Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

1. That wasn't SP
2. Don't aim for SP
3. You're not falling asleep, and if you don't fall asleep you can't enter a dream

...

Oh yeah, and don't aim for SP.

So my question is how can i reach SP?
Jk, I heard that a lot of times that's not what I'm looking for it's just that I can't fall asleep while getting thrown arround in my room. Any advice for the falling asleep part ?

Mats:

Okay, first, memorize this:

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

1. That wasn't SP
2. Don't aim for SP
3. You're not falling asleep, and if you don't fall asleep you can't enter a dream

...

Oh yeah, and don't aim for SP.

Also, I suggest that you reread the session of this WILD class about the noise; it might help you to be reminded that it is not a good idea to pay too much attention to things like "SP" or HI. I am not sure what you mean about "getting thrown about the room" -- that is likely HI, though -- and I assume that during your WILD attempt you know that you are not being thrown anywhere, regardless of what it feels like, but seeking a condition that doesn't even occur while falling asleep is not the solution (more in a sec). You might just need to relax, let the noise happen, and calmly let sleep come.

WILD is about getting to a dream without losing waking-life self-awareness. It is not about getting to "SP." This is especially true because, as Chtharlhie noted above, with WILD those things you feel during the beginning of a your attempt aren't even sleep paralysis. At most you might be feeling a bit of REM Atonia, but in truth you are simply feeling your body relax in normal preparation for sleep. Actual sleep paralysis, when it does rarely occur, would be felt during the waking-up stages of sleep, and not when falling asleep. I suppose that with REM Atonia or full relaxation you will stop getting thrown about your room, but the throwing is going to stop anyway, you do not need to make a goal of something your body is going to do on its own. In WILD the noise amounts to little more than distractions on your path to WILD. These distractions are simply your conscious witness of things your body does every time it falls asleep. Don't elevate the importance of these things, these distractions which you should do your best to ignore.

Bottom line: "SP" is not a component of WILD; try not to make it one. Your body will fall asleep, and will likely do so faster and with your waking-life consciousness intact if you choose to just let it do so, without paying too much heed to the stuff that goes on along the way.

Don´t aim for sleep paralysis, got it!
First it should have said arround, I´m sorry, posting from my phone on dreamviews isn´t very feasible.
I think I got it, just let it pass without paying too much attention to it and it will not distract me anymore. Ill try counting as an anchor tonight, maybe it´ll take away the attention from the feelings of the antonia and I can concentrate more on myself.
Thanks to both of you

Successful DEILD, I think…

So I attempted a DEILD not too long ago. I realized I had just awoken from a NLD, stayed completely still and tried to fall back to sleep consciously. I couldn’t really remember having any dreams, or else they were just very hazy, so I thought I would just create a new one instead or see what would happen.

After about 5 seconds I got some “OBE”-like sensations like leaving the body etc. I then found myself walking around in complete darkness. I’m not sure how long this lasted but I eventually had a LD which was very clear and vivid.

I’m just wondering, as the first part of the LD seemed to be complete 'darkness', do you think this was a moment of delta or NREM sleep? Or possibly my expectation of being in a dark room? I’m not sure how long this moment lasted, but when there eventually was scenery, I knew it had to be a LD based on the DEILD attempt, but I couldn’t really remember transitioning from the (delta?) state to the LD. Thanks.

^^ Yes, that was probably a brief pause in NREM. It could be that you caught your dreaming mind unawares and, though in REM, it took a few moments to spool up another dream, but it was much more likely that you were simply not in REM yet.

There's nothing wrong with that, of course; I've even been known to recommend the occasional foray into delta sleep myself! It was also impressive that you had the good sense to patiently wait it out while the "actual" dream found its way to you.

And, of course, congrats on the DEILD!

First off Sageous, a big thank you for your classes! I've read them and I respect the work you put into them.

