Precognition - seeing your future in your dreams

[cawdorgraves]

Today I finally thought it was time to do a little google searching to see what I come up with. Well I have discovered that the term to define what I experience is called Precognition. This seems to happen to be me quite often throughout the year. Now I don't happen to record or write down these moments, but when I get to that point in time or place that is attached to the dream sequence that I lived/experienced my body and mind are quickly able to recall the moment that this same time/place/event took place that I saw in my dream. Sorry my sentences tend to be long winded. There are numerous occurrences of this happening in my life that I can't deny it or disbelieve it isn't true. But that doesn't mean I am not in control of my life/destiny. Clearly I have to live my life and make decisions daily that lead me to these moments that I have envisioned. what is interesting is that I dno't see faces or actual people. In truth I see a blurred peripheral view of a moment. Maybe 2-5 seconds of the event happen. It is as though a video sequence is being played for me. I can feel wind/air currents, sounds, smells, light, clothing, etc of the moment. But not faces or absolute elements. And yet, when I am living the moment for real I know that that exactly is the dream sequence that I was shown. Makes me wonder why those moments in time were revealed to me earlier cause many of the moments have been so very simple, while one specific moment was such a critical time in my life. Critical moment: After a 30' fall from a chair lift that a rope happened to break during a chair lift evacuation scinerio as a ski patroller I saw 3 firemen running towards me in their brown jackets through weeds. Well in my dream sequence I was on my side and saw 3 brown jacket figures running towards me through weeds. Pretty amazing! this was the first real time that I recall such an experience happening. others have been - moments at work or at a location that doesn't appear to be truly significant. Yet further proves to me anyhow that there is a matter of great energy out there. Something else I experienced after my 30' fall was I could see Aura's around buildings (churches especially) and people. I have never been in that state of mind ever again. Am curious what people think of these experiences - believers or disbelievers. Feel free to please give feedback. ~ CG

[Zoth]

I don't believe in precognition, there's no valid evidence for it so far. I encourage you to check this amazing video on the subject that sums the principle flaws on that kind of thinking. But allow me to go into a bit more detail over your post, since you're asking for disbelievers opinions as well Well I have discovered that the term to define what I experience is called Precognition. This seems to happen to be me quite often throughout the year. Now I don't happen to record or write down these moments, but when I get to that point in time or place that is attached to the dream sequence that I lived/experienced my body and mind are quickly able to recall the moment that this same time/place/event took place that I saw in my dream. This is essentially not true. You might indeed be experiencing a "supernatural" phenomenon (highly unlikely), but it is not precognition. "precognition (from the Latin præ-, “before,” + cognitio, “acquiring knowledge”), also called future sight,[1] and second sight,[2][3][4] is a type of extrasensory perception that would involve the acquisition or effect of future information that cannot be deduced from presently available and normally acquired sense-based information or laws of physics and/or nature." As you can see, precognition refers to the acquisition before-hand. You can't call it much of a precognition if you're merely identifying past memories, in this case from your dreams. This makes it so that you're ignoring most of the issue. Like you can see in that video I linked, you might think that you're experiencing things once again (that already happened in your dreams) but this is flawed due: - You don't account for the millions of things that were not present in the waking life but were in your dreams, so you close yourself to the possibility of those events are nothing more than coincidences, as they in not any aspect point to any precognition/clairvoyance skills. - You seem to ignore a very important aspect of the so called precognitions: they often (if not every time) relate to memory and judgement of probability biases that occur in humans. There are many studies about false memories, deja vu, and other brain phenomenons that are far more likely to be the cause of your experiences. Basically, people see something which relates to a past memory, and they convince themselves that the two events are exactly the same, especially because they seem so alike. It's very hard to convince these people because the experience might be so obvious that you most likely don't stop to think "is this really precognition?". It happens every time with illusions as well. Something else I experienced after my 30' fall was I could see Aura's around buildings (churches especially) and people. I have never been in that state of mind ever again. This also doesn't indicate anything supernatural, but merely something at most that you can't explain. Even though I understand it's quite frustrating that our word and experience isn't enough to convince skeptic people, you have to understand that are literally hundreds of other possible explanations, far more simple and frequent, that might explain what happened. This is also very important to notice due the tricks of perception our brain can go into in consequence of expectations. The deal is that no one has ever demonstrated precognition skills in any controlled situation. Along with many other competing theories on the subject, these make my reasons for disbelieving. Besides, imagine the amount of people we have in the world. Now picture the amount of information we receive during the course of our lives and the experiences we go through. Once your start to see the big picture, you will realize that these coincidences are far more likely than you'd think, and it would be extremely weird if these odd events didn't occur in the thousands every day across the globe.

