Thread: Copenhagen Summit and US Senate Climate Legislation

Both far too disappointing for any real change to happen in the time it needs to happen to protect the environment from the worst collapse scenarios. Maybe we're too late to begin with, and most people are still blissfully ignorant of the plain truth.

http://gulfnews.com/business/opinion...ilure-1.557260

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8398510.stm

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...812836,00.html


I'm starting to lose hope entirely in our nation and the world's ability to wise up and change, which raises the question of will I even live out my natural lifetime? Or at least a happy, normal lifetime?

I take it you are not one of the people who think global man made climate change is a fruad?

I'm starting to lose hope entirely in our nation and the world's ability to wise up and change, which raises the question of will I even live out my natural lifetime? Or at least a happy, normal lifetime?

Why are you expecting a premature death? Your natural lifetime is about 30 years. Only in the industrial age has it lengthened.

There are much more pressing matters than the anthropic global warming hypothesis and most people including those in government are completely pig ignorant of them because of the inflated press coverage of global warming.

Most of them are linked to sustainability. The Earth is probably overpopulated as it is. In particular oil will become scarce very soon which will cause a lot of economic turmoil, and possibly a lot of warfare and social upheaval. Food and water and energy could all become scarce.

Very few governments are actually doing anything about this. The only ones which are are those which have very good political systems where the self interest of politicians doesn't have much sway, such as Switzerland and Norway which are quickly achieving oil free economies.

The UK and US are both pretty terrible in this respect. In the UK less than 1% of our energy is generated by renewables which really is a travesty (yet still our politicians have the hubris to lecture other poorer countries about global warming...). It'll be a pretty bad time when the shit finally hits the fan and we have to bend to the whims of Russia and the Middle East.

yep - i believe many of the participants of the summit arrived in limousines! how appropriate.

Originally Posted by Alric

I take it you are not one of the people who think global man made climate change is a fruad?

And I take it that you have the Fox News perspective that it is a fraud.

Facts from the EPA:

The decade ending next week was the hottest decade on record with 8 of the hottest 10 years having occurred since 2000.

2009 will end up as one of the 5 hottest years on record and scientists predict that, with a moderate El Nino, 2010 will break the record.

There is now more carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere than anytime in at least the last 2.1 million years. Yet we continue to emit more than 8 billion tons of CO2 per year from the burning of fossil fuels and global emissions are increasing.

For the third year in a row, the summer Arctic sea ice melt was well above normal, posing a mortal threat to Arctic wildlife like polar bears.

In Alaska, only 42% of polar bear cubs now survive their first year, down from 65% 15 years ago.

By the end of the century, with business-as-usual emissions, it may no longer be possible to produce some of the main tree crops currently grown in California and U.S. production of corn, soybeans and cotton could decrease as much as 82%.

Saying that man made climate change IS real is a problem for big oil companies, other major polluters and lobbyists, which is why naturally these people are trying to weaken these basic scientific findings.

Where's your evidence?

Where's your evidence?

Where's yours? You've not given any evidence for the AGW hypothesis. Just a random bunch of scientifically irrelevant facts.

In the UK this year's summer was very mild and this winter is causing havoc because it's colder than it's been for 20 years. The MET office predicted it was going to be scorching. Another epic fail from them in trying to make long term climate predictions.

There are now more estate agents on the planet then there have been for the past 5 billion years and yet we keep training more at an unprecedented rate.

The south pole is growing.

Polar bear populations always vary. There's even a biological law which says that populations always vary.

Oil companies have nothing to do with science.

As far as I can tell the only evidence for AGW are the computer models, and if you look at the email leaks, you'll see that they're a farce.

But like I say, I don't even care that much. We urgently need to reduce oil consumption and even when threatened with the end of the world politicans can't gain any inertia so there's really no fucking hope at all.

Tell me more on this fraud, please.

Talking about 'fraud' is one of the most disgusting misdirections I have ever witnessed. Don't you see it rotates around the term 'global warming' and eventually actually makes you say :

Originally Posted by Xei

You've not given any evidence for the AGW hypothesis. Just a random bunch of scientifically irrelevant facts.

on the biggest problems of our planet.

It's not about the 'global warming' as a consequence. It's about the constant environmental awareness increase, as the biggest threat to polluter lobbies. Of course they're putting out a fraud story.

But, OK, I would like to understand, who benefits on this global warming fraud? Maybe I missed on something important.

Polar bear populations always vary. There's even a biological law which says that populations always vary.

Yeah, biological laws and fur market. Humans rock.

All I know is, it is December 25th, and 20ºC (68ºF) here in Croatia, and it should be snowing. Pretty much everyone is feeling sick.