I'm new to the board and new to lucid dreaming in general. I discovered it accidentally on youtube and I was interested immediatly. I didn't practice anything, but i read on the subject a bit. I remember 2 to 3 dreams a night mostly or one very vividly. Shorty after I got my first and most vivid lucid dream till this day. It was in the middle of the night. I woke up and went to sleep immediatly. I found myself awoke again in my room. The weird thing was, my walls were green, so I was like huh? Wait a minute! I must be dreaming! When I had that thought my dream started falling apart. Like bricks crumbling down the image disappeared. I quickly forced myself to relax and closed my eyes and concentrated. When I opened my eyes I saw soap bubbles and I floated along to a club. It was filled with people and the there was a big screen where I saw one girl dancing. I thought to myself this is not what I want! With one thought the club was empty. I was now in the middle of the club and the club was empty. So I thought looking around. I want stormtroopers! Then they magically arrived from the doorways marching in. I wanted to change my appearance to superman and I walked over to the mirror and changed my appearance and saw what my mind was doing. It flipped between all sorts of comic book style super mans I've seen in my life and finally my subconscious decided I would be the dude from man of steal. Now there were a few stormtroopers and one actually attacked me. I flew in the air and came down with a punch a dealt with him. I thought to myself they are attacking me because I look like superman. i decided to become Darth Vader but my mirror image became distorted. I didn't know what to do, so I wished for more stormtroopers. In stead scout troopers walked in. They were very slow so I thought go faster and they all started to run in. Even a tank showed in the other room that now appeared behind me. The driver asked me if his spot was ok. I told a little back and followed my wish. Then the dream changed. I was in a room and doors were locking. I knew a ghost would appear, but me being superman I flew up again and beat the ghost down. Then I started losing lucidity and the soon the dream fell apart. I woke a happy man !

So that was my short history. I had a few very short lucids after that, but they were without any training. When I started training DILD I actually got less lucid dreams. I had really short ones, but not as awesome as the other one. I flew again shortly and had a lot false awakenings since. So after reading up on them, well they didn't happen. It looks like the more I read the less dreams I have.

So I decided on WILD. I relax, let my body go numb. See HI, but I fall a sleep all the time. Have crazy dreams, wake up and think about why I didn't recognize those crazy things! Could it be that I am too tired these days? My second son was born around the 24th of may. After that I was less lucid I think.

Come to think of it. I tried WILD and I started hearing voices. I heard a niece of mine say 'Hey Robert' then I was wide awake. This only happened one time though. Was I close?

I started using your Mantra technique for a about a week or so, but i can't seem to find the right Mantra for me. I keep forgetting or I get distracted by random thoughts and images popping up. I've tried building a room and imagine myself in it and interacting with everyone. That goes well because I have a vivid imagination, but when I start dreaming everything just stop. I live the dream, but can't be critical. I hope you can give me a few tricks, because I loved my first experience. I have a lot of things I'd like to do. My major goal is to talk to my higher self, guardian angels etc, but I have decided to have some fun and test grounds first. I want to master Lucid dreaming before I go at the more serious stuff.

Oh almost forgot. I was trying WILD and fell a sleep. After minutes I awoke and I felt I was floating inside my body. Since I have a soar back these days that felt great. It lasted a few minutes but then my body woke up.

Lastly, how important is WBTB in WILD and DILD? I have small children so sleeping is essential, because my oldest (2,5 years old) always comes to our bed around 7:30 . So upon awakening in the night I turn around an concentrate and fall a sleep again and try to WILD. Any tips?

Again thanks for everything so far!

Best,

Robert

Welcome, Robert!

That was an interesting first experience; thanks for sharing!

Now on to the next one:

Originally Posted by bbl

So that was my short history. I had a few very short lucids after that, but they were without any training. When I started training DILD I actually got less lucid dreams. I had really short ones, but not as awesome as the other one. I flew again shortly and had a lot false awakenings since. So after reading up on them, well they didn't happen. It looks like the more I read the less dreams I have.

That is not a surprise, honestly. I am not sure why, but the quality of a first LD is often difficult to repeat in subsequent attempts. But don't worry, you seem like a person who will be back there eventually, if not soon.

So I decided on WILD. I relax, let my body go numb. See HI, but I fall a sleep all the time. Have crazy dreams, wake up and think about why I didn't recognize those crazy things! Could it be that I am too tired these days? My second son was born around the 24th of may. After that I was less lucid I think.