[tsiouz]

Maybe the fact that you experience something like that,which can be wonderfull of course, Is the fact that maybe you don't have any control in your life. And maybe you have a rare chance to realize the chartography of yourself in which you walking. You know im just saying. Still don't focus on the events since are not significant, maybe it is something else yourself is been trying to tell you.

[cawdorgraves]

I am not here to disprove or prove the events and numerous occurrences that I proclaim to be precognition. As I stated - I am leaving the door open for people to respond as I expect there will be more nay sayers than others who share similar experiences. Disbelievers will continue to be that way without allowing the possibility of it being true because Religion/Science/etc dictate that something has to exist in order for us to believe. Yet numerous things occur in our world that the mass majority don't truly grasp but we accept and apply these values, beliefs, results, etc to our daily regimes because we don't have the capability to study, analyze, develop ourselves to find our own answers so we take it that if the masses accept it than it is acceptable for the most part. Consider a tangent here acronyms or rap slang words - in the 80's and early 90's this language was totally regarded as a joke. But by present day standards it is accepted as the way society communicates. LAZY and poor! So here I again return to my case in point - I have many times experienced and lived moments of my future life in my dreams. This isn't an example, but say the scene is I am typing away at my desk looking at my right monitor as I am now - well I can see the peripheral view of the top frame of this forum = colors, tones, hues, images, while the left side is the other open document. So come the point in time that this actually occurs - my body tingles, and I can feel a moment of energy/deja vu which recalls the dream. It is super trippy when it happens and if the moment happened to involve others i will often make a comment that I knew or heard what they were going to say from my previous experience. I think to do a proper controlled experience of this occurrence would be falsified and manipulated cause we don't have control over when these moments occur in our dreams. At least I don't at present see how I could predict when such an event would occur. That would take away the surprise of having these moments. Is there anyone else out there who cares to share their own similar experience such as what I am describing?

[tsiouz]

yes. And i believe the way you discribing things and what are you saying is true. but what im just saying is that maybe yourself is trying to tell you something else. Propably because you don't see people in these events.

[YAD]

@cawdorgraves - I have had precognitive dreams since I was 15 years old, now 41 although much less frequent the reality of these experiences are not diminished by the would-be skeptical arguments that I am sure will be raised by those who have not had any legitimate precognitive experience. Having studied the phenomena for over 26 years the obvious case for those who have it, it's very real. Often it appears as the deja vu experience where at the time you experience Deja, the memories link back to something that you have dreamed. Dr. Art Funkhouser has a paper on frequency worth checking out: The frequency of déjà vu (déjà rêve) and the effects of age, dream recall frequency and personality factors | Funkhouser | International Journal of Dream Research There are a lot of factors to concider why people don't have them and others do, and they are very self-evident in our culture: 1.) We are very dream illiterate. 2.) We enter into sleep-induced amnesia with brain activity slowing in the Temporal Frontal Lobes and the Hippocampus. Recent research into REM sleep indicates that the majority of our dream memory is taking place in the frontal temporal lobes hence short-term memory and also why temporal lobe epilepsy is frequently associated with deja vu likely stimulating amnesia triggers. The amnesia is the big barrier for most. 3.) Waking induced amnesia caused by rapidly waking up due to alarm or other can cause dream recall to collapse back into amnesia. 4.) Dreams are not a single stream, rather a bandwidth of data and our mind is not adept at perceiving more than one frequency of the bandwidth at a time so to speak, and only a very specific bandwidth deals with precognition where as the rest of the data does not. It's where one's attention is focused that yields the results. 5.) Personification of dream data by the ego. This is where we project our beliefs/fantasies/desires/emotions over the dream-data scrambling it into symbolism and non-relative data. I'm sure there are more but those cite some of what I feel are the biggest barriers to accessing precognitive data via dreaming. There have been ample studies over the years, precognition being talked about since the written record with numerous accounts and in the modern day large precognitive dream databases exist et al. The most important verification is always the experience of having it first-hand. In my opinion, that is where you separate the wheat from the chaff and scrub away the "believers" and the ones in the know. I am in the know. No need for erroneous belief here. You can read my abstract, it's public domain and free here: http://www.youaredreaming.org/assets/pdf/deja_reve.pdf

