Thread: Aliens.

If you don't believe in aliens you are close minded... For space to be as vast as it is and for someone to say that there is not one single life form out there is very stupid. But to say aliens are visting us, well i am kinda skeptical about that because the distance from one star to the next is very far...

Originally Posted by bradysdreaming

But to say aliens are visting us, well i am kinda skeptical about that because the distance from one star to the next is very far...

That is an understatement.
Fortunately there are more efficient ways of traversing apparently vast areas of space then what humans are capable of in our present understanding and technology.
It is not so much crossing vast areas of space linearly as appearing to jump instantly from one location and appearing in another. This isn't accomplished in the third dimension, but folding or looping space (kind of like how pac-man can go off the left hand side of the screen and appear on the right hand side). Creating wormholes or temporary tunnels in the fourth or fifth dimension.
I don't know the science of it, I admit it, because I am not an alien or an astro-physicist... But I have a basic understanding of the concept just as I have a basic understanding of how a radio works. I don't, but I know that it does.
Technologically advanced aliens have a way of hovering at a high wave-length where they can blink in and out of our perceived physical vibrational spectrum. Somehow their technology is an extension of their minds, whereas our technology is an extension of our senses and hands. We can use microscopes and telescopes as extensions of our eyes, a spoon is an extension of our hands, etc...
With some aliens it is hard to tell the difference between their vehicle and their body or their mind. Their vehicle might be perceived as a transparent light that seems to have sentience. Or somehow be able to pass through physical barriers as if we are only seeing a cross-section of a 4th or 5th dimensional object interacting with our third dimension.

The nature of the phenomena of alien encounters also exists on the threshold of objectivity and subjectivity. Cameras may malfunction, or not record anything unusual, while the person experience a full alien encounter with no physical evidence to show for it. However, after the event, there may be scorched ground, high radiation readings, etc. It is a fine line between diagnosing an experiencer with a psychological disorder or not. Here is an interesting read. It is a critical evaluation of theory and evidence.

It is interesting to not that for much of history the alien encounter was interpreted as encounters with gods, demons, succubi, and faeries or elves. They all had similar trademarks, ie. experiencing extreme pulsations of energy and a "Wahwahwahwahwah" sound, bright spinning lights, radiation burns (sunburn), missing time, encountering beings who humans were unable to relate to emotionally and unable to identify emotions in them, invasive telepathy and psychological manipulation, and even genetic experiments. Myths of the faerie changeling where human women were abducted and impregnated by faeries and later gave birth to a "changeling" or 1/2 human-1/2 faerie child, then the faeries come to take back the child. This also seems relevant to the "demi-gods" of myth. It wasn't until the 1930s and 1940s that the experience began to take on the alien association widespread. Perhaps this is a result of science taking the place of religion and superstition, and science fiction taking the place of mythology. Whatever it is, the alien encounter phenomena appears to be here to stay, and to always defy classification. It appears to be the manifestation and/or the projection of the mystery of our place in the universe. It appears to rear its head as any form that seems possible, but without evidence. It is the manifestation of the fantastic, from beyond the threshold of human understanding, perhaps to push us into expanding the envelope of our rational conception.

What I find very very interesting is the possible relation of the alien abduction experience with sleep paralysis and hypno-gogic hallucinations. Perhaps aliens can also manipulate people's consciousness and brainwaves and initiate a subjective hypnogogic abduction experience while they fiddle with the victim's mind. Or perhaps the whole experience is a product of the hypnogogic state.

But this only relates to the abduction experience. I have had no abduction experiences so I don't know about this first-hand. The experiences I have had are not with the classic "grey" aliens who abduct people but rather with a more benevolent entity that seems to be beyond our understanding of wise and compassionate, yet impersonal. They are awesome, yet quell any reactions of fear from humans. It is obvious that they deeply respect humans and our feelings of safety, they don't cross any boundaries. They need to be invited. But they will step in only when there is absolutely no other option for our safety as a species.

But perhaps I am just fantasy-prone. I admit that that is definitely a possibility. But, according to psychologists, fantasy prone people are still able to tell the difference between a fantasy or hallucination and a real experience. I would have to be schizophrenic if this weren't a genuine experience. Alien encounters are experienced by up to 6% of the population, according to the link I just posted. That seems like a high estimate, and would include the schizophrenic population as well. It would also include false memories suggested by UFOologists during hypnosis. But the fact is that many many people who are otherwise very sane and who have lead 'normal' lives, who were not even interested in aliens have had these experiences.

