Laws of the Dream Plane, Dream Battle Theory

**Baron Samedi** · 01-10-2011 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad
I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything. I state my ideas and opinions, and if people are interested, we discuss, if not, we don't.

GMoney
Why not??
Because it's impossible to convince someone. They have to experience it for themselves.
If what you're saying is true, it's incredibly radical and a major breakthrough in modern science. If you don't want to become famous/rich for discovering something potentially useful and universal, I'm not sure what to say.
I am not interested in riches and fame.

If you really can share dreams, why don't you do it with the people who don't believe you?
I have. They don't remember.

Why would you rather argue over theories than actually go into their dreams and prove them wrong?
see above.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad
One dreamer going into another's dream to make them lucid, to make them remember their dreams, or to convince them of shared dreaming doesn't work very well.

GMoney
Why is that?
I don't know. I have tried many times. It's nearly impossible for Raven to make me lucid when I don't want to be. Apparently Dream Recall and Lucidity are two skills people must do for themselves.

There's absolutely no reason why that should be the case. So you're trying to tell me that if you try to have a shared dream you can't, but if you don't try it will happen naturally?
No. I am saying under optimal conditions, both dreamers have some degree of mastery of the two most important dream skills.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why can Raven remember your shared dreams but Walms/Hukif can't?

I don't know. Walms and I remember each other, but not too well. I don't know who Hukif is. Raven and I shared dreams as kids, so that's one reason why it's easy for us.

If shared dreaming is real it has to be universal. You can't share dreams with some people but not others - it's everyone or no one.
Correct.

You consistently decline challenges to prove your point and avoid actually providing evidence for what you're claiming. If you were arguing something impossible or invisible, I would understand why. But you're advocating a viewpoint that can be easily proven!!

No, it can't easily be proven. You are suggesting I enter the dreams of skeptics to convince them shared dreaming is real. Raven and I tried that. I am not going to do it again. It's a waste of energy. 1) They may not remember the dream. 2) They may not recognize me. 3) I may not remember the dream. The only way to prove scientifically that shared dreaming is real, is for two shared dreamers to go into a sleep lab where they are isolated from each other. Then, they can be given a place to meet up in dreams by a third party, and write their dreams down the next morning.

However, there are only about six sleep labs on the continent of North America. I actually have tried to contact Stephen Laberge, and various sleep and dream scientists. They are all either flaky, or don't return my calls or emails. Mainstream Western science is uninterested in shared dreaming.

Why are you hiding and evading any rational explanations?
Rational explanation for what? Shared dreaming? Here's the explanation. The Dream Plane is another plane of existence, greater than the meeting of minds. Our dream bodies go there when we dream.

If you're not going to back up your statements when you (supposedly) have the ability to, you need to stop trying to get others to believe what you're saying.

I am not trying to get others to believe what I am saying. People can believe whatever they want.

Provide evidence or stop talking about it.
No.

**Baron Samedi** · 01-10-2011 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by guitardreamer

Hey, I had a dream once, after my kitten died, that she visited me and told me that she was always with me. Was it really her, or just a thing in my mind? It was in such detail. I remember it all. (It's in my Dream Journal) What do you think?

I saw Raven Knight holding a black cat in our dream. Then, it leapt from her arms and transformed into a winged black panther. Later, she told me she has a black cat named Shadow.

When I became a false god, a strange Druid appeared saying he was the best friend of my Higher Self. When I merged with my Higher Self, he followed my Higher Self to me. His name is Samuel, but I call him Sarnox. I then realized that he was my dog, Sam, the only dog I ever had.

So... yes, I think that was your cat. Cats sleep a lot because they like to dream.

**GMoney** · 01-10-2011 10:47 PM

Wow. Nomad just won the game.

**zebrah** · 01-11-2011 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by GMoney

Wow. Nomad just won the game.

Reported.

Please be civil. There is no need to insult people because of thier beliefs.

**saltyseedog** · 01-11-2011 02:08 AM

damn can't take a joke

**mikeac** · 01-11-2011 02:18 AM

Hukif is Walm's new username.

**GMoney** · 01-11-2011 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Zebrah

Reported.

Please be civil. There is no need to insult people because of thier beliefs.