[AndresLD]

Well, it seems as someone predicted the next pope a month ago! fc3u1b304sad8yhrs6ai.jpg The tweet translates to: "My boyfriend woke up last night at 4am, saying he dreamed of a new Pope named "Francisco I", and today, Benedict resigned" And what do you know... today the new pope was elected, his name: Francis I Coincidence? I'm my opinion, precognitive dreams are real.

[shadowofwind]

I've had hundreds of precognitive dreams. Yeah I'm aware of lots of possible fallacies....extrapolation from past experience, creating self-fulfilling prophecies, selective attention, arbitrarily reading facts to metaphors....In every thread like this one someone brings them up as if maybe I've never thought of any of them before. I agree completely with YAD's points 4 and 5, with the use of the word "frequency" being figurative only. This fits my experience quite well. zoth00: If you're still reading, and if you're interested in the subject, I can describe some significant anecdotal evidence if you want, maybe offline because some of it involves information private to other people. I can't prove that I'm not lying, but its stuff that seems to at least pass the smell test for most scientifically inclined people, and might point in the direction of having your own verifiable experiences so that you know for sure.

[jorjelly]

I just want to add my two cents. I have temporal lobe epilepsy. I have been having seizures since I was 10 years old. I am now 26. I am a skeptic--I do not believe things are absolutely certain unless there is measurable proof. Precognition? You really can't measure it. I've never said that I'm psychic, but I have revealed my experiences to a select few. I can say for certain that I had these dreams. I cannot say for certain why or attribute meaning to them. I have been having dreams that come true in real life ever since I was a young kid. I too have had experiences where I remember the dream as it's occurring. That might just be deva-vu. However, I have still had plenty of dreams that I remembered and was aware of PRIOR to them actually happening in real life. These were events that I did not have an affect on and mostly happened to other people. Trust me, I always try to find reasons to explain how it can be happening. But there's just been too many to excuse them as coincidence. They happen to me so often that I do not tell anyone about it. I AM A SKEPTIC. I still don't know what I believe. I do know that these things happened to me. I remembered the dreams, and then almost always the next day it would occur in real life. I don't know why it happens to me, and maybe I am crazy. However, I know that this must mean something. I just don't know what, and I might never really know. Just keep an open mind. I always do. You should never cling to one belief and ignore other ideas that may also be valid. After all, if you were never able to use your sense of smell, then someone that had a good sense of smell would be able to predict things before you... smell french fries before seeing McDonald's, etc. Is it the same idea? Maybe...maybe we just can't measure it yet. I wish I knew the answers, regardless of what they told me.

[Blackfox]

All time happens now at all times

[Higat]

I have had quite a few precognitive dreams, actually I just realized I had a Lucid precognitive dream a while back : I was in Rome, Italy, and there I saw my sister' s friend ( which I really don' t dream about often ), she was the only person I could recognize. So yesterday I skimmed through everyone of my Lucids and I came to this dream; I knew I once dreamed of this city but I forgot that this girl was in it, and that' s when I realized that it was precognitive : she actually moved in Rome weeks ago ! I remember that other precognitive dream, this one was pretty accurate, compared to the few others : I basically dreamed that an handicapped girl was annoying me, and that despite her blond mum' s remarks, she would keep bother me . The next day, while I was walking my dog, a three legged dog gets crazy and plays with my dog (crazy too )for awhile. I really don' t enjoy talking to random people when I walk my dog and neither does the dog' s (blond) master, so we try to pull them away but the dogs would keep jump toward each others ... Anyways, pretty much everyone of my precognition were kinda useless, and even if they were I still have to recognize them to make them really important.

