Thread: Judging Pedophiles...

Anyone any thoughts? Does anyone know pedophilia is something you can have from birth, like homosexuality?[/b]

I really feel that this gets to the point.
You will inevitably have the argument of nurture vs. nature here.

pedophilia - Viewed in society as very bad
homosexuality - becoming increasingly exhibited and excepted. BUT!!! (not politically correct to talk about)

Both = As we know any number of things can go wrong at birth, One kidney, one arm. Physical defects. easy to see and understand.
Then we get into the brain. Another organ BTW. One in which is X number amounts more complex than our other organs.
Would that not give rise to the probability for possible hard wiring to also be defective at birth? I would certainly think so.

This fits so complementary to another Post.

I don't think it really matters if pedophiles are "born" with it, or not. At least, in regards to judging their actions. The fact is, they might not be able to choose if they are attracted to kids, but they can choose their actions. They are able to restrain themselves from victimizing children... which makes it pretty irrelevant whether or not they were born with it. Even if criminals had it as a "gene," they are still able to control it. It may be difficult but they can indeed

Originally Posted by ataraxis

I don't think it really matters if pedophiles are "born" with it, or not. At least, in regards to judging their actions. The fact is, they might not be able to choose if they are attracted to kids, but they can choose their actions. They are able to restrain themselves from victimizing children... which makes it pretty irrelevant whether or not they were born with it. Even if criminals had it as a "gene," they are still able to control it. It may be difficult but they can indeed[/b]

Could that apply to gay individuals too?

Do you think they can be rehabilitated ( by what ever means, I.E. medications, therapy.)

Originally Posted by Neruo

However, can you really blame pedophiles for being pedophiles, assuming they were born that way?[/b]

If it is 100% out of their control, why would you blame them? Punish them, stop them from doing it again - yes. Blame - no. It sucks that they were hardwired to rape kids, but thats just not fucking on.

Do you think they can be rehabilitated ( by what ever means, I.E. medications, therapy.)[/b]

Nah, all attempts have failed - it's quite damaging to the people being 'rehabilitated' and it just doesn't work. Why would you want to rehabilitate homosexuals anyway, it's not like there's anything wrong with it.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

I don't think it really matters if pedophiles are "born" with it, or not. At least, in regards to judging their actions. The fact is, they might not be able to choose if they are attracted to kids, but they can choose their actions. They are able to restrain themselves from victimizing children... which makes it pretty irrelevant whether or not they were born with it. Even if criminals had it as a "gene," they are still able to control it. It may be difficult but they can indeed[/b]

This is nearly exactly what I was going to say.

BUT I believe in the majority of cases, pedophiles were victims of pedophilia as children. The vast VAST majority of cases, from my understanding. So, while it's a possibility that it's something that is inborn, more likely the case is that it's a repeating cycle.

Also, I think pedophilia is more of a "fetish". I don't know how this correlates to homosexuality, but from the information I've encountered (television, articles on the internet), fetishes are usually developed from something that happened at a young age to a person while they were aroused and it just 'stuck' so-to-speak.

Anyway, I don't understand why, if a person is a pedophile, they can't just play act out their fantasies with a consenting adult. They certainly must remember how much they hated being victimized as a child (unless it's a repressed memory, I suppose....).

thats like saying you are born being a pervert, or born to watch pornography. pedophile is something you do, not a sexual orientation.

I think culture has a lot to do with it, and also what culture portrays as sexual. for example, 'sexy' anime girls, with big breasts and childlike faces! it gets into peoples heads.

also pedophile is drawn as comic books in japan. while some people argue these pedophile comic books *shota* help prevent pedos from watching the real thing - I think just like any sexual comic book it just peeks interest and makes you want more of it.

I can definitely say that after coming to Japan and residing here for 3 years now that certain urges you didn't even fathom having before start popping up thanks to this culture's portrayal of young girls in sexual ways. When high school girls walk around all year in short ass skirts I think anyone will eventually catch themselves looking.

I'm talking about high school girls that roll their skirts up as a rite of passage when not in school. The older the student the higher they roll the skirt.

"Micro mini skirt draws perverts..."

I'm NOT talking about the long skirts they make middle schoolers wear...ick...


So yeah, long story short, we are products of our environment. You are not born into pedophilia it is a learned tendency that the individual decides to run with or not. For being in Japan and talking to other foreigners living here, I would consider myself normal for occasionally looking at high school girls. It doesn't go any further than that. However, I can see where one would have to make the active decision to stop themselves or not.

Originally Posted by Neruo

However, can you really blame pedophiles for being pedophiles, assuming they were born that way?