How is that not civil? I was congratulating him for countering every one of my criticisms with a relatively rational response. We have different perspectives and I don't believe a lot of what Nomad's saying, but he's consistent and he's doing a lot of things right. I appreciate his response to my criticisms and am somewhat speechless, as I have no proper response. I don't have any solid pieces of evidence to counter what he said, so in essence he won the argument. I was alluding to this by using a common phrase/meme.

If you would prefer, I could change the post to something with the exact same meaning: Congratulations Nomad, those are solid points and I hadn't considered those before. I don't have anything to disprove what you just said so I'm going to hve to take some time to think about it before launching any more criticisms. You win this round.

**Baron Samedi** · 01-11-2011 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by GMoney

How is that not civil? I was congratulating him for countering every one of my criticisms with a relatively rational response. We have different perspectives and I don't believe a lot of what Nomad's saying, but he's consistent and he's doing a lot of things right. I appreciate his response to my criticisms and am somewhat speechless, as I have no proper response. I don't have any solid pieces of evidence to counter what he said, so in essence he won the argument. I was alluding to this by using a common phrase/meme.

If you would prefer, I could change the post to something with the exact same meaning: Congratulations Nomad, those are solid points and I hadn't considered those before. I don't have anything to disprove what you just said so I'm going to hve to take some time to think about it before launching any more criticisms. You win this round.

I am twisting my giant handlebar mustache in evil triumph.

**Captain Frapo** · 01-11-2011 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I am twisting my giant handlebar mustache in evil triumph.

Reported.

**Stryke** · 01-11-2011 07:38 PM

I hope the guys saying "Reported" are just joking. I havent read a single post on this thread that is worth being reported

**GMoney** · 01-11-2011 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stryke

I hope the guys saying "Reported" are just joking. I havent read a single post on this thread that is worth being reported

Zebrah actually did report me...

**juroara** · 01-11-2011 10:26 PM

You know what would fix this? We should all dream share and then shake hands

**Hukif** · 01-11-2011 10:31 PM

Nah, I think all replies to this thread that are less than 2 lines long should be reported. That and people bite in dreams.

**zebrah** · 01-11-2011 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by juroara

You know what would fix this? We should all dream share and then shake hands

Sounds like a plan.

And to the user formerly know as Walms yes they probably should be.

Gmoney I'm sorry I reported you I miss read what you typed. Since you had been saying we all just made up dreams and what not I thought you were referring to that as "the game".

**GMoney** · 01-11-2011 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Zebrah

Gmoney I'm sorry I reported you I miss read what you typed. Since you had been saying we all just made up dreams and what not I thought you were referring to that as "the game".

Thanks, Zebrah. Now let's put this silly feud behind us and be friends, or at least treat each other with respect.

*extends hand for a shake*

**zebrah** · 01-11-2011 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by GMoney

Thanks, Zebrah. Now let's put this silly feud behind us and be friends, or at least treat each other with respect.

*extends hand for a shake*

*Shakes hand*

Now back on topic. Has anyone checked out more of the stuff Nomad wrote about? I really want to become lucid again and test some of these laws that I haven't yet experienced.

**saltyseedog** · 01-12-2011 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by juroara

You know what would fix this? We should all dream share and then shake hands

I'm so down. We should do something cooler than shake hands though... like we could all meet on a plane then have a group hug sky diving

**Captain Frapo** · 01-12-2011 01:14 AM

I didn't really report anybody I was just joking. But I reported myself for not taking things seriously.

**Moto** · 01-12-2011 10:20 PM

I have personally proved shared dreaming...to myself. Firstly- you have to abandon your belief system on the subject and accept that you don't know everything about the universe. Once done, then begin the trials, and find a person interested, and keep on trying. Share dream journals. My friend Jeff, whenever he's pissed off cause I don't call him, Astral Projects, and jumps into my dreams. He then tells me about it afterwards lol. If you don't believe, then you prolly won't remember the dreams where you do share a dream, cause your ego will be protecting your minds integrity. You have to be open. With that said-NEXT

Battling with pure energy. I had a semi-lucid where this Inter-dimensional Entity was blocking my creation of a door to the Akashkic Records. I got REALLY PISSED OFFED. I could actually sense his energetic interference, and the way he was removing the energy thread of my energy creating the door. I rounded on him, and he said,"OK, dreams up", and then blasted pure energy at me. Nomad, the closest thing I can say is that you feel it more than see it, and the only thing you see is a clear energy wave. Once you work with pure energy, you focus on manipulating dimensions with it and even consider energy as a dimension, rather than doing archetypes, and thus can do anything. In any case, I reflected the pulse back to him, which made me realize he wasn't a DC( DC woulda been vaporized), and he had a shocked look on his face. He then ran out of the store. In any case, this was spontaneous energy control, coming from my initial energy awareness. So it seems to control pure energy, you have to be aware of the energy underlying the archetype, and how it functions. I do a lot of energy sensing IWL, which is most likely why I could do this type of dream control. I'll have to test it out again when I become lucid again.