[Darkmoon77]

I have precognition too, and it's exactly as you said: 2-5 secounds of anything really, then i'll wake up. And days, weeks, months will go by, and then one day it will, happen except with more detail. I've been able to do it since i was 5 or 6, the first one was seeing some sand fall in a puddle. I can hear the people talking and speaking, and know who they are in my dreams, unlike you. So i am a believer, because I 'm one too. P.S.- changes in location affect ot a lot, do have any idea why?

[dreamcatcher81]

Albert Einstein and the Fabric of Time- " ...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

[bennerman]

I can tell you that I have experienced this quite a few times. Unfortunately, I can't pretend to understand what it means. I wish you luck, though.

[juroara]

"precognition (from the Latin præ-, “before,” + cognitio, “acquiring knowledge”), also called future sight,[1] and second sight,[2][3][4] is a type of extrasensory perception that would involve the acquisition or effect of future information that cannot be deduced from presently available and normally acquired sense-based information or laws of physics and/or nature." As you can see, precognition refers to the acquisition before-hand. You can't call it much of a precognition if you're merely identifying past memories, in this case from your dreams. This makes it so that you're ignoring most of the issue. Like you can see in that video I linked, you might think that you're experiencing things once again (that already happened in your dreams) but this is flawed due: - You don't account for the millions of things that were not present in the waking life but were in your dreams, so you close yourself to the possibility of those events are nothing more than coincidences, as they in not any aspect point to any precognition/clairvoyance skills. - You seem to ignore a very important aspect of the so called precognitions: they often (if not every time) relate to memory and judgement of probability biases that occur in humans. There are many studies about false memories, deja vu, and other brain phenomenons that are far more likely to be the cause of your experiences. Basically, people see something which relates to a past memory, and they convince themselves that the two events are exactly the same, especially because they seem so alike. It's very hard to convince these people because the experience might be so obvious that you most likely don't stop to think "is this really precognition?". It happens every time with illusions as well. All I'm hearing is "people have false memories so they falsely remember a dream that resembled that moment"??? Which doesn't even account for dreamers who actually log their dreams and have no need to rely on false memory to verify the precognitive dream. Don't get me wrong, I understand the argument of how a precognitive dream can be merely coincidental or mundane deja-vu. I hear a lot of people say something like "I dreamed of this exact moment! Sipping coffee, watching this program, and then you walked in and said what you said!" Which is so mundane, it can literally happen every damn day. You can even also argue if you wanted, that a person who dreams a car accident and gets into one the next day is still experiencing a coincidence - on the account that people dream of car accidents and never get into one so its just must be a correlation that their mind is drawing. BUT That kind of argument is actually insane. The problem with the coincidence argument is its unwilling to consider the reality of significant dreams and significant events. What I mean by significant I mean the event has never happened before - in either the dream or waking life. So lets say an individual dreams of a car accident. This is the first time they have ever had a dream like this. Within the week they get into a car accident. This is the first time they have ever been into a car accident. I dont think anyone who actually experiences this can call it a coincidence. It think its extremely logical to say that the dream and event are related, from both the significance of the events and the close proximity of timing. The deal is that no one has ever demonstrated precognition skills in any controlled situation. I dont know anyone who claims that they can induce a precognitive dream. So how can science study it under a controlled situation? If it can't study it don't you think you're jumping to conclusions prematurely? Now picture the amount of information we receive during the course of our lives and the experiences we go through. Once your start to see the big picture, you will realize that these coincidences are far more likely than you'd think, and it would be extremely weird if these odd events didn't occur in the thousands every day across the globe. I understand that people can draw the wrong conclusions - a coincidence. But calling an entire PHENOMENON a mere coincidence is simply unwilling to acknowledge it and actually view it in any real scientific sense. It's a scientific cop-out. Its like saying God-Did-It. We'll never understand the real truth of anything if we don't make any effort because we falsely assume it doesn't exist. You're right- our brains filter through a massive amount of information daily. Our puny conscious mind is aware of less than 1% of it. The majority is processed by the subconscious mind. The "big picture" is that our brains are capable of projecting potential future events based on that information, a process thats completely subconscious. It then communicates its prediction to the conscious mind via dreams and intuition-in both of these the process of the right brain is important. It can be a Hit or Miss, but the point is our complex brains really do process and relate information like this. The big question for me is, can the brain receive information we aren't yet aware about? Is it possible for our subconscious minds to receive information from say - other people? Its a real scientific question meant to answer psychic phenomenon. Which we wouldn't bother asking if we just say "nah coincidence, nothing to see here"

