Thread: Is it possible to stay conscious forever?

I'm sorry, but what on earth does a child thinking dreams are real (which BTW is exactly the opposite of being self-aware in a dream) have to do with staying self-aware throughout the entire night?

It's an interesting point, sure, but it seems to have nothing at all to do with the OP.

Originally Posted by Sageous

I'm sorry, but what on earth does a child thinking dreams are real (which BTW is exactly the opposite of being self-aware in a dream) have to do with staying self-aware throughout the entire night?

It's an interesting point, sure, but it seems to have nothing at all to do with the OP.

Because you can assume that as a child you stay conscious during all 24 hours. Now if you turn this process in a reverse direction you might get back to a state where you will be all day conscious.

For you it is self-awareness in a dream, but for child it is the same awareness that he has during his awake life. Because now you have different understand of dreaming, you think that you are self-aware in your dream. So if you will reach a point where you will be conscious all day long then you will be self-aware during the whole day, and you will be having the same awareness both in your dream and awake life.

Originally Posted by flowofmysoul

Because you can assume that as a child you stay conscious during all 24 hours. Now if you turn this process in a reverse direction you might get back to a state where you will be all day conscious.

I don't think you can assume that. A child thinking that dreams are real upon waking (more on that in a sec) is by no measure the same thing as a child maintaining consciousness of any kind for 24 hours. These are two very different things.

Children thinking that dreams are real has nothing whatsoever to do with awareness or consciousness, but rather with their undeveloped understanding of reality. Their brains function just like adults during dreams, with memory turned off and thus waking-life consciousness unavailable. Keep in mind also that during NLD's we all, adults and children alike, think that what occurs in the dream is real; it is upon waking and remembering the dream that a child has trouble understanding that the dream wasn't real. Also keep in mind that the child isn't taught that dreams aren't real by adults; as he matures and develops his worldview, he comes to understand, on his own, that dreams are not real (or, perhaps he might develop another theory of dreams' nature, but he does understand they are different than waking life).

On top of all that, children have an extremely limited sense of self-awareness in the first place (it doesn't really develop until well into the teens, or later), so to say that they are self-aware at all, much less for 24 hours, is a stretch at best.

For you it is self-awareness in a dream, but for child it is the same awareness that he has during his awake life. Because now you have different understand of dreaming, you think that you are self-aware in your dream.

This simply is not the case. For anyone lucidity means self-awareness in a dream; that is the definition of LD'ing itself. A child may have a different understanding of dreams, but that understanding (that it's all just as real as waking life) actually sets her further from the self-awareness necessary for LD'ing, rather than closer to it. A child's interpretation of what is going on around her, after waking, is not really the place you want to be to be conscious 24/7. A child's world, in wake and sleep, is very limited and simply lacks the experience and knowledge necessary to properly identify reality in wake or sleep. It may sound romantic that their simple world, full of misunderstandings, imaginative "filling in" of what it does not yet understand, is the way to go, but the one piece missing from it all is actual self-awareness.

In a nutshell, children lack waking-life consciousness (self-awareness) all day, which is what leads them to believe -- upon waking! -- that dreams are as real as waking life. This misconception on their part does not make them more conscious, but less.

Again, this is a very interesting subject, and discussing whether, how, and why children "naturally" LD is definitely worthy of its own thread. However, a child's misperception of dreams really has nothing whatever to do with self-awareness, waking-life consciousness, or 24-hour lucidity. The two states are completely different things, so reverting to the state of childhood ignorance and lack of self-awareness does not to me seem a sensible place to go, because it would negate consciousness, not enhance it.

So if you will reach a point where you will be conscious all day long then you will be self-aware during the whole day, and you will be having the same awareness both in your dream and awake life.

Agreed. But that point is not reached, or even approached, by children.

I hope all that made sense.

Originally Posted by Sageous

I don't think you can assume that. A child thinking that dreams are real upon waking (more on that in a sec) is by no measure the same thing as a child maintaining consciousness of any kind for 24 hours. These are two very different things.

Children thinking that dreams are real has nothing whatsoever to do with awareness or consciousness, but rather with their undeveloped understanding of reality. Their brains function just like adults during dreams, with memory turned off and thus waking-life consciousness unavailable. Keep in mind also that during NLD's we all, adults and children alike, think that what occurs in the dream is real; it is upon waking and remembering the dream that a child has trouble understanding that the dream wasn't real. Also keep in mind that the child isn't taught that dreams aren't real by adults; as he matures and develops his worldview, he comes to understand, on his own, that dreams are not real (or, perhaps he might develop another theory of dreams' nature, but he does understand they are different than waking life).

On top of all that, children have an extremely limited sense of self-awareness in the first place (it doesn't really develop until well into the teens, or later), so to say that they are self-aware at all, much less for 24 hours, is a stretch at best.



This simply is not the case. For anyone lucidity means self-awareness in a dream; that is the definition of LD'ing itself. A child may have a different understanding of dreams, but that understanding (that it's all just as real as waking life) actually sets her further from the self-awareness necessary for LD'ing, rather than closer to it. A child's interpretation of what is going on around her, after waking, is not really the place you want to be to be conscious 24/7. A child's world, in wake and sleep, is very limited and simply lacks the experience and knowledge necessary to properly identify reality in wake or sleep. It may sound romantic that their simple world, full of misunderstandings, imaginative "filling in" of what it does not yet understand, is the way to go, but the one piece missing from it all is actual self-awareness.

In a nutshell, children lack waking-life consciousness (self-awareness) all day, which is what leads them to believe -- upon waking! -- that dreams are as real as waking life. This misconception on their part does not make them more conscious, but less.

Again, this is a very interesting subject, and discussing whether, how, and why children "naturally" LD is definitely worthy of its own thread. However, a child's misperception of dreams really has nothing whatever to do with self-awareness, waking-life consciousness, or 24-hour lucidity. The two states are completely different things, so reverting to the state of childhood ignorance and lack of self-awareness does not to me seem a sensible place to go, because it would negate consciousness, not enhance it.



Agreed. But that point is not reached, or even approached, by children.

I hope all that made sense.

Maybe you are right. I wont be able to explain my point here, I saw a documentary about this, but I do not remember all the details.