It could certainly be that you are too tired, or mentally fatigued. It could also mean you simply aren't finding the optimum time to attempt your WILD (more in a sec). Also, it could be that you are lacking in some mental prep; have you read the sessions about mental prep in the WILD class yet? If not, it might be a good idea, as would scanning at least the beginning of my Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread.

Come to think of it. I tried WILD and I started hearing voices. I heard a niece of mine say 'Hey Robert' then I was wide awake. This only happened one time though. Was I close?

You may have been! Next time you hear a voice, though, try to ignore it, as the distractions of such noise as HI could cause unwanted things to happen, like waking up, if you pay them too much heed.

I started using your Mantra technique for a about a week or so, but i can't seem to find the right Mantra for me. I keep forgetting or I get distracted by random thoughts and images popping up.

Keep looking for a manta that works for you; one will turn up. Just be sure it is simply, one that holds your attention, and one that means something, especially in relation to your dreaming goals. Also, a week is not a long time, so it might be a good idea to keep at it.

I've tried building a room and imagine myself in it and interacting with everyone. That goes well because I have a vivid imagination, but when I start dreaming everything just stop. I live the dream, but can't be critical. I hope you can give me a few tricks, because I loved my first experience.

There is no trick, unfortunately, except keeping at it... and doing your day work (i.e., RC's, RRC's, thinking about your goals, developing a solid mindset, working on your timing, etc); day work may be the most important factor for you (and for anyone) I think; day work and timing (more in a sec).

I have a lot of things I'd like to do. My major goal is to talk to my higher self, guardian angels etc, but I have decided to have some fun and test grounds first. I want to master Lucid dreaming before I go at the more serious stuff.

Cool! Try to keep your goals simple and low in number at first, though, just to get your feet wet.

Lastly, how important is WBTB in WILD and DILD? I have small children so sleeping is essential, because my oldest (2,5 years old) always comes to our bed around 7:30 . So upon awakening in the night I turn around an concentrate and fall a sleep again and try to WILD. Any tips?

WBTB is very important in WILD (probably crucial), and unimportant in DILD. Because you want to do WILD as far into your sleep cycle as possible to better catch a REM period, you probably don't want to start a WILD attempt, with WBTB, until after at least five hours of sleep. You will need to do a little experimenting to find the best time to start your WILD dives, but that best time will unfortunately need to be driven by your sleep cycle, and not by your child's visiting schedule. In other words, you either will need to schedule your WILD attempt on a day when you know your child won't be joining you or perhaps switch to DILD, which does not require WBTB (just day work and maybe MILD).

Also, awakening in the night and then immediately going back to sleep is not the best way to attempt WILD, for a number of reasons, including but not limited to the facts that you might not be awake enough to really focus and your next REM period might be too far away.

I know all these things I am saying might imply much extra work or shifting of schedules, but your extra effort will likely be fruitful for you. So, I suggest that you first look into more daytime work and do some experimentation in timing your attempts, and you might start getting some more experience from which to build.

Good luck!

Newbie here with only 2 accidental DILD's under my belt. The last three nights / mornings have been my 1st 3 attempts at WILDing and of course I've experienced some pretty nuts (to me at least) things even though I haven't been 100% successful. Following is my experience and I'd love to hear if this has been pretty typical or abnormal.

Night 1: (the longest details as night 2 & 3 I'll just discuss differences)

I woke up that morning at about 9 o'clock and knew that I could sleep in for longer. Because of that I decided to try my first WI LD. Not knowing much about WILD yet, I primarily knew I wanted to fall back into a dream state while maintaining awareness. I had only read about really one potential thing to expect, REM Atonia. I went in blind to anything other than thinking that might happen.

I decided I would try to envision the dream state I wanted to fall into while telling myself to relax but remain conscious that I was going to enter a dream and still be aware. I cycled through a few scenes in my imagination and landed on riding a horse in a dense forest with rivers and waterfalls. I imagined myself looking around as I rode, taking in the scenery, and feeling the motion of the horse beneath me.

Eventually I noticed some physical effects, starting with my hands getting pins and needles and eventually going numb. I have an issue with some nerves that cause me to get numb hands when laying down sleeping sometimes, so this feeling was actually something I was fairly accustomed to, but I took it as a good sign. Shortly after that the rest of my body started to feel the effects. Starting with my feet and then legs, I had small muscle spasms and numbness. After the legs is where it got really interesting.