[juroara]

And to add my personal experience to it, I've never had a precognitive dream about me. Instead, they were about other people, specifically girl drama! Back in high school I had series of weird dreams, I kept dreaming my friend was fighting with her boyfriend. It was summer time, I was shy, I never called her up or saw her that summer. These boyfriend-fight dreams were so frequent I was bored of them. Plus I was annoyed that I was like a ghost in these dreams. I could never say or do anything about the fights. So instead I ignored the message and used the frequency of the dreams as lucid triggers. Eventually I dreamed the big one, you know, the break up. Big epic emotional fight. He's pissed, she's pissed. Its over, the end! After that I didn't dream about their relationship anymore. I didn't consider that any of these dreams related to reality. The summer break was over and I saw my friend again in class. It turns out everything I dreamed about was true. The entire summer my friend was constantly bickering with her boyfriend, until finally they broke up towards the end of it. I felt horrible! I should have called her up and asked her how she was doing, but I was too shy. I can't say that it was a precognitive dream, because I don't know the exact timing. It felt more like I was dreaming of it as it happened - so more like a psychic dream then a precog dream. Years later, it happened again. This time I dreamed a co-worker of mine had a horrible fight with her boyfriend and they broke up on the spot. It was just like last time. I was a ghost who couldn't say or do anything about the situation. When I woke up I was really worried for her! But when I got to work I was too scared to tell her my dream! Plus she seemed perfectly happy with her boyfriend so I didn't want to jinx her. I figured it was just one of those weird dreams and I just put it out of my mind. Within three days time, she gets into a horrible fight with her boyfriend and they break up on the spot. After the break up I admit to her that I dreamed about it only days prior. At that point she gets upset and was like "well you should have told me!" lol, ooops. Actually, I take that back. I did have a precog dream about myself. I dreamed a cop pulled me over. The next morning, a cop pulls me over. Damn. If I had listened to that dream, I would have driven down the other street!!

[YAD]

Some great posts. Precognition is real and it's certainly worthy of further scientific exploration. I am working on an abstract to better define the phenomena. In the meantime here is a link to an article that I wrote which uses pictures to better describe. Precognitive Dreams Explained aka Déjà Rêvé » YouAreDreaming.org

[shadowofwind]