Back to Shared Dreaming. It works, I'm focusing on recalling dreams instead, and lucidity, because otherwise, Ill share them and only remember a few. I wish to remember all of my dreams.

**Hukif** · 01-12-2011 10:25 PM

I have to disagree, not believing in shared dreaming has nothing to do with the experience, my first and confirmed ones were back when I didn't believe in it, and was an atheist

**Moto** · 01-12-2011 11:05 PM

I don't see how what an atheist has to do anything with it. But very interesting...Perhaps you didn't have the subconscious construction of your perceptions that comes with disbelief as others do, or were open to more to the idea than others are. Then again, I'm still learning on the subject, so thank you for enlightening me. Perhaps I will go to Akashkic and find out...all though my dream guides don't like me going there cause I always learn a bit more than I should...lol.

**Hukif** · 01-13-2011 12:01 AM

Well, it has to do because at the time I didn't believe in anything "supernatural", was to make the point stronger only.

**AL3ZAY** · 05-21-2011 10:15 AM

Reading this thread about battle has brought a question to my mind:

2 days ago when I was in my usual lucid dreaming session, I had just started my first lucid dream of the session, stabilized it, and as I was walking through this maze-ish (not really a maze that had to be conquered, just shrubs placed in an arrangement that made it appear to be a maze) area of shrubs towards the back of a building, and out of the bushes behind me about 30 yards away, this humanoid figure covered in soot and ash and shadow and other combinations of things pitch black, with a crazy look in his eyes started running towards me, arms flailing. He appeared to be rabid, if that's even the right term. I looked at him casually and said "Be gone" completely expecting him to disappear so I could be on my way. Nothing happened. This made me angry. I shouted this time "BE GONE!" and still, nothing happened. This in turn made me focus incredibly, but he was already within attacking range. I punched him in the forehead with full force (dunno why I punched him, I could have obliterated him in many other ways, but my instinct was a forceful shot to the forehead) and he fell backwards onto the ground with a very stunned look on his face and disintegrated into black dust that then disappeared. I stood there a little puzzled for a second at how my clear-cut intent for him to go away was not met, and that I had to actually strike him down in order to get rid of him. Any idea what kind of entity tried to attack me?

**saltyseedog** · 05-29-2011 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

Reading this thread about battle has brought a question to my mind:

2 days ago when I was in my usual lucid dreaming session, I had just started my first lucid dream of the session, stabilized it, and as I was walking through this maze-ish (not really a maze that had to be conquered, just shrubs placed in an arrangement that made it appear to be a maze) area of shrubs towards the back of a building, and out of the bushes behind me about 30 yards away, this humanoid figure covered in soot and ash and shadow and other combinations of things pitch black, with a crazy look in his eyes started running towards me, arms flailing. He appeared to be rabid, if that's even the right term. I looked at him casually and said "Be gone" completely expecting him to disappear so I could be on my way. Nothing happened. This made me angry. I shouted this time "BE GONE!" and still, nothing happened. This in turn made me focus incredibly, but he was already within attacking range. I punched him in the forehead with full force (dunno why I punched him, I could have obliterated him in many other ways, but my instinct was a forceful shot to the forehead) and he fell backwards onto the ground with a very stunned look on his face and disintegrated into black dust that then disappeared. I stood there a little puzzled for a second at how my clear-cut intent for him to go away was not met, and that I had to actually strike him down in order to get rid of him. Any idea what kind of entity tried to attack me?

Holy shit. this was probably a demon, or shadow. they steal peoples energy and stuff. I fight them all the fucking time. they attack me in dreams. I rip them to pieces and send them through portals. they sometimes will put some of their energy in my energy body and control me. I have to force it out with my power. They fuck up my energy body. ripping it into pieces.