My breathing became very shallow and my heart beats seemed faster. I found I had to allow the shallow breathing against my better judgement as deep breaths would stop the progression. Once I did the effects seemed to jump over my upper body and move into my eyes. It started visually first, with the light blacks you have when you close your eyes turning into deeper and deeper pitch black in quick waves or pulses. At the same time I had strong spasms or twitching in my eyelids and around my eyes that came in quick waves and increased in strength every wave. Still fully aware this was a bit alarming any I was tempted to shake it off. However I assumed this was normal and let them do their thing. Just then I started to notice that in the deep blacks it was almost like my eyes were open in a pitch black room instead of looking at the inside of my eyelids. I felt like I would see visuals at any time and just then I felt my bed shake a little. To my frustration I remembered my two little shitzus were sleeping with me and getting restless. It was enough to pull me out of the cycle. I didn't dare get up and let them out because I knew at that point id have to get up and start the day. That said, I tried again hoping they would stay still.

I ran through the same cycle about 4 times - feet, legs, eye twitching and color darkening, etc. each time my dogs moved right as I felt I was about to transition. The last time my body was completely numb, and the twitching / spasms moved beyond my eyes into my other face muscles. This distracted me from the dream setting I had set up so I transitioned to imagining a scenario hat fit in with the face and eye spasms - my wife sitting behind me and massaging my face and eyelids. This seemed to help, but the face and eye spasms were extremely strong to the point the center of my head felt like it had a finger pressing strongly against it and I was stuck in this awkwardly strong sort of smile with my lips. Regardless I remained as calm as possible And felt like I would see things any second and prepared myself to push through any scary experiences (as I've heard can happen at this point) by talking myself out of them with happy thoughts and a " this isn't real" mentality. Right then my bed shook more than before, and I realized my daughter had woken up and crawled in bed with me. I knew I had to get up and looked at the clock. 10:50. Almost 2 hours of failed attempts but I left the situation confident this proved my ability to MILD in the future and feeling like is get though it easier next time due to having less of a surprised adrenaline rush from the effects.

Night 2: woke up at 1:30am and not realizing that only a few hours of sleep I wouldn't be ready for REM yet I decided to give it another try. Very similar experience except at some point past the spasms I started to feel very light and did start to get some very subtle images as if they were little windows facing down into scenes of mountains or cities up high. Every time I got that far the cycle seemed to start over and I tried over and over again until I realized my alarm was going off and it was 7:00. As far as I know I was aware and in and out of some state of Aware sleeping that entire time.

Night 3: woke up at 8:00am this morning. Knowing I might have another hour or so I tried again. Same story this time with a few differences. I was even more relaxed through everything knowing what to expect. I got as far as hearing some brief unexplainable noises. The major diff here was that I got to a point where my entire body felt like it was being lifted at some point. Right before my daughter woke me up my head literally felt like it was being pushed straight up by some sort of slow moving pulley system. Still, all my attempts to sit up or roll over without using muscles, force visuals, etc. failed.

One other crazy item of note. Today after breakfast with the family I closed my eyes and out of habit began to look deep into the darkness and within 30 seconds or so my eyes started having the same spasms that have been occurring during the Atonia. Thought this was pretty nuts for obvious reasons as although i may have been tired I couldn't have been anywhere near sleep.

So, I've learned quite a bit in the last 3 days. Apparently It comes very easy for me to stay alert as my body falls asleep. Real world distractions are my biggest barrier. My timing needs to be more intentional. Etc. any other thoughts or suggestions on my experiences? I'm really curious how common these major facial spasms are, as they set quite a trip. If I find myself again in a place of aware sleep with no dreams is there anything specifically beneficial I could be using this strangely comfortable and peaceful time for? All comments appreciated.

Yes it was very interesting. I've had a few Lucids since. At one occasion I became Lucid and started to mess with the dreamcharacters. I was in a hospital and I dressed the doctors in carnaval clothes with a single thought hahaha. I just made them walk in. Then I wanted to transport to the country my family originates from but in stead I met a pocahontas like woman lying in a hospital bed. We started talking and all of a sudden a child ran in and her heart stopped. It was really intense I lost lucidity. Next time I should treat it like a movie and take a step back.