YAD, Here are a couple of comments after looking at your article. These aren't to disagree with anything you said, just some additional thoughts that might be relevant. For me, deja vu seems to be a recognition of the present moment from a standpoint that is recognizably 'outside of' the present moment. I think that for me there's no difference between this and a dream premonition, except for the moment that the awareness contacts my physical experience. (If we had a vocabulary that was even half adequate for describing these things, that would go a long way towards understanding them I think.) A person can also have the same kind of experience in relation to a 'past' event. In the latter case you could say to yourself that its just a memory, but actually the experience is the same, the transcendent element is the same. Good luck convincing a skeptic of any of this of course. My precognitive dreams are often in first person, from a standpoint other than my physical self. In these dreams I can seem to have an active role in causing the event. I don't think it follows that I'm actually causing a future event though. Something else is causing it, and I'm involuntarily empathizing with that something else. Or to say this another way, providence or my higher self wants to show me that there is a causal relationship between two things, and illustrates this by causing me to experience that link, but even though its in first person I'm still mostly a witness. Even in waking life, when a person imagines "I am doing this", a huge part of that real-time agency is imagined, the decision having already been made subconsciously. (As has been confirmed by brain scans.) I don't think that the choice itself is necessarily illusory, but the experience of it has been transferred from where it really happens to a sort of executive summary or simulation of what happened. My point isn't to suggest that you do or do not affect future events by acting lucidly in a dream. I don't know that because I'm not you and haven't had your experiences. I'm just saying that for myself, the experience of causing something in a precognitive lucid dream seems not to imply that I'm really doing that. Sometimes things happen that I don't think I can plausibly be responsible for, irrespective of what first-person role I was playing in the dream experience. I'm not that powerful, karmically I can't be determining the fates of other people on a momentary whim like that. Perhaps I should start another thread for this, but I think it might be worth revisiting whether convincing respectable 'society' of the reality of precognition would even be a good thing. What is science? Its when you control something, or something you can rigorously observe behaves in a well controlled manner, and by doing that you come up with some kind of model or description of how it behaves. Do the spirits want to be nailed down in that manner? A lot of what we've been talking about amounts to a form telepathy. If you didn't have telepathy, and wanted to come up with a mechanically and electromagnetically based substitute, that would be the internet. Its great! In a moment you can go out and get information about practically anything, and communicate with practically anyone. So what have we done with that? In just 20 years we've turned it into something Orwellian, where powerful corporations buy and sell information about you that you don't even have access to yourself, and where powerful government agencies keep track of everyone's activities. The ugly, genocidal side of this hasn't taken clear form yet, but as sure as cats chase mice its coming, in one form or another. Do we need the same kind of control freaks more involved in psychism also? Perhaps we must try to understand psychism, because its a part of who we are. But is it a bad thing that we can't convince the kinds of people who believe only what is scientifically accepted? To a large extent peer review and all of that is about control. Do we want their control? Part of the point of 'proving' things to a scientific community is to protect ourselves from superstition, and from religious people who would use superstition to control other people. But I wonder how much this is like looking to the NSA to protect us from terrorists. Maybe if we were wiser we wouldn't try so hard. Maybe this is a big part of of why publicly proving this sort of thing is so elusive, even though we know its real. The 'paranormal' part of my mind acts with a high degree of independence. If it wanted to be known outwardly by others, it would make itself known, it can do that any time it wants, if other people are open to it also. The fact that it hasn't happened yet seems to me to be evidence that its not wanted by other people, or that providence knows better. Maybe we should heed that. I'm not saying that I think we shouldn't push to understand this stuff. I don't know. I expressed this same thought two years ago, and yet I've still been keeping at trying to understand this stuff. But when we encounter resistance, maybe we should try to understand that too, lest we push to hard and hurt ourselves with it.

[YAD]

