Thread: My System, For Anyone Interested in Advising Newbie

I left an introduction post citing my reasons for wanting to become involved in lucid dreaming, but that doesn't matter for my purposes here. I just thought maybe there are some experienced individuals looking to offer some perspective.

I've just been at this for about a week. I keep a daily DJ, which has a detailed entry for at least six or seven dreams. In conjunction with the DJ technique, I've also started keeping a dream map, and using the "tag book" method I learned on this site for just noting important points of dreams from which you can recall the rest. Also regarding recall, I've stopped smoking weed and I drink lots of water before bed and every time I get up to try to encourage awakening through the night and remembering more dreams. So far my recall has been slowly improving, no huge concerns here but any advice is always appreciated.

As far as my reality checks and all day awareness go, this is what I've been doing. I try to foster an awareness of my environment all day, but of course I'm just starting so it more or less coincides with my reality checks. What I do is I try to notice details about the environment I hadn't noticed before, I check my clothes, I review all of my senses, I think about how I got where I am sometimes, and I generally try to experience the moment very vividly. Usually then I try to determine if I'm dreaming. I imagine inconsistencies in my environment, and tell myself, the next time I'm dreaming I will realize I'm dreaming. It's at this point usually that I look at my watch three times or check text.

The method of induction I've been trying is MILD. I know that it works almost exclusively in the early morning, and I try to use it upon my awakenings. I do pretty much just as Laberge described in his book, Lucid Dreaming right down to using his mantra.

So that's pretty much all of the info on what I've done so far and continue to do. I thought I would post it as completely as possible so anybody feeling generous can help. As far as specific questions go, I just have a couple. One, I have thought about checking my hands as part of my RC/Awareness routine, because Robert Waggoner seems to strongly support the hand technique. Is this wise? How best can I incorporate it into my day? Should I just do it before sleep, instead, as he says he did? Secondly, My sleep pattern keeps getting bumped back because of my attempts at MILD. Does anyone have any advice for getting your sleep back on schedule and still fitting in an induction attempt or two?

Thanks for your time.

Edit: One more thing-- I am interested in learning more about Dream Exit inductions, but am having trouble finding a good rundown, sorry if it's in plain sight.

1. I have used the looking at hand RC with great success for my first few LDs. I have practiced it during day, anytime I remembered to do it.

This is just one of the techniques you may use (for DILD):

Ask yourself a question "Wow, am I dreaming?" that jolts your attention and makes you stop doing whatever you doing. For a moment, entertain the idea, that you are sure this is a dream or false awakening and feel the excitement in the pit of your stomach. Just pretend, that you have had a lucid dream before that was indistinguishable from waking reality, so this moment could also be a dream and you don't know for sure until you RC. Really consider the answer. Don't just automatically answer "Of course I'm not".

Look around and notice details. Look at your hands and count your fingers. Do you have the right amount? Do they look normal? Do a reality check. Try to gently push your thumb through your palm and expect it to go through. Is it going through? Pinch your nose and expect to be able to breathe. Can you? Can you levitate? If not, tell yourself "Next time I'm dreaming, I look at my hands and realize I'm dreaming". Repeat this mantra a few times while looking at your hands.
Pretty soon, this behavior will start manifesting itself in your dreams and you'll be asking yourself if you dreaming, while in regular dream. That will make you lucid. You will do a couple of RCs to make sure.
collection of techniques for DILD

2. For MILD, it doesn't need to disrupt your sleep. Say your mantras plus some RC when going to bed and then repeat your mantras as you falling alseep. When you get up at night for a restroom, repeat your mantra again as falling asleep. That's all.

It's best to put MILD together with practice for DILD. That means adding awareness to your mantras and RCs.

DJ is great. It will help you with recall. Also think about your dreams during day, appreciate them, be excited when you recall something.

Don't forget to be excited and to have intent to have LDs.

