Thread: DJ - Paper vs Electronic

Hi everyone,
I have started writing my DJ again but I am finding it quite hard to find the time to write it by hand.
I was wondering, what is your opinion to this question:
Is it better to write your DJ in a notebook or electronically?

So far these are my thoughts:

Paper DJ:

Pros
- Possibly better pathways are created by writing by hand. Today we use the computer for virtually everything, but writing by hand reminds me of my school days and I believe that's a great way to learn, memorize, analyse etc.

Cons
- Time consuming
- Old DJ can get lost quite easily


Electronic DJ:
- Time efficiency
- Can do it at work or at home
- Can store virtually millions of dreams in one document/folder
- Works well for my needs: I record my dreams on my iPhone in the bathroom so I won't wake my wife up 2-3 times a night.
The next day, at home or at work, I can listen to my iPhone using headphones and type up my dreams.

Thank you

I personally don't seem to have much of a difference whether I do it manually or electronically, just as long as I'm doing it at all is beneficial.

One thing I might suggest if you find journaling too time consuming in the morning is to write out bullet points or short phrases instead of full paragraphs - just enough so you can remember the vast majority of it when you reread it. Then, later in the day, when you have more time, write/type out the full dream. The act of essentially writing your dreams down twice demonstrates the importance of the practice to your brain, and can help improve your recall much faster.

Another interesting method is called Mental Map Recall (MMR). I'm kind of experimenting with it right now, and so far it's given me decent results. You can read up on it here: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-sign...ur-dreams.html

So far I have only tried writing my journal in the electronic way. (PC/Phone)

I have been thinking about trying writing on paper, as I like to actually write occasionally and a real dream journal seems nice.

I tend to be more involved with the process and remember my dreams more if I write it down on paper. I'll write down notes and tags about the dream in my phone, but then I write the full thing in a notebook.

Some studies point out that writing in paper is more helpful when it comes to recall stuff....but in the case of a dream journal, you write it down so you don't forget it, so the medium that you use doesn't make that much difference. In fact, an electronic DJ might be better due being faster and easier to use, along with extra functionalities like statistics, adding images, etc.

Originally Posted by Zoth

Some studies point out that writing in paper is more helpful when it comes to recall stuff....but in the case of a dream journal, you write it down so you don't forget it, so the medium that you use doesn't make that much difference.

Isn't that a bit contradictory, Zoth? Isn't building that "recall stuff" a main point of DJ'ing?

I guess if your main purpose is recording dreams and nothing else, then yes, any medium will work fine. But if you are recording dreams as a tool for building recall and making dreams a more integral part of your waking-life experience by adding them to your mind's memory, then it might be a good idea to use pen and paper.

I actually think the OP answered his own question when he listed the pros and cons for each: yes, using machines is far more convenient, but using pen and paper has greater value in terms of building those "better pathways," especially if those pathways are the neural ones meant to store the memory of your dream.

Sometimes you have to work a bit to get the best results. Computers/phones/etc might be convenient and efficient, but there is something about writing things down that makes what you are writing a part of your mind and not just another electronic file.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Isn't that a bit contradictory, Zoth? Isn't building that "recall stuff" a main point of DJ'ing?

I guess if your main purpose is recording dreams and nothing else, then yes, any medium will work fine. But if you are recording dreams as a tool for building recall and making dreams a more integral part of your waking-life experience by adding them to your mind's memory, then it might be a good idea to use pen and paper.

I actually think the OP answered his own question when he listed the pros and cons for each: yes, using machines is far more convenient, but using pen and paper has greater value in terms of building those "better pathways," especially if those pathways are the neural ones meant to store the memory of your dream.

Sometimes you have to work a bit to get the best results. Computers/phones/etc might be convenient and efficient, but there is something about writing things down that makes what you are writing a part of your mind and not just another electronic file.