But it really lies at the basis of a larger problem: If someone does a criminal act, like kills or steals, can you always blame him/her? What part of his/her actions are caused by the genes they 'just have'? And what part is in the hand of their parents, or environment?[/b]

"Blame" doesn't matter. Whether it is nature or nurture doesn't even matter, either way it is not their fault what made them that way, right? I don't even believe in free will (because I think that everything we do is a result of nature with an influence of nurture, with no need for or source of "free will", but that is a different argument), so I definitely can't "blame" them.

However, I don't think that matters. Anyone who harms other people must be prevented from doing that, especially those that would harm the weakest members of society in the most horrible ways. From what I know of pedophiles, they are unable to rehabilitated. They are never cured. I can actually imagine an excuse for somebody who kills somebody, and I know there are some people who commit robberies, etc. who probably can be considered safe, but from what I've learned pedophiles are forever. I'm not sure that castration even cures them. Pedophiles themselves admit they cannot stop it.

So....lock them up, throw away the key. Why does it matter if they are to "blame" for their actions or not, especially if they can't be cured? It may be unfortunate for the individual, but it is more important to protect the innocent.

(Pedophelia has nothing to do with homosexuality (who cares, nature or nurture? It is a matter of freedom), and nothing to do with post-pubertal girls acting sexy. These subjects shouldn't even be included in the topic.)

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

(Pedophelia has nothing to do with homosexuality (who cares, nature or nurture? It is a matter of freedom), and nothing to do with post-pubertal girls acting sexy. These subjects shouldn't even be included in the topic.)[/b]

ah, but these arent just any girls that were brought up - they are japanese girls. just look at japanese anime - hell - adult swim just an hour ago gave a fanservice shot of some an anime girls undies who is dressed just like those highschoolers.

japan is breeeeding pedos, and its starts with the ridiculous highschool uniform that girls have to wear. its where it all starts! the anime girl wearing the uniform with big breasts is a good cover for any japanese hentai
http://www.freebento.com/store/files/t_622.jpg

legal soft porn of highschoolers?
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archi...0dm999000c.html

thats only one example out of thousands of soft porn displaying japanese girls in their highschool uniforms. this is how a pedo is bred. one of the known results in japan? train groping!
http://www.japanfortheuninvited.com/articl...%20groping.html

ofcourse, im not saying only perverts and pedos exist in japan - Im just trying to show how culture creates it, and japans culture creates it in various ways. not just the girls uniforms. and not just the men either.

from japan we get yaoi and shota comic books, and this is where the female pedos are made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi

original yaois mostly feature consenting males. but fanart yaoi tends to feature younger boys - well these comic books aren't being created by adolescent boys discovering their sexuality. they are being created by older women. most people dont see this as pedophile in nature, but if a bunch of older men starting drawing twelve to fifteen year old girls going at eachother - most people would think of him as a pedo.

yaois, especially fan yaois also tend to feature rape. *im not trying to bash original yaois which are supposed to be genuine love stories*

however, yaoi rape among teenage boys gets the 'ok' on the basis that the two boys featured in the story were both teenagers or the same age, and no older male was involved.

but this is where shota comes in, whos roots started in yaoi. there are two variants of shota - one, a younger boy being raped by a much older man or very very young boys - around the age of ten analing eachother. shota is concidered the most extreme graphic comic book of all - that even western yaoi addicts tend to shy away from with its obvious pedophile content. and when some of the most admitingly perverted westerners shy away from a comic book, that should be a sign!

while some people argue its harmless becuase its a comic book - I still think it breeds pedos. afterall, yaoi addicts admit yaoi gave them perverted thoughts and some cant see any two male best friends the same! while it might be normal for a young female to have thoughts about two sexy guys, whats normal about any female having thoughts about a ten year old boy being raped by an older male, and enjoying those thoughts? what happens when these older females have their own son, and bathe them?

(in some wierd way shota and yaoi rape are revenge by females for being the sexual target for so long. no mans ass in comic books are safe anymore!&#33

anyways, I'm just trying to show how culture does breed it. I dont think pedophile is so much of a problem as it is the culture, since the culture doesnt just give rise to perverts - but to rapists as well. thats the real problem!

I remeber there was a person on this forum who told me he was like that. He sounded like he was 100% convinced that you can do that to children without it harming them in anyway. Infact he argued it was a good thing and helped them if you did it the right way. He kinded sounded kind of serious about that and said he never wanted to hurt anyone. He also swore he never did anything illegal, because he didn't want to take the chance of hurting anyone.

Actually I forget what he said but I think he might of had it happen to him when he was a little kid too, and thats why he thought it was ok, because he thought he himself turned out ok.