Another lucid dream of mine, was when i was in the storage of my old appartment. I was there with a man I don't know. Suddenly I say to him: Aren't you supposed to tell me I' dreaming? He looks at me and starts laughing. He says, yeah you're right. I told him we should explore where we are. He agreed and we walked to the door. When i went trough I opened my eyes and woke up . Did a few reality check to make sure.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Welcome, Robert!

That was an interesting first experience; thanks for sharing!

Now on to the next one:

Also, it could be that you are lacking in some mental prep; have you read the sessions about mental prep in the WILD class yet?

Yes I have read everything but I'm planning to re-read them all. Altough I'm not getting very lucid these days they highly motivate me. I was a bit dissapointed at first, but reading all the experiences I know I'm acutally going pretty fast and have pretty high control in my dreams for a beginner.

Keep looking for a manta that works for you; one will turn up. Just be sure it is simply, one that holds your attention, and one that means something, especially in relation to your dreaming goals. Also, a week is not a long time, so it might be a good idea to keep at it.

'Don't think you can, know you can'

There is no trick, unfortunately, except keeping at it...

Cool, I will do that. I won't give up.

Cool! Try to keep your goals simple and low in number at first, though, just to get your feet wet.

Yeah I know, but it's hard when you've already experienced what I did. I want to fly the millennium falcon . But I know what you mean. That's why I decided to just explore the dream that's given to me. Too bad that the first door I walked trough woke me up

So, I suggest that you first look into more daytime work and do some experimentation in timing your attempts, and you might start getting some more experience from which to build.

Yeah you're right. I'll go to bed earlier and try to find the right time. When I wake at night I can be pretty focussed, but like you said, maybe it's not my REM cycle. I usually sleep 6,5 hours a night, maybe 7. Perhaps I should extend that.

How many Lucids do you have in a week? Is it sometimes hard for you too?

Good luck!

Thanks for all your time and tips!

Best,

Robert

Hello, a few weeks back I did a WILD-attempt and had some interesting stuff happening, however I don't know how to progress from the point that I reached and do the dive. I did read all your WILD-classes though.

Straight out of the DJ:

After I was back home from the exam (French) and had sat on the computer for about an hour writing previous entry I had under estimated how tired I actually was... I was exhausted. I decided to lay in my sister's bed as it's better quality than mine and I decided to do a WILD. For the first time I decided to throw some breathing exercises into the WILD-mix and did that for 10 minutes. I was really relaxed after just 15 minutes, then I just let my mind wander around and sometimes fall back thinking "Don't fall asleep...". After 30 minutes I felt my body getting slow and heavy and my head started to tillt to the right, I didn't care and let it just happen but then something weird happened. Suddenly I feel like I get inflated like a balloon, my inner-ears swell like when you drive around in the mountains and for the very first time did I hear auditory hallucinations because previous attempts at WILD failed or I did them using Binaural beats. I heard a bee or wasp flying over my head which was mildly worrying but again I just let it happen. It happened two times but I never knew how to transition, my only succesfull WILD attempts were pretty much DILDs that happened after WILDs. Anyway at some point I fell asleep and I had many FAs and a bunch of dreams. Also my sense of time was completly distorted, I was worried when I woke up I had slept all day and tomorrow I have another exam, but in the end it was just 2 hours.

Thanks for any future advice!

Originally Posted by Admatha

So, I've learned quite a bit in the last 3 days. Apparently It comes very easy for me to stay alert as my body falls asleep. Real world distractions are my biggest barrier. My timing needs to be more intentional. Etc. any other thoughts or suggestions on my experiences? I'm really curious how common these major facial spasms are, as they set quite a trip. If I find myself again in a place of aware sleep with no dreams is there anything specifically beneficial I could be using this strangely comfortable and peaceful time for? All comments appreciated.

Yes, Admatha, real-world distractions seem a problem for you (you really ought to have the dogs sleep in another room when you attempt a WILD -- keeping your daughter out might be problematic, though! ), but you may also be paying way too much attention to the stuff going on inside your head and body as you fall asleep. Try to ignore the noise as much as you can, keeping focused on the coming dream instead. Timing might also be problem, as WILD's don't always work very well when you decide to try one upon waking... you might consider actually scheduling your WILD attempts for a specific time or day.

