Thread: The 2012 'Paradigm Shift.' Is it in its beginning stages?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

It IS to examine all of the theories and try to make the variables fit, because it is the only way to actually and empirically put the theories to the test, in the coming 2 years.

But you realize that by doing so, you will mold a whole bunch of coincidences and unusual events that have no correlation (besides in your mind) to corroborate your preconceived notion? This is almost the dictionary definition of confirmation bias, and is a very poor way of conducting an investigation.

Also here you say that you want to empirically test the validity of these beliefs, but later on you say that you're not interested in their scientific plausibility... so I remain 100% confused on what you're trying to do.

I didn't "believe" her, even before I knew that the deadline for the theory was back in 2003. Why are you asking me this?

Because you seem intent on ignoring the credibility of this woman, but you know as well as I do that you wouldn't believe her because she is batshit insane .

I'm just trying to get an amalgamation of things that could be misconstrued as things that validate the 2012 theory, when taken together.

This is probably the biggest flaw in the thread. There is no 2012 theory, only the end of the Mayan calendar. The Mayan December 31st if you will (only much more significant), but no associated prophecies. All these beliefs have come within the last century, from people trying to attribute meaning to a rather mystical date (not unlike yourself). With nothing to work with, you can attribute absolutely anything you want to 2012, therefore what's the point?

Originally Posted by Jeff777

What woman are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge, Nibiru wasn't an idea orchestrated by any particular person. From what I understand the Sumerian tablets were deciphered and it speaks about a planet named Nibiru.



Then again, sites like Sitchin Is Wrong help offer opposing views for what sitchin largely spent his life researching.

Nancy Lieder

Originally Posted by Spartiate

But you realize that by doing so, you will mold a whole bunch of coincidences and unusual events that have no correlation (besides in your mind) to corroborate your preconceived notion?

*clears throat and picks up megaphone*
"YES!"

But I must ask, what is my preconceived notion?
(Rhetorical question, seeing as how I don't have one. I am simply playing with ideas.)

Originally Posted by Spart

This is almost the dictionary definition of confirmation bias, and is a very poor way of conducting an investigation.

Were this an actual, serious "investigation," this would bother me. But it's not. So it doesn't. Apparently, I took the OP much less seriously than some of you. Maybe it's my fault. Maybe I just didn't put enough thought into how some of the most notorious skeptics were going to interpret it. Hindsight is 20/20, you know. As I said before, this is just playing with the most popular theories, to see how closely upcoming events can be interpreted as having to do with them. I'm Not Trying To Prove Them Right, with any sense of seriousness. It can be taken as no more than an attempt to see what events the theorists might try to explain away as being a part of their "Armageddon/Paradigm/Rapture" interpretations. I honestly didn't think that I was going to be spending this much time defending this thread, as if I'm genuinely trying to prove those interpretations right. It is a Game; a playful thought experiment. I thought it might be kind of fun and interesting, but I gotta say that I'm kind of over it now. If I haven't been able to sufficiently convey the light-heartedness of this thread, by now, it was probably a bad idea to begin with. So whatever.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Also here you say that you want to empirically test the validity of these beliefs, but later on you say that you're not interested in their scientific plausibility... so I remain 100% confused on what you're trying to do.

Empirically testing the validity of the beliefs would have been a byproduct of throwing all of the coincidences and unusual events that could (even loosely) be related to the most popular theories into the thread, and see how they develop over time, if at all. Apparently, this is impossible to understand, and I'm tired of explaining it. Forget it.

Originally Posted by Spart

Because you seem intent on ignoring the credibility of this woman, but you know as well as I do that you wouldn't believe her because she is batshit insane .

And I've explained why I am ignoring it. I've come to the conclusion that either It's not coming out right, or it's not sinking in.

Originally Posted by Spart

This is probably the biggest flaw in the thread. There is no 2012 theory, only the end of the Mayan calendar. The Mayan December 31st if you will (only much more significant), but no associated prophecies. All these beliefs have come within the last century, from people trying to attribute meaning to a rather mystical date (not unlike yourself). With nothing to work with, you can attribute absolutely anything you want to 2012, therefore what's the point?