So with 5-6% of the population fantasy-prone, and a good portion of those only spontaneously fantasy-prone, it is the majority consensus reality opinion labeling the minority fantasy. And without any evidence for or against, it ends up being a matter of personal experience or not.

And what I would like to make clear is that the true nature of these experiences cannot be accurately communicated. The one relating the story of the experience has to use a lot of metaphors and similes. The one trying to understand, diagnose, etc. does not understand the nature of the experience. It is easy for them to dismiss it as fantasy, false memories, masking of trauma, etc... When the experiencer says that he "saw into a higher dimension of reality" that he was "previously unaware of" and that "the vast majority of people are unaware of" he means it. He cannot describe it accurately, or offer evidence, or experiment to prove a hypothesis (unless he is a scientist).

That is the whole message of the movie "Contact" and the book "Contact" by Carl Sagan. That in the end she had an experience that totally changed her life and she knew in the deepest part of her being as true, but she had no proof. And it is significant that the tables turned, whereas before she was a skeptical atheist. She remained atheist, but still was accused of hallucinating or fantasizing. Very good message in that story, I have a lot of respect for Carl Sagan. Also, the reaction from the religious nut-jobs was portrayed very well. But the character of Matthew McConaughey was very annoying.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

It is not so much crossing vast areas of space linearly as appearing to jump instantly from one location and appearing in another. This isn't accomplished in the third dimension, but folding or looping space.

I really liked the book "A wrinkle in time" when I was growing up too.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I really liked the book "A wrinkle in time" when I was growing up too.

One Of The Best. Fucking. Books. Ever. Period.

Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

One Of The Best. Fucking. Books. Ever. Period.

Yeah, I always read a chapter of that book before having sex.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is an understatement.
Fortunately there are more efficient ways of traversing apparently vast areas of space then what humans are capable of in our present understanding and technology.
It is not so much crossing vast areas of space linearly as appearing to jump instantly from one location and appearing in another. This isn't accomplished in the third dimension, but folding or looping space (kind of like how pac-man can go off the left hand side of the screen and appear on the right hand side). Creating wormholes or temporary tunnels in the fourth or fifth dimension.
I don't know the science of it, I admit it, because I am not an alien or an astro-physicist... But I have a basic understanding of the concept just as I have a basic understanding of how a radio works. I don't, but I know that it does.
Technologically advanced aliens have a way of hovering at a high wave-length where they can blink in and out of our perceived physical vibrational spectrum. Somehow their technology is an extension of their minds, whereas our technology is an extension of our senses and hands. We can use microscopes and telescopes as extensions of our eyes, a spoon is an extension of our hands, etc...
With some aliens it is hard to tell the difference between their vehicle and their body or their mind. Their vehicle might be perceived as a transparent light that seems to have sentience. Or somehow be able to pass through physical barriers as if we are only seeing a cross-section of a 4th or 5th dimensional object interacting with our third dimension.

The nature of the phenomena of alien encounters also exists on the threshold of objectivity and subjectivity. Cameras may malfunction, or not record anything unusual, while the person experience a full alien encounter with no physical evidence to show for it. However, after the event, there may be scorched ground, high radiation readings, etc. It is a fine line between diagnosing an experiencer with a psychological disorder or not. Here is an interesting read. It is a critical evaluation of theory and evidence.

It is interesting to not that for much of history the alien encounter was interpreted as encounters with gods, demons, succubi, and faeries or elves. They all had similar trademarks, ie. experiencing extreme pulsations of energy and a "Wahwahwahwahwah" sound, bright spinning lights, radiation burns (sunburn), missing time, encountering beings who humans were unable to relate to emotionally and unable to identify emotions in them, invasive telepathy and psychological manipulation, and even genetic experiments. Myths of the faerie changeling where human women were abducted and impregnated by faeries and later gave birth to a "changeling" or 1/2 human-1/2 faerie child, then the faeries come to take back the child. This also seems relevant to the "demi-gods" of myth. It wasn't until the 1930s and 1940s that the experience began to take on the alien association widespread. Perhaps this is a result of science taking the place of religion and superstition, and science fiction taking the place of mythology. Whatever it is, the alien encounter phenomena appears to be here to stay, and to always defy classification. It appears to be the manifestation and/or the projection of the mystery of our place in the universe. It appears to rear its head as any form that seems possible, but without evidence. It is the manifestation of the fantastic, from beyond the threshold of human understanding, perhaps to push us into expanding the envelope of our rational conception.