I don't know anything about the facial spasms, except that they might not be as important as you think. A lot of strange things can happen as your body shifts to sleep; try to ignore them, or at most use them as markers on your way to WILD.

Yes, if you are lucid during NREM, or delta sleep, you can certainly consider it an opportunity to do a little exploring. I actually started a thread called Exploring Delta Sleep some time ago which you might want to check out... I also published an article about it in the last issue of Robert Waggoner's Lucid Dreaming Experience magazine, if you want something more concise.

Interesting stuff, though, Admatha; I hope you'll share more as you progress!

Originally Posted by bbl

How many Lucids do you have in a week? Is it sometimes hard for you too?

First, remember that it is quality that matters, not quantity! Counting how many LD's you have isn't a great idea, and comparing your counts to others is potentially worse. That said:

I'm very mildly lucid pretty much all the time (sort of a side-effect of doing this for so many years, I guess), but these days I reserve my attempts for full-blown high-level lucidity to one morning per week. So from my perspective, I only have a couple per week, during that session... but I try to make them worth the wait!

During my peak years a few decades ago, I had as many as 100 decent LD's in a month... but I was much younger and stronger then, and had a lot more opportunity to sleep a dozen hours a day. Nowadays it's more about getting to one good dream and focusing on specific goals than it is about just doing it; quality trumps quantity every time, for me.

Is it sometimes hard for me? Of course it is, and likely always will be!


LDman:

I think you might find what I said to Admatha above useful to you as well, because you may be paying too much attention to the noise as well, and might consider planning and preparing for your WILD attempt, rather than just spontaneously deciding to do one. Also, in WILD it is better to try to stay focused than is to let your mind wander, because losing focus often leads to losing awareness as well, and then, well, you're just asleep! You might consider a mantra, or maybe just keep an image of the dream you wish to have in your head.

Also, one nice benefit of WILD is that it is also a good way to have DILD's since attempting them puts your head in the right place for LD'ing in general. Remember that it doesn't matter how you became lucid, only that you did!

Thanks Sageous. Appreciate the insight.

Thanks for your honesty Sageous. Even a master has a hard time so i'm not alone.

Took another shot at Wild last night. I had a lot of dreams I remembered when I woke up. After the 4th dream it was time to try out some WILD, but I only got up for 15 minutes, because it was getting late. I used the matrix mantra and I saw a lot of HI and fell into the dream, but I lost consiousness immediatly. I had a crazy dream about an expensive hotel room with a girl I know. In real life we're just friends, but here apparantly we were in a relationship. She was going out and she was going to leave me. I agreed she should go and when I came back to the hotel room a chinese man (the owner) was already showing the room to new guests. I told him we weren't leaving and proved to him we still had a week to go. They eventually left and I was alone. Somehow I felt threatenend by the room and got up from bed. I saw my reflection in a dark window and I started training jumping roundhouse kicks like van Damme (I used to do martial arts). I sucked at it and couldn't get my legs very high. I thought I needed more time and better timing and all of a sudden I realized that the time between me jumping in the air and landing was waaaay to long. I immediatly got lucid and started feeling the floor to stay in the scene. Then I got curious about my journey. I walked up to a stone wall and I thought about going right trough and I did, walked straight trough, but I was now in a small corridor between two walls. I couldn't think of anything else and I'm a bit ashamed to tell this, but I thought think of something crazy and I told the dream there should be naked women behind the wall. I walked trough and discovered that my subconsious created half topless women in nurse suits hahaha. I talked to them, lost my lucidity for a while and took one in a room . Walking out of the room I was in a trainstation and there was a train in front and a subwaytrain behind me. Somehow I did a RC, accually 2, the nose and the hand. Somehow the hand failed but I tested the nose 2 times. I was lucid again. I asked myself should I get on the train. Naahhh, I thought about Neo and wanted to fly off and the scenery got ripples all over them and took off. I didn't fly very fast though although I took off in a hurry. I flew high and there were trees and I remembered, don't lose lucidity again! I shouted I'm dreaming and called upon my spirit and dreamguide. I landed and turned around. I saw a guy I know approach from far away and I thought hell no, you're not my guide. I wanted to go to Africa and visualized the golden grass and from far away I saw Mamuts and Giraffes approaching. I ignored them and wanted to go there and took the spin, but in stead of going to Africa I opened my eyes and woke up

That is not a surprise, honestly. I am not sure why, but the quality of a first LD is often difficult to repeat in subsequent attempts. But don't worry, you seem like a person who will be back there eventually, if not soon.