The point is that it was supposed to be in fun - a chance to play with the possibilities, without turning it into a serious friggin' debate on whether the wild claims have solid bases. The Don't. And It's Obvious. I understand that the end of the Mayan calendar is the only thing that is ACTUALLY supposed to happen. This was supposed to just be a task to humor some of the fringe theories/interpretations that have come after those initial misinterpretations. That's all. But I can see that this isn't going to go down, the way I intended, because some people are just so intent on falsifying wild claims, even when it's been explicitly stated was that the whole point was to play along with them. Knee-jerk reactions abound.

To be honest, I figured it might be met with a little more open-mindedness, in Inner Sanctum. I should have known better. It feels kind of lame to invoke Inception on this, but I suddenly feel like Eames, commenting on how Aurthur is the best at what he does, but has no imagination. (Refer to Sig.)

But I'm tired. Maybe I'll play around with this a little more, later on, but for right now, this thread can pretty much fizzle and die for all I care...

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

They Don't. And It's Obvious.

Not to many people! Especially in inner sanctum of all places, I had no reason to expect otherwise...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Not to many people! Especially in inner sanctum of all places, I had no reason to expect otherwise...

And what better place would there be to get genuine input/information about the topic (rather than the constant attempts to try to disprove/dissent against the whole thing, which I knew was inevitable), than an area frequented by people who are most likely to believe some of those theories?

It's cool. Forget about it...

This is sort of like saying why would you read/write a fiction book. BECAUSE IT'S FUN!
So stop your skepticism for the sake of fun, please.

Sarah Palin will be elected as president of the USA.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I mean you can look at all the "predictions"

There is only ONE prediction. The REAL prediction that is being spoken through the living Mayans, represented by Cirilo Perez Oxlaj, highest elder of the living Mayans.

What Cirilo teaches is that we live in a universe where time is cyclical, or, our lives revolve around cycles. Like the seasons, the waning and waxing of the moon. The living Mayans believe we human beings are not separate from these cycles. Just as the sun and moon influence physiological processes in the human being, the Mayans believe other and greater (in scale scope and size) celestial cycles also greatly influence human behavior, down to our evolution as a people.

An apx. 26,000 year long cycle is ending, composed of five ages. A new cycle is beginning come Dec. 21st 2012. That date is significant because, its not just the end of an apx 5000 year long age, but the larger cycle that it belongs to. These cycles aren't arbitrary or imaginary, they correlate to real celestial cycles. The Mayans believe, and not just the Mayans, that with each new age mankind has the capacity to overcome obstacles in the previous age, therefore evolving exponentially as a people.

But this new sun (its a sun cycle) that we are entering is very important. From what I understand, to living Mayans, this new sun marks a time where mankind reaches its greatest potential, and has the capacity to accomplish true global world peace, prosperity and happiness. The reason why it also marks a spiritual age for mankind is simply because none of those things are possible without a complete global paradigm shift.

Its popularly believed by historians that the Mayans just appeared not so long ago, about 2000 years ago. But Cirilo disagrees and says that their texts testify that the Mayan people were here the last time a cycle of the sun ended, apx. 26,000 years ago. Cirilo also explains that many of their ancient texts were hidden from the conquistadors, because the Mayans rightly feared the conquistadors would destroy everything. These texts were given to the Hopi. The Hopi elder has conferred with Cirilo (unless I'm crazy) and has said that yes they have kept ancient and most sacred texts hidden from us, the white mans world.

