Thread: Is Astral Projection the same as lucid dreaming?

Originally Posted by Zonic

So, basically I only went into the 'astral world' (which is just another basic dream) because I was expecting it and thought it was a different thing entirely? I suppose now that I know what it is my next LD will be sort of different? Thank you, I'm checking out the article.

Tom Campbell helped me along with the combination of how I've experienced being conscious during sleep sort out the fact that we are simply interfacing with information that we render into the experiences we are having. At the core of all of our experiences there is the mechanics of thought which for all intents and purposes forms a language in non-verbal communication. Dreams are an example of what non-verbal communication actually is. That is, when we communicate between aspects of ourselves from the conscious and the unconscious parts, our thoughts convey the content of that communication.

It's the NVC that forms and shapes the datastream to create the content of our experiences. In many ways, if we can accept that reality itself is a type of simulation where there is a universal awareness communicating with it's smaller parts then everything reality is, is one big expression of thought and communication [NVC]. Robert A Monroe touches on this in his books "Journey's out-of-the-body", "Far Journeys" and "Ultimate Journeys" where he discovered other beings would send him an experience packet he called Rote, and as he "ran" the rote he would be in a dream like experience from that entities perspective living out what that experience represented. He called this non-verbal communication which in turn, I am pointing out that dreams are precisely this type of communication and what we produce still is a remarkable simulation of reality in those states.

What we have is an awareness that thinks, forms language to describe complex dream reality situations and our perception of those thoughts rendered out in a very vivid virtual reality. Hence we are all literally living in a simulated virtual reality as per Tom Campbell and we could argue that even right now, our physical world is another form of non-verbal communication and is modeled after how thought simulates reality in dreams.

All very cool stuff to think about and also experience.

I'd say that dreams are a type of astral projection. Both occur on the same plane of consciousness and the differences are rather a matter of view. "Dreaming" is the common term for perceptions we have when the body is asleep while "astral projection" stems from an occult/esoteric/theosophic background that also knows other forms of projection (etheric, mental...). It wouldn't be a good choice to use the term detached from its origin. "Out of body experience" is a rather neutral alternative, but it might be too general, especially if you want to describe the differences. While dreams by definition occur when the body is asleep (otherwise we'd call it hallucination, vision, etc.), astral projection can also be practiced from a relaxed state that is not sleep.

From experience I can say that (lucid) dreams usually occur deeper in the astral world, while astral projections often start in proximity to the physical world, not exactly in it, but in a close image of it. My projections mostly begin with the act of leaving the place of my body. It also takes a bit of time to establish vision which is often blurry or even completely absent. The further I move away from the body, the clearer it usually gets and the closer I go back to it, the less stable the state becomes. I can also perceive the surroundings quite correctly, but there may be deviations that become more numerous the longer I stay in that state or the further I move away from the starting point. That's maybe a matter of concentration. As I said, it's close, but it's not the same. But after all you're not using your physical eyes anyway.

Of course you can declare that it's all just a dream, but that can be said about anything at all. If you feel the need to distinguish, knowledge of the occult systems is useful since proper terms are already defined there.

Also note that "lucid dreaming" is a new modern term, so occultists and theosophists would have probably used "astral projection" to describe what we know as "lucid dream" today. Methods of induction are similar or just the same, though some at least seem different at first glance. From that point of view, a lucid dream is equivalent to an astral projection, because conscious awareness is projected/focussed into the realm that would have been identified as the astral by it's traits. I think it was Monroe who gave an analogy to a radio that tunes into a certain frequency in order to receive it. That's what projection is basically about.