What I find very very interesting is the possible relation of the alien abduction experience with sleep paralysis and hypno-gogic hallucinations. Perhaps aliens can also manipulate people's consciousness and brainwaves and initiate a subjective hypnogogic abduction experience while they fiddle with the victim's mind. Or perhaps the whole experience is a product of the hypnogogic state.

But this only relates to the abduction experience. I have had no abduction experiences so I don't know about this first-hand. The experiences I have had are not with the classic "grey" aliens who abduct people but rather with a more benevolent entity that seems to be beyond our understanding of wise and compassionate, yet impersonal. They are awesome, yet quell any reactions of fear from humans. It is obvious that they deeply respect humans and our feelings of safety, they don't cross any boundaries. They need to be invited. But they will step in only when there is absolutely no other option for our safety as a species.

But perhaps I am just fantasy-prone. I admit that that is definitely a possibility. But, according to psychologists, fantasy prone people are still able to tell the difference between a fantasy or hallucination and a real experience. I would have to be schizophrenic if this weren't a genuine experience. Alien encounters are experienced by up to 6% of the population, according to the link I just posted. That seems like a high estimate, and would include the schizophrenic population as well. It would also include false memories suggested by UFOologists during hypnosis. But the fact is that many many people who are otherwise very sane and who have lead 'normal' lives, who were not even interested in aliens have had these experiences.

So with 5-6% of the population fantasy-prone, and a good portion of those only spontaneously fantasy-prone, it is the majority consensus reality opinion labeling the minority fantasy. And without any evidence for or against, it ends up being a matter of personal experience or not.

And what I would like to make clear is that the true nature of these experiences cannot be accurately communicated. The one relating the story of the experience has to use a lot of metaphors and similes. The one trying to understand, diagnose, etc. does not understand the nature of the experience. It is easy for them to dismiss it as fantasy, false memories, masking of trauma, etc... When the experiencer says that he "saw into a higher dimension of reality" that he was "previously unaware of" and that "the vast majority of people are unaware of" he means it. He cannot describe it accurately, or offer evidence, or experiment to prove a hypothesis (unless he is a scientist).

That is the whole message of the movie "Contact" and the book "Contact" by Carl Sagan. That in the end she had an experience that totally changed her life and she knew in the deepest part of her being as true, but she had no proof. And it is significant that the tables turned, whereas before she was a skeptical atheist. She remained atheist, but still was accused of hallucinating or fantasizing. Very good message in that story, I have a lot of respect for Carl Sagan. Also, the reaction from the religious nut-jobs was portrayed very well. But the character of Matthew McConaughey was very annoying.

Yah i was thinking after i made that post, that wormholes could be used to travel vast distances through space.

I remember watching some program a while back that basically said wormholes can never be used for space travel, or traveling of any kind, unless you're the size of an atom. The program was basically saying the inability to create or use wormholes is a universal law, like gravity. Wormholes create paradoxes that could unravel the Universe! Well that's just my laymans understanding of it

But I do think there is something that can travel across the galaxies, and are already using it. It's mind. Close your eyes and see yourself traveling to another planet. Congratulations you're an astronaut! The interesting part is if you're willing to believe that mind exists on another layer of reality *astral*. In this case, if you can access this other layer with your full consciousness, you really are traveling to distant planets. The next step, is to have your body travel with you.

It all sounds impossible but I'm a believer that if we humans an imagine it, then it is possible on some level. Because I'm not sure how its possible for a mere human to imagine something separate from this Universe - when we are parts of it. We've imagined all sorts of crazy things, wormholes, time traveling, teleportation, dematerialize, re-materializing! All the great stuff of science-fiction.

So in my belief, all of these things must be possible - just not maybe 'here'.

I believe in aliens. I mean how can we be alone when space is HUGE. Personally, I don't believe any aliens are here on earth.

Originally Posted by bradysdreaming

If you don't believe in aliens you are close minded... For space to be as vast as it is and for someone to say that there is not one single life form out there is very stupid.