The Hopi elder also agrees with Cirilo that
1. The Hopis themselves are descendants of the Mayans
2. That the Mayans descend from a much older and ancient civilization than our historians have recognized

Cirilo believes that the reason why the living Mayans can talk about 2012 and what is going to happen is because
1. Time is cyclical, cycles repeat, certain scenarios that happened 26,000 years ago will happen again
2. And because the Mayans, or their descendants, recorded what happened the last time

Cirilo is not exactly clear on what will happen. But he has alluded:
1. The shift is already happening. While 2012 marks the beginning of the New Sun, the Shift into the New Sun has already begun!
2. To everyone waiting for doomsday, what are you waiting for? As far as Cirilo can see the world is already suffering and perishing. How much worse do you want things to get?
3. The shift will NOT happen on Dec. 21st 2012, but it will happen very fast over the course of at least a decade (of which started at least five years ago)
4. Things will happen that might "look" like bad things. But they are only bad if you choose to remain the same. The New Sun will facilitate change, and anyone who tries to hold back change will find themselves suffering (and globally if we hold back change we will perish as a race)
5. Cirilo gives us a few hints, learn to live with Mother Earth, or suffer
6. Cirilo gives us another hint, our happy future relies on the marrying of the guidance and wisdom of ancient cultures with the knowledge and science of the modern world (eagle and condor myth if you ask me!)



To answer Oneironauts question, yes I think current events completely line up with the Mayan prophesy of a New Sun, marked by a global paradigm shift hailing global peace, happiness and abundance for all.

This future is NOT possible without truth, and it is not possible without access to that truth, which is not possible if we aren't a global community. Is there a technology that gives us the capacity to act as a global community, and spread truth as a global community? I'm bloody using it right now!

I'm not saying the shift relies on the internet, but that the internet is going to be a tool for the shift. From wikileaks, to Iran 2009, to recent revolution in Egypt. There is a connection between wikileaks and the latest revolutions in the middle east. The demand for civil rights as you demand truth, understanding that tyrannical control relies on the control of information (deceit). Which is why the internet, a tool where revolutionaries can post the truth of their revolution, was so crucial. Could Egypt have prevailed, if no video could have been posted online? Sure. But not in the way it has prevailed. The struggle would have taken months, years, even decades.

The revolution in Egypt has a global resonance. It took fire spontaneously over night. It was led by the people, not by any organization. It was a successful revolution that only lasted about two 1/2 weeks! That's it! That's not even a month! Think about it! It's virtually unheard of historically!

What happened in Egypt was MODERN. M O D E R N. Its modern for so many reasons Im too lazy to talk about in this post. But modern, in this economy, also means GLOBAL!

Who here ever imagined at the start of 2011 that Egypt would have a historical revolution? No one. I repeat. NO ONE. But it happened, right?

That's what the Shift is like. Sudden. Sudden. Sudden. Sudden! Now Cirilo says we have a choice in this Shift, get on board or get run over!

Sounds like new-agers taking credit for the work of scientists to me. I guess there won't be any paradigm shift there

You can say that, or u can say that science and "new agers" have something in common.

If some wise and ancient civilization much older than us that predicted a lot of things predicted global connection 26.000 years ago i don't think u have to take that lightly and look fully into it.
To me it seems like people all over the world are starting to see the truth more clearly. People are tired of being supressed by dictators be it government dictators or economical dictators.
If humans have ancient knowledge that has been forgotten by the masses now is as good a time as ever for the rest to find out because the internet now contains this information open for everyone.

I think its important you keep an open mind for this sort of stuff because it may sound weird or crazy to you but thats also what it looks like when somebody tries to explain lucid dreaming to someone who doesn't give a shit.

This is everything Spartiate feared....

Thank you for you views, Juroara and DThoughts...

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

You can say that, or u can say that science and "new agers" have something in common.

Ok? What do they have in common?

This is typical new-age babble. It has zero content. You can say that the sky is a color. What color? Please enlighten me. From where I sit, one has an open mind and a respect for the truth. The other accepts whatever pretty sounding flotsam comes floating down the river so long as they don't have to think too hard or admit that they're wrong. Can you guess which is which?

Enough.
Thanks to everyone who at least tried to humor me and go along with the (however flimsy) direction I attempted to take this thread in. I should have known this wasn't possible. I already see what this thread is going to become, and I'm not going to sit here and watch it happen.

That's a shame, I was planning on posting. O...don't let people ruin your threads, just kick them out or delete their posts. It's your prerogative as a mod. If I hadn't closely policed my vibrational frequency thread it would have ended after the second page instead of being like 16 pages.

See...this is why we can't have nice things.

True enough.
...I'll give it some thought....