Thanks for the extensive and thoughtful reply Shadowofmind. YAD, Here are a couple of comments after looking at your article. These aren't to disagree with anything you said, just some additional thoughts that might be relevant. For me, deja vu seems to be a recognition of the present moment from a standpoint that is recognizably 'outside of' the present moment. I think that for me there's no difference between this and a dream premonition, except for the moment that the awareness contacts my physical experience. (If we had a vocabulary that was even half adequate for describing these things, that would go a long way towards understanding them I think.) A person can also have the same kind of experience in relation to a 'past' event. In the latter case you could say to yourself that its just a memory, but actually the experience is the same, the transcendent element is the same. Good luck convincing a skeptic of any of this of course. Skeptisism is in itself a belief-system, and depending on the skeptic they often come from a well defined ideology of skeptisism thus cite from known websites which are all fundamentally argument driven beliefs that skeptics maintain to hold their position that what they belief, or the belief is skeptisism is the correct one. Fortunantly, they are wrong with regards to dreams that come true amonst other things (out-of-body experiences, near death experiences, reincarnation etc). Which is actually good news, that we survive death. But people wanna skeptic. My precognitive dreams are often in first person, from a standpoint other than my physical self. In these dreams I can seem to have an active role in causing the event. I don't think it follows that I'm actually causing a future event though. Something else is causing it, and I'm involuntarily empathizing with that something else. Or to say this another way, providence or my higher self wants to show me that there is a causal relationship between two things, and illustrates this by causing me to experience that link, but even though its in first person I'm still mostly a witness. Even in waking life, when a person imagines "I am doing this", a huge part of that real-time agency is imagined, the decision having already been made subconsciously. (As has been confirmed by brain scans.) I don't think that the choice itself is necessarily illusory, but the experience of it has been transferred from where it really happens to a sort of executive summary or simulation of what happened. The first-person is generally how most experience it. I've observed causality in precognitive dreams by changing them, it is something to concider. In other precognitive dreams I've been shown how we manufacture and create this reality, and that this reality is a subject of the dreamworld, thus in itself a scaled up Universal dream. My point isn't to suggest that you do or do not affect future events by acting lucidly in a dream. I don't know that because I'm not you and haven't had your experiences. I'm just saying that for myself, the experience of causing something in a precognitive lucid dream seems not to imply that I'm really doing that. Sometimes things happen that I don't think I can plausibly be responsible for, irrespective of what first-person role I was playing in the dream experience. I'm not that powerful, karmically I can't be determining the fates of other people on a momentary whim like that. The active lucid precognitive dreams that I had, I went over and above the usual going with the flow. I will admit that, however in taking direct action it changed the dream largely in a phenomenological way. When the dream came true as it was precognitive the changes also actualized in a phenomenological way. For the most part, this was a learning experience and revealed in stone the relationship between dreams and reality from my point-of-view anyways. Perhaps I should start another thread for this, but I think it might be worth revisiting whether convincing respectable 'society' of the reality of precognition would even be a good thing. What is science? Its when you control something, or something you can rigorously observe behaves in a well controlled manner, and by doing that you come up with some kind of model or description of how it behaves. Do the spirits want to be nailed down in that manner? I'm working on a new abstract once finalized I will link it here, I do believe this is an issue for science should it ever get past the skeptisism and understand the fact that this is quite genuine and real. I cannot convince others however but that doesn't stop other like minded thinkers to raise conjecture on the topic, all good in my opinion at this stage in human history. A lot of what we've been talking about amounts to a form telepathy. If you didn't have telepathy, and wanted to come up with a mechanically and electromagnetically based substitute, that would be the internet. Its great! In a moment you can go out and get information about practically anything, and communicate with practically anyone. So what have we done with that? In just 20 years we've turned it into something Orwellian, where powerful corporations buy and sell information about you that you don't even have access to yourself, and where powerful government agencies keep track of everyone's activities. The ugly, genocidal side of this hasn't taken clear form yet, but as sure as cats chase mice its coming, in one form or another. Do we need the same kind of control freaks more involved in psychism also? They already know and already do involve themselves. Look at Hitler and the occult, China's super-psychics, Russia's psychic research and the US. What they excell at is covering it up and creating dis-information and propaganda against the existence of psychic phenomena. This is why I view most skeptisism as a branch of the dis-information campaign. Perhaps we must try to understand psychism, because its a part of who we are. But is it a bad thing that we can't convince the kinds of people who believe only what is scientifically accepted? To a large extent peer review and all of that is about control. Do we want their control? Part of the point of 'proving' things to a scientific community is to protect ourselves from superstition, and from religious people who would use superstition to control other people. But I wonder how much this is like looking to the NSA to protect us from terrorists. Maybe if we were wiser we wouldn't try so hard. Maybe this is a big part of of why publicly proving this sort of thing is so elusive, even though we know its real. The 'paranormal' part of my mind acts with a high degree of independence. If it wanted to be known outwardly by others, it would make itself known, it can do that any time it wants, if other people are open to it also. The fact that it hasn't happened yet seems to me to be evidence that its not wanted by other people, or that providence knows better. Maybe we should heed that. I'm not saying that I think we shouldn't push to understand this stuff. I don't know. I expressed this same thought two years ago, and yet I've still been keeping at trying to understand this stuff. But when we encounter resistance, maybe we should try to understand that too, lest we push to hard and hurt ourselves with it. Because it's privately known in the upper echeleons of government and hidden from view to the general public, I feel even more strongly that we need to push at a grassroots level knowledge of the expeirnece as we are not alone, many poeple have it and for them, they deserve to have quality information on the topic. That's my opinion anyways. Thanks Ian