That's exactly the point: if you want to stick dreams to your memory, it's not the medium that matters so much as other factors, like spaced repetition (reading your DJ entries besides the moment you write them down), increasing immersion (by engaging in exercises like searching for dream signs, or passages where you could had an opportunity to become lucid), among other factors. And in the overwhelming majority of these factors, electronic DJing wins, due its accessibility and the other factors that I mentioned above. Also, the studies that favor writing instead of typing can't yet be generalized to all memory related tasks, thus the caution on saying writing is better. Besides, even if you do forget things more easily in digital format, that doesn't mean that writing is better for recall, as these studies tend to make us believe, because what might be happening is since the person knows they are saving that file in a safe location, their brains diminish the relevance of that memory, freeing up space for other more important things. This is especially relevant for dream recall since the first step is always to get a satisfactory amount of information regarding your dreams to a medium that will save that same information, precisely because you'll most likely forget it in a short window of time. After the risk of loosing that information is no longer present, you can focus safely on interacting with it again in order to maximize your chances to transform it into long-term memories.

Regarding the "but there is something about writing things down that makes what you are writing a part of your mind and not just another electronic file.", I know what you mean, but that relates more to the fact that writing is more mentally stimulant than typing, which in itself could be an argument for it being superior for recall. In terms of dream recall though, we don't know it yet.

Great answers above already, and I think it really does come down to your personal preference.

I usually type my dreams in my phone, although I sometimes do voice recordings or paper DJs too (usually only for drawing diagrams.)
I like typing because I can easily add an extra detail earlier in the entry, and I can rearrange things and expand on notes without running out of space.
I often write out bullet points first to make sure I don't forget any key events, and then I fill in the details after that, so typing suits me well.
I also like that I can grab my phone in the middle of the night and it's already lit up and ready to go - no need for a lamp or finding a pen, etc.
It's also reasonably quiet to tap on the screen so I don't keep my partner awake, especially if I type under the sheets and keep the light dimmed.

I think you'll probably find a routine that works for you whichever method you choose though.

^^ Well said, Zoth! I had a feeling my comment might get an excellent response and it did; you almost convinced me. Almost.

Though I still think that the process of writing your dreams down (including the struggle to get everything on paper before you forget it) is a much quicker method for storing your dreams in memory than those many steps you listed above, and is a good way to flex your memory "muscle," what you say does make sense. Also, I speak more from experience than study on the value of handwriting things, so I suppose I could be wrong because, yes, we really don't know yet.

I wonder if I say all this -- and stick to my guns on handwriting DJ's -- because i'm a bit of a Luddite, and see the convenience of machines chipping away at the value of a little hard work (like writing by hand) at every turn. So it could be me, but I think sometimes that using machines to do our work for us isn't always the best answer, even if the machines "win" every time.

Handwriting is art. I am not the same, than 5 years earlier I was. Im changing, and I can see it on my handwriting too. It is always a special feeling to open the old DJ-s. Voice record in the night-early morning, after handwriting. Like meditation is not just about LD, handwriting is not just about DJ.

(I was writing posts in the morning, after a party...wow, I must make some edits.)

I write by hand, because I like to get the dream down as soon as possible after waking up, so turning the computer on would be too much of a hassle and I don't like typing on the phone, especially not longer texts. There's also the advantage of being able to look through the dream journal whenever I feel like, and also seeing the dream written down in my own handwriting makes it feel a bit more personal, in a sense. I've started to keep my dream journal and a pencil on a shelf right besides my bed, where I write down keywords and small notes in the back of it right after waking up, and I like having both notes and properly written down dreams kept in the same place.

I prefer electronic. I keep switching between the two (I have these huge year-long gaps in my DJ here from when I went back to paper journals haha) but I've noticed I never reach that dream recall peak I can get when I type them out.

My record recall electronically is five dreams in one night. For paper it's only two.

I'm certain it's because I type so much faster than I write, so I can grab more details in one dream before moving on to the next dream without any loss of recall for dream #2.

Plus it's easier to go back and edit an electronic document when you remember more details of your dreams. And my mind has a really bad habit of going "Oh, remember this one detail I forgot to tell you an hour ago...?" and then I can jump over and throw it in a DJ edit real quick.