Just give it a few years. The global cooling scare will make its way back yet again. The extreme of the temperature scare has switched like seven times since the 1800's. At this point, I am not worried that the sky is falling. "Wolf" has been cried way too many times.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/spec...fireandice.asp

I was a child in the 1970's, and the environmental activism fad of the era was this...



http://www.infowars.com/cooling-tren...eory-in-doubt/

Go ahead and call bullshit on Al Gore, the grand wizard of the global warming fad, because he is quite full of it. The temperature of the core of Earth is is in the low thousands.

http://www.ehow.com/about_4660925_te...ter-earth.html

Now here's Al Whore with his true ignorance...



The godfather of global warming obviously isn't such an expert on Earth temperature. By the way, global warming is happening on Mars.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

Originally Posted by Alric

I take it you are not one of the people who think global man made climate change is a fruad?

global warming global warming global warming global warming, republicans versus democrats? fox versus cnn?

It's getting sickening!

listen people! the climate destruction IS NOT ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING. The reality is forests are disappearing at an alarming rate. The reality is the oceans are dying. We are over fishing throwing off the entire eco system of the ocean out of balance. Entire species that we love to eat, like tuna, might go extinct.

However, the real concern isn't that a single species will disappear. The real concern is how interconnected the entire ocean is. The ocean has no 'walls' or borders like we do here on land. Several species roam from sea to sea, affecting all other species. The loss of a single species creates a chain reaction that is more real and dangerous than anything we have seen in an isolated forest.

The danger is real.......the very basic life force of the ocean is dying. The primitive plant life of the ocean.

The primitive plant life of the ocean is dying because of several factors. Pollution for one, we have treated the ocean is our sewer. We owe our very existence to this primitive life. We owe our oxygen to them. And if they continue to die in this massive extinction. HUMANITY WILL JOIN THEM.

They produce the majority of our oxygen. Together with the destruction of forests, wild grasses, detoxing swamps, and the primitive plant life of the ocean - we will suffocate ourselves and go extinct with the dinosaurs.

This isn't a myth. This is real. This is happening right now.

Do you understand?

Do you or do you not?





If you don't, it's not that complicated. This is very simple science. The earth is a tiny little island. This meant that life, all life on the earth have to share the same resources. Life answered this dilemma by evolving a system of sharing resources.

The sharing of resources, the sharing of energy, is fundamental for survival for every species on the earth.

The sharing of resources for survival is evident in the intimate relationships between plants and animals. Plants give off oxygen. That is their 'waste' product. Animals breathe oxygen, which they need to survive. Animals give off carbon dioxide as their waste product. Plants need the waste product of animals, carbon dioxide, to photosynthesize. See the happy little circle??? Should all the animals of the earth magically disappear, then our plants too would die.

Do you get it? EVERY oxygen breathing animal is dependent on plant life, especially the primitive plant life of the ocean. And as well, plant life is also dependent on animals. The two evolved together and not independently.

Sharing, cooperation.

People need to pull their heads of our their asses and wake up. We are a part of the earth and we are a part of it's ecosystem, not separate from it. Everything we do effects everything else. This is much bigger than some climate change. Were talking about the fundamental balance of life here. Were talking about the extinction of humanity.










The change that needs to take place is our very fundamental beliefs. Right now people view saving the environment some sort of 'cause'. Like giving money to the homeless. The problem with this mentally that it is a 'cause', is that 'causes' are personal. So someone thinks we should give money to homeless, others think homeless are just ass lazy and need to get a bloody job already.

This mentality that saving the environment is a 'cause' is self evident in how we treat saving the environment. It's thought of as small little meager actions you do throughout the day...Like recycling a bottle. Or not taking a shower today , who knows.

Those trying to save the environment also tend to tell us "just do little things, even the little things count"

But it doesn't matter if everyone recycles. It doesn't matter if we do all of those little things, those little sacrifices. It doesn't change the fundamental belief that nature is separate from us. It doesn't change the fundamental belief that our profit, our capitalistic ways, our pleasure and leisure come before nature. It doesn't change the fundamental beliefs that we can OWN nature. That we can literally OWN a trees life. Literally OWN a river, a lake, a forest.............................

That we have the right to chop down a tree just because someone didn't want it in their yard. Or yet worse, that we have the right to copyright a seed, forcing farmers to buy the new seed every year instead of letting mother nature pollinate and create free seeds.

When you understand that the fundamental 'law of the jungle' is sharing and cooperating, then you understand that this idea of ownership is actually ridiculous and insane. Lakes, rivers, forests, even a single tree belongs to everyone and no one.

It's our entire belief system that needs to change.

When we change our relationship with nature, we also change our relationship with ourselves and each other. Virtually all problems plaguing humanity stem from our insane and unnatural fundamental beliefs.