[shadowofwind]

Minor note....I don't think people in government know even half as much about psychism as we do. Extrapolating from my experience with NASA, AFRL, NASIC, and DARPA, its hard to overstate the sheer stupidity and ineffectiveness of federal intelligence collecting and research programs. Some government people practice something like Law of Attraction, but its more of an instinctive or karmic reflex than something they have special knowledge of. Theirs is an outward, political, secular power. If we have knowledgable enemies in positiins of power, its cult leaders along the lines of Osho. Yeah I know there's stuff about secret government programs on late night radio and elsewhere, but those people are always selling something, and real secret programs are not like what they suggest. Yes I know I've said this before about government contact with aliens, without convincing anyone, so I'll be quiet now. I agree that understanding ourselves is empowering.

[DarkFlatTop]

I used to dream of the future often in my child hood - early teen years. When i had these dreams, upon remembering them in the morning, i always knew that they were precognitive. There was a certain feeling they gave me which let me know. Some times they would take weeks to play out in the waking world. One notable experience was when i dreamed of missing the 3pm ferry from another island that me and my parents where shopping at for the day. This was notable because i realized that this was the day that i had dreamed of (even though it was the morning, and i only remembered dreaming of the afternoon events). At the time i told my parents that we were going to miss the boat, (i didnt mention that i had dreamed of it), and tried my best to get them to hurry. In the end they did not take me seriously, and we did indeed miss the boat. There was also one time when i had a precognitive event while awake. I was in the class room, spontaneously imagining a bright white light and something angelic (can't exactly remember being years later), when suddenly this vision of a test history test paper blocked out the previous images, I tried to focus to read and memorize the answers but it was hard work. The next week after that, we did get a history test (i knew it was coming up at the time of the vision) and even though i had forgotten the answers; the paper, form of questions and shape of the text on the page was exactly the same as the vision. I cant remember having any precognitive dreams since my early teens, back when i was more aware of my dreams and more imaginative in general. The last precognitive dream i can recall (surprisingly from years ago) was of the beginning of the end of the world. As it has yet to happen -obviously- ill tell you guys that it will happen at a time of great celebration for the human race. When it happens - if it happens in our lifetime - you can think back to that guy on dreamviews who gave a really ambiguous prediction that was no help at all. Funny thing is i will know its a dream of the future, but its always a what, never a when. ------------- Also how can people say they disbelieve something like this because there is no proof. Is our word not proof enough?

[FraZZleD]

Until they experience it for themselves they will never believe. Those that have experienced it will believe. I am a believer.....

[limerence18]

This is a copy of a post I made on another thread: It is relevant here to, here you go: I have had this happen a couple of times. I have even documented the results on my facebook. Check these face book status's out. I will continue doing more research on this and I will update in the future on Dreamviews if I can. I will also upload progress on my Face Book posts which will be open to the public. 1. https://www.facebook.com/717hacker?v...55461831164346 2. https://www.facebook.com/717hacker?v...61476787229517 The first link details writing I saw in a dream on May 21st, 2013. The event described in that dream writing actually occured one day later on May 22nd. The incident was all over news headlines. The second link details a news headline i had seen during the end of my dream on June 3rd, 2013. I posted the status of the dream on June 4th. I then saw the news headlines 3 days later in reference to the Fl. incident. There have been many other instances but those were left unrecorded, I will post more of the results of my experiments in the future. - 7:17 - Bonus: Also, for any other evidence of precognition in general, look at the highlights/jighlighted posts on his facebook for all of 2013. Namaste

[YAD]

As promised here is the paper I wrote on Precognitive Dreams, hopefully this will be of some benifit for those of you interested in this genuine experience. The Theory of Precognitive Dreams | A World of Precognitive Dreams - YouAreDreaming.org

[user5659]

Also check my post on it http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ve-dreams.html