I don't like getting behind on threads

I could comment on many post here, but it would take so much time.

Right before clicking on this thread I thought: Hmm, this thread is going on a tangent..

And then you write: "Wow... didn't mean to spend so long on that completely tangential point!!" I have had many synchronicities in these past days regarding forums and discussions. Anyhow..

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post

Mmmmm... ok, really this idea has no place in a theory about non-spiritual reincarnation. That's no to say that you're WRONG... I think it really comes down to a matter of perspective. You believe consciousness is more essential than the physical body, the rational material atheist view says otherwise. I really don't want to argue the point with you... this thread wasn't meant for arguing about who's view is correct, but it was meant to START from the rational material atheist worldview. On the subject of exactly what consciousness IS or whether it can live on when the body dies, I don't pretend to any knowledge there but I subscribe to the scientific viewpoint that it's a function of the brain and most likely winks out like a candle when the brain dies. THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE Case... and I'd be perfectly willing to entertain other ideas... but I start with this idea because it's the most that science can say with any certainty. Anything beyond that is conjecture.
OK, but you are very wrong that everything else than (established) science
is conjecture.

Be a scientist with consciousness, with your own consciousness. Nobody else can be that scientist, because consciousness is personal. Go ahead of science, you don't have to wait decades before established/mainstream science comes to the right conclusion. Don't rely on science when fundamental assumptions are in play, they are just that, assumptions.

“Fundamental assumptions in general and scientific assumptions in particular are so hard to overturn because they are based on belief. Beliefs are so hard to overcome because they are irrational and therefore do not yield to logical argument.” - Thomas Campbell

I'll refer you to a scientific theory below, that will go beyond your imagination

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post

And... dig this... this is the coolest part of this whole theory.... IF REINCARNATION IS POSSIBLE IN A COMPLETELY ATHEIST, MATERIAL RATIONAL WORLD, THEN WE NEED NOT FEAR DEATH AT ALL. That's always been one of the biggest stumbling blocks of atheism, the fact that it essentially says when you die, that's it... game over... kaput! That idea really doesn't frighten me, in fact it seems to me LIFE is the part where we're subject to all kinds of suffering and pain (thought of course it's also the only part with love and joy and great sex etc.... Im not a nihilist or anything). But heck yeah... if I can live again (and again and again... ) then sign me up!!
We do not need to fear death, but I can't simply agree that an average atheist materialist would agree that your theory is compatible with their worldview. If I change my mind to an atheist materialist I would not be able to see the logic. Maybe we could get some of those to comment it.

A visualization of my point would be of someone trying to fit an square object into a triangle hole, like fighter pilots do in hypoxia training. One can't simply force the square through, it won't fit.

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
Ummm... so, do you need this report later tonight then? Wow... seriously??!! I need to figure out what all the scientists together have never been able to understand? Why is this onus on me? Really all that info isn't necessary to the theory I described... it begins with the only thing we really know about consciousness... that it exists. Science hasn't been able to tell us much more than that about it. So essentially all Im saying is that "This COULD happen". Im not saying "I KNOW it happens" or even that it PROBABLY happens. Though to me it seems more likely that it does than that it doesn't. That's just a gut feeling though.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't KNOW what awareness really is, how it comes into existence or what makes yours and mine different.
Hehe, I would then rather call it an idea than theory. A theory needs more than the "what if".

You say you have a gut feeling, I guess it's something alike "I know there must be more", yes there is, but keep making ideas and try to connect them, never get stuck as many do.

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
Then I don't think you're understanding quite what Im saying. You're obviously VERY CLOSE... but again, I wouldn't call consciousness physical... it's a state of awareness. The brain CREATES it, as you said, but the brain itself is NOT consciousness (if it creates it, how can it also BE it?). Hmmm... but I thank you for questions that make me think more deeply onto my beliefs and ideas. This is the only way to stimulate deeper thinking and to work toward a better understanding of the nature of reality. Ok... let me try this...
There is a difficulty in communication by words, first you have to express them (thought to word) and then I have to interpret them (word to thought), much misunderstanding is created in the process. We can only try.

I never said the brain creates consciousness, it does not. The brain is a virtual representation of a fragment of the Individualized Unit of Consciousness, you will become more familiar with that terminology later if you read my reference.

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
As you said, the brain CREATES and MAINTAINS awareness. As science knows, the brain runs on electrical impulses. So... is awareness itself then an electrical field? Or is AWARENESS really the subjective "sense of self" that we get... some pattern sustained WITHIN that fluctuating electrical field? Awww.... BRAIN... HURTING..... (I have no idea what that smiley is, but it looks like a brain with a tumor on it). But in the same sense that electric light needs a body (bulb) and a current (power) to maintain itself, I believe consciousness needs the body and the current to exist. When either stops, the consciousness winks out like a light. I'd LOVE to believe differently, and who knows, maybe soon I will... but as it stands right now, and especially for the purposes of this rational, material, atheist theory, I'm with the scientists on this one. Kill the body kill the mind.
Good questions, the electromagnetic field is not awareness nor consciousness, but a physical imprint of consciousness. Pattern is a keyword, and so is electrical impulses. Our brain consists of discrete units, neurons, that in totality makes up a complex system (the whole is more than the sum of its parts). The knowledge of this discrete property gives us valuable insight into the deep relation between data (information) and consciousness. Consciousness is at the most fundamental level just information.

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
Note... I AM open to other interpretations, especially on a subject as "subjective" as consciousness... I like to explore alternate theories and ideas. So I will look into some of these other ideas some of you have posted... but that's really beyond the scope of this particular theory.

I state once again....

IF REINCARNATION IS POSSIBLE EVEN IN A RATIONAL, MATERIAL ATHIST WORLDVIEW, THEN WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR FROM DEATH.

I think that explains why this theory is important to me.
Yes, explore alternative theories and idea, don't limit yourself

Sorry, I must post this one : "Your belief systems limit your reality to a sub-set of the solution space that does not contain the answer." - Thomas Campbell


Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post

Yes, as I mentioned before, I am interested. Feel free to PM me or post here if you want.
Good!

This 2.5 hour lecture is a very good introduction to the material. I hope it will turn your mind around like in a washing machine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akgCb...x=0&playnext=1

You can find more information by searching on this forum: "My Big TOE" or "Thomas Campbell", or course youtube or google will lead you to something too. Good luck!

Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
Who knows, maybe I'm headed toward just such a belief? But I really don't think my beliefs as expressed in this thread are conflicting. It seems perfectly logical to me that it can happen, and I really don[t see how it contradicts scientific ideas, since it doesn't require that a spirit live on after the body dies... it's about a completely new awareness being born, and the only thing that makes it YOU is the fact that you exist in it. Damn this ineffectual language with no words to express these ideas!!

... And sorry for the massive post!!
Don't head toward any belief, don't believe or disbelief anything without personal knowledge of it, but then it's a knowing and not a belief. Belief or disbelief (both are beliefs, the other is just anti-) are not productive, you shouldn't believe me either. One should be open-minded and sceptic at the same time, one does not limit oneself but neither does one mix fantasy with reality.

I am sorry that I could not go more in depth now, today I had a test-exam or whatever it's called in English where I have written about belief vs. science for 4-5 hours straight. If it was in English I would just have copy-pasted the 6.5 pages into here, as it is relevant to this thread, but unfortunately it's in Danish