Originally Posted by Alric

I remeber there was a person on this forum who told me he was like that. He sounded like he was 100% convinced that you can do that to children without it harming them in anyway. Infact he argued it was a good thing and helped them if you did it the right way. He kinded sounded kind of serious about that and said he never wanted to hurt anyone. He also swore he never did anything illegal, because he didn't want to take the chance of hurting anyone.

Actually I forget what he said but I think he might of had it happen to him when he was a little kid too, and thats why he thought it was ok, because he thought he himself turned out ok.[/b]

Ah yeah, that is pretty sick. I guess that some pedophiles just ... disconnect from reality. They make it 'okay' in their mind. They are delusional in a way. Interesting that he was, in his mind, a loving person. But in reality, a total asshole. This is even more interesting: If someone thinks he is doing the right thing, he can have the best of morals, he just wouldn't know. Like in hypnosis: It is unlikely you will kill your mom if the person hypnotizing tells you you should, but if he makes you believe your mom is Satan, and you really believe it, you will, since you think you are doing the right thing. Like how cults work. Anyhow, I guess it still doesn't matter, they should be helped and put away, no matter or it is their fault...

Also, since a lot of pedophiles are that way because they themselves were abused, that would mean it is (completely) 'nurture'. Doesn't that mean that it Can be 'treated'? At least way better then homosexuality, that really is something in your physical brain, yet some religious groups try to 'cure' them.

I guess children should be made more aware that if they get abused, they should report it. Like an anonymous line for kids to call when abused.. or something at least. I think most kids are to ashamed or confused to tell they have been abused, and I think if there is any time when you can 'cure' a pedophile that came to be trough nature it is in his own childhood...

Originally Posted by Alric

thats like saying you are born being a pervert, or born to watch pornography. pedophile is something you do, not a sexual orientation.[/b]

I think, at least at some pedophiles, it really is a sexual orientation. A perversion is often just an amplifier of your sexual orientation. If you like women, and get into SM, you don't all of a sudden fancy men or young boys. I think at pedophiles their attracting to young kids lies at the basis of their sexuality. I don't think they can change liking young kids, they can just ignore it. (And seek help, preferably.)

I think culture has a lot to do with it, and also what culture portrays as sexual. for example, 'sexy' anime girls, with big breasts and childlike faces! it gets into peoples heads.[/b]

lol hentai. You don't seriously think That makes people pedophile? I agree that often it are young girls hentai depicts, but most of the time they have big boobs. Just because that girl kelly from 'saved by the bell' was hot doesn't mean people become pedophile.

There is a fine line between Real pedophilia, and just being acted to younger girls. I mean, If I am 80, I still am going to find 20 year old girls attractive, girls are most pretty around that age. The mind of the man is programmed to prefer girls from a certain age, young girls. Lets say I am 30, and I see this attractive lady flying past on her hoover-board (lol hooverboard), I might be attacked to her. However, for all I know she is just a 17 year old girl that looks older. If I knew that, I probably wouldn't want to have sex with her.

Okay hard time getting my point across: Men like girls that seem very fertile, because of evolution. Young girls are often good at having children. However: Not too young. No normal man is attacked by a boob-less dwarf of a 6-year-old. That is the difference from men jacking off at hentai depicting girls that maybe look 16, and pedophiles having sex with 6-year olds.

Pedophilia is on a whole other level.

Still, hentai is nasty.

also pedophile is drawn as comic books in japan. while some people argue these pedophile comic books *shota* help prevent pedos from watching the real thing - I think just like any sexual comic book it just peeks interest and makes you want more of it.[/b]

I really don't think so actually, I don't think people get drawn to pedophilia, I think they are pedophiles and seek some sort of child (pornography) themselves. I wonder what japans pedophile-number is comparing to other countries..

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

However, I don't think that matters. Anyone who harms other people must be prevented from doing that, especially those that would harm the weakest members of society in the most horrible ways. From what I know of pedophiles, they are unable to rehabilitated. They are never cured. I can actually imagine an excuse for somebody who kills somebody, and I know there are some people who commit robberies, etc. who probably can be considered safe, but from what I've learned pedophiles are forever. I'm not sure that castration even cures them. Pedophiles themselves admit they cannot stop it.[/b]

I couldn't agree w/ you more. Pedifiles should not be allowed to walk the streets even if their 'condition' is something they were born w/.
Also, it is a crime against humanity to allow people who have committed horrible crimes like these out of prison. A man could go out and rape 6 kids, get sent to jail, and still one day be a free man. There is just something very wrong about that. The gov't is just too lenient on crimes.