Originally Posted by Aquanina

See...this is why we can't have nice things.

Iknorite?

So this is what's going to happen:

After a few conversations with people from both sides of this (tangential) argument, in and out of PM, I've decided to re-open the thread. However, it has been shown that some hardcore skeptics (even though I sympathize with their motives) are just incapable of enough tolerance to allow such a fringe discussion to progress, without trying to destroy every single post they believe has an illogical base. So, going forward, any further detraction is just going to be deleted. I really just don't have the patience, anymore.

Since it apparently wasn't perfectly clear, on the first go-round, let me repeat: This is not a thread for debate about whether 2012 claims are logical, or have a factual base. This is a thread in which to present the most widely-held theories, and to toy with the idea that they are substantial, to see how well they fit with current events. Period.

If you are so skeptical of the whole thing - or so "offended" by the fact that some people believe in this stuff (or can pretend they do, long enough to discuss the implications) - that you simply can't play along without trying to start a fight over the subject matter, your posts will be treated as off-topic. My only advice to you would be to create your own thread, in which you can debunk the entire 2012 myth, to your heart's content. This is not that kind of thread, so save your time and energy, and don't bring it here.

For those of you who would (inevitably) like to file a complaint, you know where my PM box is.

Gah I've heard many different theories it's impossible to determine exactly what will happen. It's like looking at many different religions, all claiming to be the true way.

I've heard everything from end of the world via, pole shift, a rogue planet messing with the atmosphere, The Illuminati's plan to go forward with population reduction ad infinitum.

I do see Egypts recent revolution a significant indicator of Something, but what I don't know.

Regarding the I-Ching, a Man Named Terrence Mckenna created timewave zero, I'm not sure how but he plotted a computer graph which measures significant upheavals in human history on a timeline which ends in 2012, when the graph finally goes do zero. How he used the I-Ching to plot this graph... I'm not sure. But there's some interesting videos about Timewave Zero on youtube.

I've also seen many New agers take 2012 in much like a cult would. They say that in 2012, humans with enough positive karma will vibrationally shift into a new state of being on a second earth of paradise. Those with Bad karma will be left to deal with the poleshift (hell), and suffer or die and won't we aware of any shift. I have a significant problem with this theory: how is it any different than the Heaven and hell version in the bible, That only the true followers of gods (Mormons according to South Park) will make it to heaven. But excuse me, what about just regular joes and janes in all countries that have no concept of karma? what of them? Or the starving and dying children in third world countries? Are they going to be left behind on hell earth even though they have no concept of good or bad Karma? I mean come on. While this theory is certainly interesting, it stinks of fundamentalism.

Based on my observation: Lots of things seem to be happening at this planet all at once, and it feels like it's accelerating. for me time seems to be sped up. And so far a lot of people do seem to be more aware of government corruption, and various conspiracy facts and theories. The amount of people that seem to be aware of this is increasing, I know because 5 years ago, if i would have mentioned anything about corruption in governemtn etc etc, people would ignore me. Nowadays almost everytone I talk to doesn't ignore me on this matter.

Glad you decided to keep the thread going, O. Hopefully the fun can start now.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

omg I like that picture!!!! Sorry if I'm to imature....

Same, kinda reminds me of p-funk for some reason.

Let me ask you this, did you feel the same as you do now five years ago? Ten years ago? Twenty years ago?
I remember the way the energy felt when I was a little kid in the 90's. I didn't understand it though. It feels much different now. These are energetic changes beyond our control. There is a big one coming though and its going to change the way people percieve the world.

(The image below was taken Aug. 11, 1999 in England at exactly 11:11 a.m. GMT, showing the Sun in full corona.)