I would say, that everything you do will get you lucid dream in no time. Keep at it. I'm sure I left something out, so please ask. Happy dreams

Here is a link to DV Wiki, where you can find guides for DEILD.
Dutchraptor's DEILD guide

Thanks! That's a great clarification of reality checking, I will re-read it for a few days along with some of my other sources. I guess my main problem with my sleep schedule is that I sleep in later as a result of trying to MILD, and I stay up later as a result, which bumps me up about an hour a day. I suppose one day I will have to get up early, and try WBTB or an afternoon nap MILD? Any thoughts?

You don't need WBTB for a MILD. But it sure can help.

If you have one day, when you can do morning WBTB, this one should work great:

1. wake up 90 min before your normal waking time
2. stay up for 90 min
3. do 10 min of mantras and RCs
4. take a 90 min nap

I do this almost every day, except I don't have a set time when I wake up, I stay up for 1-2 hours and than take a nap on a sofa.

I have heard about afternoon nap. Just don't make it too long after you wake up. I would say 5 hrs max. But it may work later also, but I can't wouch for it.

Originally Posted by gab

1. wake up 90 min before your normal waking time
2. stay up for 90 min
3. do 10 min of mantras and RCs
4. take a 90 min nap

I do this almost every day,

You are extremely fortunate. If I did that I would never get back to sleep. Not in a million years.

Thanks again. Damn I love this website.

Oh, and there's another element to my RCing that I've been trying out that I described in a thread called "Dream Geometry," here it is again:
Original post in entirety, since I haven't had an account long enough to post links!
"Dream Geometry


Full disclosure, I am an LD newb. Like I'm as green as you can be, just started practicing techniques last week, although I do them daily and commitedly. I have an interest in philosophy, and to get into the real juicy stuff, real logic and analytical stuff, you need to understand math and the logic of math better than I do. I only took the amount of math necessary to graduate from high school.

So lately I've been teaching myself some math, and I've begun to apply very, very basic principles of mathematical observation to my ADA and RC-- for example try to recognize angles to as close a degree as possible, if you see a spinning sign count how many seconds it takes to revolve, things of that nature. I was in a dollar store with a very regimented grid of fluorescent lights, at first I noticed the visual effect of changing my perspective and then I counted the lights in a quarter of the store and multiplied it to decide how many must have been hanging from the ceiling.

Anyway, like I said I'm a newb, but it's my understanding that the part of your brain you want to turn back on during REM is the one concerning logic and critical thinking. Am I on to something?"

I suppose anyone with any thoughts on that would want to mention it in the original post. You could find it under General Lucid Discussion

Originally Posted by StephenDedalus

"Dream Geometry

So lately I've been teaching myself some math, and I've begun to apply very, very basic principles of mathematical observation to my ADA and RC-- for example try to recognize angles to as close a degree as possible, if you see a spinning sign count how many seconds it takes to revolve, things of that nature. I was in a dollar store with a very regimented grid of fluorescent lights, at first I noticed the visual effect of changing my perspective and then I counted the lights in a quarter of the store and multiplied it to decide how many must have been hanging from the ceiling.

I think everytime you pay attention to your surroundings you practice daytime awareness. So noticing angles, changes of perspective works also. ADA can be a little boring, so if this makes it more fun for you, that's great. You will most likely practice awareness more often, when it's not mundane.

Originally Posted by Bobblehat

You are extremely fortunate. If I did that I would never get back to sleep. Not in a million years.

I put the TV on and watch untill sleepy. Usually watch something boring, monotone. I was always able to sleep best with tv on. Just a gift I have.

I tried the WBTB method, was very effective. Although I didn't have an LD, I know I'm clearly getting close. My recall is improving, although I didn't remember the dream I woke from, just the one I went back to bed to.

The first day or two that I tried to remember my dreams, I recorded in my DJ that a dream character actually approached me and told me I'd never be able to do it! I took that as an encouraging sign because it actually means that my mind is focused on remembering my dreams, I had a hypnotist friend once who said the unconscious doesn't understand negatives. It was sort of like a dream elephant walked up to me and said "I'm not an elephant," the character was in fact telling me that I was remembering my dreams.

