn't even know I could merge my posts. And yea, I was thinking that maybe my awareness springing up was probably what destroyed the SP as it was coming. And know, I didn't know about that. I've never looked into Yoga and didn't even know about dream yoga. Seems like it will be really helpful though, at this point, I don't expect anything to really be easy. Lol I'm definitely gonna give it a shot though. Thank you. Who knows. This could be just what it takes.