I do an electronic DJ using a HUDL2 tablet, the "Lucidity" DJ app and using MyScript a handwriting recognition app. That makes it feel like I am writing the DJ by hand, but has all the advantages of electronic storage. The MtScript app turns the handwriting into text, and is really very good at it, even managing to recognise my scrawl!
The only downside is that it is just a ltlle slower than actually writing, but not much with the HUDL because it has quite a fast processor. It's pretty ggod on a tablet, but useless on a phone because the screen is too small. I tried using a stylus, but it didn't seemt o work very well with the HUDL's touchscreen, so I use my finger, which does take a bit of getting used to.
Lucidity also has features to look at the stats of things like nmber of LDs as a percentage, length of dreams (DJ entries) and number of dreams per day/week/month graphs.

Hey gals and guys -
thank you so much for all the replies! It looks like I kicked off a healthy discussion here!
I guess, as we have all pretty much been saying, it depends on personal preference and need.
For me, at the moment, the goal is to DJ more regularly - so I think I am going to go the electronic way. I will record my dreams into my iPhone and then type them up at work/home during the weekends. This will make it easier for me to get to sleep faster after I record my dreams and it won't bother my wife.
But in due time, when our baby is a bit older and sleeping through the night regularly, I like to think that I will go back to writing my dreams by hand - perhaps I will still use my iPhone to record them in the middle of the night, which saves time.

I really need to find a good method, one that works for me. Because at the moment I am mainly trying out WILD which has resulted in 2 OBEs, rather than LD. I personally feel that many OBEs are actually a type of LD, but that's my opinion only.
Trouble is, the vibrational stage of REM atonia is very strong for me - and it sometimes leaves me feeling "disconnected", "out of sorts" for quite a long time afterwards, so I am very keen to go back to trying MILD or DILD, which are my preferred techniques.

Interestingly enough, I have had more success with WILD so far. But a month or so ago I had the coolest DILD - which I wasn't even practicing at the time - and I really enjoyed how I attained lucidity. The dream didn't last overly long but there were no vibrations, so that's good enough for me!

Initially, for aesthetic reasons, I was buying beautiful handmade blank books for dream journals. The problem is that my handwriting is atrocious if I write quickly: I need to go very slow if I want to make sure what I'm writing is legible later, and it got so that it was taking several hours to record a single night's experiences (my recollections tend to be rather detailed). If I had infinite time that would be great, but there are only so many hours in the day!

I also wanted my dream entries to be archived and searchable because I got sick of flipping aimlessly through the pages when I was trying to look up a particular dream, so I ended up having to transcribe those journals into electronic files anyway, which also felt like an inefficient use of time. So finally I gave up on the aesthetics and just started typing everything into my laptop. This goes a lot more quickly since I'm a very fast typer, and on the bright side, whenever I want to upload a dream to DV, I can just cut and paste directly from the Word file. I start a new Word document as my dream journal for each year, though for convenience I always add new entries at the top, which means my journal ends up in reverse chronological order. At the end of each year I print out the file (usually several hundred pages by that point) and put the hard copy in a binder so I have a physical back-up. Of course I also keep a paper notebook next to the bed to immediately write down delicate details that might fade quickly after I wake up, but I just treat that like scrap paper.

Writing down my dreams in any medium definitely helps me consolidate my memories and even recall additional details, so this is another area where I've found an advantage in doing it electronically: my entries on paper always tended to be somewhat scattered and disorganized, because new details would come up later pertaining to a description I had already written, sometimes pages earlier. I find typing just as effective as handwriting for memory consolidation, and perhaps even better, especially if it's a dream a like enough to post on DV, because then I'm rereading the text over and over and over (I'm a compulsive editor) to make sure everything is spelled correctly and has proper punctuation and good sentence structure.

I do miss the beauty and dignity of those lovely books I used to use. On the other hand, even my best handwriting wasn't good enough to merit sullying their pages. Beautiful books should be ornamented with calligraphy and illuminations. Has anyone here seen a facscimile of Carl Jung's The Red Book? It must be one of the most gorgeous books ever produced in the twentieth century...

Taking into account that everyone thinks differently... I'll just give my stats and info:

6 weeks in practise.
8 lucid dreams.
Dream journal method? Electronic.

I have my tablet hooked up to a keyboard. During the middle of the night I can whip it out and start typing with eyes closed, which helps with recall. I just use pen and paper for dot points.