The vastness of space doesn't necessarily mean there has to be alien lifeforms.

But to say aliens are visting us, well i am kinda skeptical about that because the distance from one star to the next is very far...

Does believing that alien lifeforms couldn't have the means to travel from one star to the next, make you 'close-minded'?

Originally Posted by malac

The vastness of space doesn't necessarily mean there has to be alien lifeforms.
Does believing that alien lifeforms couldn't have the means to travel from one star to the next, make you 'close-minded'?

To believe they can't travel from star to star, is not close minded. To SAY they CAN'T, is. You are thinking about it all wrong, I don't think they are traveling at 99% the speed of light... and even then it would take a damn long time to get place to place. I think they have harnessed worm-holes and other "natural" short cuts in the universe to use to their advantage to travel vast distances in a fraction of the time.

Originally Posted by Neo Neo

I investigated some railroad tracks but I think I was too close to town and too much lighting maybe. I did feel like there was some sort of energy current where the railroad tracks were, and I got some indiscriminate imagery of "dust-like" things in my mind, but nothing else other than that. Although it did feel peaceful out by the tracks. Not too sure what I was supposed to be looking for, but thats what I got.

Interesting! I think we still need more info on the inorganic beings though.

Originally Posted by Motumz

To believe they can't travel from star to star, is not close minded. To SAY they CAN'T, is.

Oh boy...

You are thinking about it all wrong

Thinking about what? I presented nothing to be judged as wrong, unless to my assumptions, you're referring to the interrogative I asked which was used to question the possible inconsistencies based on the errornous reasoning of the person I had targeted my question toward. Then, because it was his reasoning that was used (against him), he, according to your logic, is wrong.

Originally Posted by malac

Oh boy...

I stopped reading at "boy". Nobody can say it's impossible. Nobody.

You don't have to respond because I won't read your reply, there is no point "arguing" (or whatever you are trying to prove).

Originally Posted by Neo Neo

Before everyone reads what I say next, know that its not toward anyone in particular, I'm just throwing it out there. I just think that a definitive "No there isn't any life outside our planet, at all, period." is pretty narrow-minded and limiting. I know I sound hypocritical when I say I've seen UFOs, but again I'm speaking from personal experience. I've experienced something I've personally believed to be UFOs. So have others. BUT, you can't personally see ALL of the universe and assume that there's no life out there, because NO ONE has gone out and seen the entire universe or solved the mysteries thereof. If someone did go out, personally experience everything in the universe, and find no source of conclusive life, then I'd be down with that. But seeing that we havn't come close to that, I'm betting that what I saw were really UFOs, if not something extremely odd.

We haven't even explored a fraction of our own oceans, much less "our" own universe. You did see something that wasn't created or operated by humans, and no one can take that away from you. Yes, it is 100% completely close / narrow minded to say there is absolutely no life out there other than on planet Earth. And I'm saying all types of life: intelligent life, inorganic life, simple life, or other life forms that we can't even comprehend. It's all life, and it's all important.

But they can see for themselves pretty soon, we are extremely close to proving there is at least microbial and bacterial life on other planets. In fact as other people have mention on here, we have evidence of fossilized bacteria/microscopic life in-cased in meteorites that have hit Earth and have been preserved due to the cold climates on Earth or just the extremely hard rock they have been sealed in. We have also found proof that there is liquid water on other planets. In my opinion I don't even think you need liquid H2O to harvest life-forms (no matter how small or big), you just need a liquid to suffice (such as liquid nitrogen - can't remember the planet name [might be in our solar system?] but there are massive lakes of liquid nitrogen that could possibly hold some forms of life, no matter how different).

Originally Posted by bradysdreaming

If you don't believe in aliens you are close minded... For space to be as vast as it is and for someone to say that there is not one single life form out there is very stupid. But to say aliens are visting us, well i am kinda skeptical about that because the distance from one star to the next is very far...

.

Originally Posted by changed

If you don't believe in aliens you are close minded... For space to be as vast as it is and for someone to say that there is not one single life form out there is very stupid. But to say aliens are visting us, well i am kinda skeptical about that because the distance from one star to the next is very far...

I agree with you. I believe in life outside the Earth, no matter how different it is but I just don't believe that aliens have actually been on Earth.