Originally Posted by Neruo

lol hentai. You don't seriously think That makes people pedophile? I agree that often it are young girls hentai depicts, but most of the time they have big boobs. Just because that girl kelly from 'saved by the bell' was hot doesn't mean people become pedophile.[/b]

ah, I dont think hentai makes pedophiles - just your average pervert. but I was trying to relate hentai in the culture of japan and how its not just in, the adult video section. its more assimiliated in the general culture than it is in america. for example, some tourists come back saying how they were shocked that public restrooms had hentai comic books and pornographic magazines.

concerned japanese parents started complaining that hentai was too readily available in japan, with nearly no age limit. there are supposed to be age limit laws on hentai - but from what Ive heard these laws are not being inforced. for example - hentai vending machines

http://www.photomann.com/japan/machines/

or the infamous dirty panty machine?

(also, not all hentai has big breasted, developed women. a popular form of hentai is any anime character. pokemon hentai anyone??)

Japan in the last twenty years has shown an incredible rise in its pornography. Im not saying however that hentai directly creates pedophiles or rapists *well technically rape is about control not sex*. But I think if a culture isnt careful of what it says are ok fantasies, someone else might intrepret this as ok behavior instead.

I think the cultural problem here is not that so many adults are getting into the porno, but how it is so readily available.

For example, when yaoi started - it was secretive and exclusive between adult women. Men didnt know about it, and neither did the teenagers. Now, even obsessive anime fans in the west at the age of 12 can know about yaoi, and can read it. The adults can be ignorant and think, this isnt any different then their own sexual fantasies. But twelve year olds arent adults, and their minds are so easily imprinted. A sexual fantasy, can easily become a sexual obsession.

Now, shota was treated the same as yaoi - a thing between adult 'mature' women. If yaoi has leeked out into the general public, and is accesible by young minds, is shota also? What happens when a bunch of curious twelve year olds start reading shota? Will they have the maturity to look the other way, or have the will power to stop themselves from fantasizing about this 'new' thing they were introduced to? I dont think so.

There are a lot of concerned japanese parents becuase of things like this, becuase young minds can be easily imprinted. For example, a japanese contempory artist came to my city and she is some what famous now. In her gallery reception, displaying anime characters, she said her parents forbid her to watch anime out of fear it would demoralize her.

So I think culture can play a role in pedophile, if we dont look after where the adult content floats to.

I tend more to think that there probably *are* more pedophiles in the US than let on, and that many *are* controlling their "urges" simply because they could get caught. So, in Japan, maybe the fact that it's not as "taboo" means that there are just as many pedophiles there as there are here, but there it's just not as "discouraged".

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

"Blame" doesn't matter. Whether it is nature or nurture doesn't even matter, either way it is not their fault what made them that way, right?

However, I don't think that matters. Anyone who harms other people must be prevented from doing that, especially those that would harm the weakest members of society in the most horrible ways.

So....lock them up, throw away the key. Why does it matter if they are to "blame" for their actions or not, especially if they can't be cured? It may be unfortunate for the individual, but it is more important to protect the innocent.[/b]

I agree. So do most people in our society. That is why we have an 'insanity' defense in court.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

I agree. So do most people in our society. That is why we have an 'insanity' defense in court.[/b]

I'm not a lawyer or a psychiatrist, but I think an insanity defense is for people who are psychotic or otherwise not in control of their actions when they commit a crime. Then they can either be excused or be treated. I don't think it applies to those who are in their normal frame of mind when they commit the crime, however sick/immoral/etc. they might be. Otherwise, anybody could say, yea I did it because I'm crazy.

A lot of people do go for the insanity defense. Many people in this thread have stated that pedophiles cannot control their actions. The point of all this was merely to point out that we do have legal precedent for such disgusting behavior, that allows criminals to be locked up.

What if pedophilia comes from repressing one's sexuality. Maybe pedophiles are people who repressed some aspect of their sexuality and then turned it to children, because children can't defend themselves and most times will keep quiet about it. If you think about it, there's a lot of people in our society that are ashamed of something about their sexuality...
Just as guys who hit their wives because they probably have authority or violence related issues and can't seem to work them out.
Of course, just like these guys, pedophiles would have to be extremelly disturbed individuals.
Something that also corroborates this is the fact that there are different kinds of pedophiles with different "tastes"...

Then that would be a matter for a psychiatrist to deal with, after the criminal has been locked away.

Or maybe after the sexual repression turned into pedophilia, there's not much that can be done. At least there's very low record of pedophiles actually changing their behaviour...

I'm not saying I'm right about this, it's just my theory, and I also believe that some cases may came from mental disorders.

Some would argue that all instances of pedophilia are the result of a depraved mentality.

Seriously guys, get some Avatars. Without them, you guys are hard to keep apart, and you look n00bful

You could learn to detect the patterns in our posts. Or just look at the names...

But I see your point.

Yeah, I'll get one someday. Just been lazy