I had a similar experience tonight-- I was in a semi-nightmare where I and a few other survivors of a zombie apocalypse were frantically gathering up food as quick as we could from an abandoned grocery store. For some reason it was important for me to find a specific type of frozen corn, and I sort of started to panic. Another dream character actually said "You need __? That doesn't make any sense... I don't buy that for a second." I believe that this is a sign that I'm becoming critical in my dreams? Sadly I didn't heed his words, I was in too much of a hurry to stop and think. Another thing is that I feel like I changed minute parts of the dream almost consciously, without becoming lucid. When there was no escape from a second story window I hoped to "find" a grappling hook among my possessions, and when I did I used it to help my team to safety.

What I actually spent my WBTB doing: I had some more water and turned the A/C on so as not to disrupt my dream recall with excessive heat. I meditated for 5 minutes in half lotus (I'm a beginner) to bring my mind to a wakeful state, as Stephen Laberge suggests in Lucid Dreaming. I then spent roughly 45 minutes reading Waggoner's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, and I practiced RC throughout. When it came time to sleep I used MILD for roughly ten minutes of mantra/dream visualization cycles.

Everything you say certainly sounds like you are getting more aware in your dreams. I have had it happen twice in a regular dream, when I was able to think and act as if I was aware. Both time, later on in this dream, I became lucid. So I would say that's a good sign.

When I do WBTB, I don't drink water, so call of nature doesn't wake me up at inappropriate time, like from LD. And you need to experiment with how long you stay up. It can be different every time. If you having hard time falling asleep, stay up shorter and vice versa.

Mantra is good to do during day, as falling asleep, but they are most powerfull, when those are the last thoughts you have before actually falling asleep.

Keep doing expecially your awareness training, keep excited when doing RCs and get ready for some most awesome experience of your life. It's coming.

OMG I just realized now that it probably could have been a lucid dream if I didn't get up to go to the bathroom! I remember not even being able to finish my DJ entry. How disappointing! Oh well, live and learn! This thread has been exactly what I was looking for. I'm actually incredibly excited, maybe I did it! I'm so glad that I signed up for this forum and I would encourage anybody else new to LDing to do the same and/or go over the advice in this thread a few times.

I'll let you know when I have a real success, I'm going to try WBTB again tomorrow!

Oom mani padme huuum

I take my dream recall really seriously, but whenever I heard that you can actually forget a LD I thought, "get out of here, how??" Well this morning I had (what I believe to be) my first LD and I didn't remember it until a few minutes after waking!!

Wow! What a thrill! I didn't do anything, but just the realization that I was actually dreaming hit me like a punch to the stomach. It's shocking, isn't it? I was standing in my bathroom at home, and somehow it dawned on me that I could be dreaming. I wash my hands very frequently cause I'm a freak about keeping my guitars clean (it's actually almost unhealthy ) and I tend to remember to RC when I get up, so I think that might be part of it. I don't know if I started the dream there or if I moved there and RC'd, and I vaguely remember looking around a bit and checking my clothes. I can't recall if I realized I was dreaming and then looked at my hands, or the other way around, but I didn't have the right number of fingers, and they looked a little weird, just a tiny bit like they do when you're on mushrooms.

As soon as it dawned on me that I was dreaming, like I said, it hit me like a ton of bricks. My first thought was just to notice, truly, how real it is... nothing you read can prepare you to actually be standing in your dream looking at your hands, dumbstruck. My heart felt like it almost leapt out of my chest, and I started to awaken. I told myself to calm down, I can't remember exactly what I said, but I focused on keeping calm for a moment. It worked, but things still seemed to be less real than they were... I tried to spin, but something went wrong. I don't know if the damage was done and I was awakening no matter what, but it didn't feel like I actually spun, so I tried again, and again I almost seemed to be more aware of my body in bed. Maybe this was on the way to a false awakening. Soon the room faded away and I spent a few minutes in that black void, before losing my awareness totally.

Well, it looks like my oneironauting has begun. Thanks to this website, and you, Gab, in particular, for all of the help!