"The Mayans prophesied that from 1999 we have 13 years to realize the changes in our conscious attitude, to stray from the path of self-destruction and instead move onto a path that opens our consciousness to integrate us with all that exists.......The Mayans say that seven years after the start of Kat..n, so 1999, we would enter a time of darkness which would force us to confront our own conduct. The say that this is the time when mankind will enter 'The Sacred Hall of Mirrors', where we will look at ourselves and analyze our behaviors with ourselves, with others, with nature and with the planet in which we live. This will be a time in which all of humanity, by individual conscious decisions, decides to change and eliminate fear and lack of respect from all of our relationships. The Mayans prophesied that the start of this period would be marked by a solar eclipse on August 11, 1999, known to them as 13 Ahau, 8 Cauac. This also would coincide with an unprecedented planetary alignment, the 'Grand Cross' alignment. This would be the beginning of the last 13 years of the Kat..n period, the last opportunity for our civilization to realize the changes that are coming at the moment of our spiritual regeneration."

According to an article by David Hedges titled “Golden Age in 2012”, the golden age is expected to start on 22nd December 2012. He said in his article:-

In the Brahma-Vaivarta Purana, Lord Krishna tells Ganga Devi that there will be a Golden Age within the Kali-yuga that will start 5,000 years after the beginning of the Kali Yuga. The Golden Age will last for 10,000 years according to Lord Krishna. The Kali Yuga calendar began at midnight on 18 February 3102 B.C. according to many sources.

The ancient Hindu’s mainly used lunar calendars but also used solar calendars. If an average lunar year equals 354.36 days, then this would be about 5270 lunar years from the time when the Kali Yuga started until 21 Dec 2012, the year that the Mayans predict rebirth of our planet; and it is also about 5113 solar years of 365.24 days per year.

David Hedges ended his post with the following statement:-

Now we have another ancient source, Hindu Scripture’s called the Brahma-Vaivarta Purana, predicting a new world about the same time that the Mayans predicted it to come! Historically, this is an amazing fact since these two ancient cultures didn’t have any contact.

Originally Posted by Heavy Sleeper

The name is Petrus Romanus (or Peter the Roman) . .
I don't think I'd be able to find a better link, but if it interests anyone, they can look more into it themselves. Again, I don't really believe it, but it's a funny coincidence.

There is a direct message from Petrus Romanus at that same link (cited in message #20, this topic) on the discussion page, at the 'prev' revision of 17:22, 5 August 2009. It gives some insight into who "Peter the Roman" really is.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

- Earth having a pole shift, or aligning with planets, or the center of our galaxy, or moving from one plane and shifting its spin, wobble, etc. etc., etc. ...someone research that please and give us some data!

There is an alignment, but it happens every year at that time.

I know that one of the earlier people that talked about 2012 was Terence McKenna in his Novelty Theories and Timewave Zero.

As to the thread, I'll try to give some input.



Quite some time ago I watched a 3 hour lecture on 2012 and the calendar (I'm looking for it*) and it basically went into detail on how the different levels of evolution of consciousness progress and get shorter each time the next circle starts. What I found interesting is that, viewed from a larger picture (big bang - 2012) some cycles do seem to outline some significant changes and if the names were correct, some of these appeared quite uncanny. I personally would put more emphasize on the big picture than picking out single events that happen now. At least start from a broader viewpoint, to understand the "changing curve".

*It was by Nassim Haramein.

I never actually checked the accuracy of either the dates nor the calendar itself.

In the lecture it was actually a lot more explained than in the picture I have posted.

We could look at the two dates that are open in the provided calendar:
Jan 5, 1999
Feb 11, 2011
Anything specific happen on exactly these days?

According to Wikipedia:
As to 1999: Apple Computer releases the Power Macintosh G3 (Blue & White)
But as for the date of Feb 11, 2011: Egyptian Revolution culminates in the resignation of Hosni Mubarak and the transfer of power to the Supreme Military Council after 18 days of protests.

Here is another:




Anyway, I guess that existence (meaning everything) is so complex and versatile that it could be fitted into any "relative" system trying to put a static order on things to make it appear true and sensible. I personally prefer the notion of a bit more chaos, but sometimes I wonder if everything happens because it is supposed to, whether we want to or not.

Especially looking at events over the last 200 years makes it increasingly difficult to put them into "the correct order" and is almost necessarily vague. What's more, our perception of events is guided by media and may be biased as well.

That said, I believe that the most significant invention and tool to change everything forever is the internet. That's the closest we have come to observing a collective consciousness.