Like you said, sooner than I thought . But I want to learn WILD too, so I'll keep at it.

Best,

Robert

Well took another attempt the other day. I felt the SP coming and although I almost fell a sleep (not consious) I awoke because of the heavy blanket. I felt my face go numb and I knew i was getting there. I ignored it and say HI and they became a small rectuangle. It was like i was in the theater watching a movie. I saw my wife and our newborn sitting on the couch. I don't have fond memories of that house so I fought the image and then it turned to tom & jerry cartoons and I lost the image all together. I wanted to step inside the image, but I didn't know how. I fell a sleep afterwards and entered a dream where I immediatly got Lucid. I just knew I was dreaming.

Any tips on the transition?

Thanks,

Best,

Robert

^^ That sounds like a fair attempt, Bbl; and good job ignoring the noise!

Just one small tip for the transition: if you literally see a dream approaching (that "movie" image you describe), let it fully approach and envelop your perspective, and hold your concerns about content until after you have fully joined the dream.

Don't fight the image, even if it is one of which you are not fond. There will be time later to lucidly adjust what you've been presented, and plenty of opportunity, once firmly in the dream, to simply walk away from unwanted schemata. This is especially true in cases like this, when your dreaming mind actually "sends" you an approaching dream on which you can focus as it approaches, rather than struggling to maintain your own imagery, mantra, or goals during the transition to sleep and dreams.

So I suggest that you welcome whatever image arrives, making the completion of the transition to dream your priority, and leave dealing with content for later.

All in all, though, that seemed like a strong attempt, and a nice progressive step toward your next dive.

Hi Sageous,

Thanks for your reply. I work at home this week so I've decided to take afternoon naps when I can. Just a few hours ago I put in my earplugs, used a towel to block the light and did my thing and again the SP awoke me. The funny thing is, it tricked me haha. The sound was so loud it awoke me and I thought a motorcycle was in my backyard. I thought he's probably in the streets or something but my wife ran out of bed. Then I thought did she close the door? I opened my eyes and in stead of the white towel I saw a brown veil which was covering my eyes and behind an attic like window with big ugly curtains. I knew I was hallucinating, but still I was worried about the motorcycle. I shifted my mind in the hope to fall back asleep, but my doubt awoke my body and eventually myself. I turned around and my wife was lying comfortably playing candy crush on her phone hahaha. I turned around and tried again but ended up falling a sleep for a few hours.

I will try your tips tonight when i wake up again .

Thanks,

Best,

Robert

^^ That's a good example of the inherent risk of attempting WILD during afternoon naps!

Napping is different than a night's sleep, and even the sleep following WBTB. There is something in our napping program that seems to favor being awake, or waking up (probably an old defense mechanism preventing us from dozing too long during the day). So you do need to make an extra effort to hold onto your self-awareness as you doze. I've found success with using both a good white noise machine and maintaining my mantra regardless of what I might hear (and thereby avoiding an urge to explain to myself what every odd noise I here might really be).

Nice try, though; good luck on your next nap!

Originally Posted by Admatha

My breathing became very shallow and my heart beats seemed faster. I found I had to allow the shallow breathing against my better judgement as deep breaths would stop the progression. Once I did the effects seemed to jump over my upper body and move into my eyes. It started visually first, with the light blacks you have when you close your eyes turning into deeper and deeper pitch black in quick waves or pulses. At the same time I had strong spasms or twitching in my eyelids and around my eyes that came in quick waves and increased in strength every wave.

Hi Admatha,

this sounds a lot like my transitions, or more like the beginnings of my transitions, that I have not yet witnessed to complete. Either I get startled and cancel the WILD attempt, or I lose focus and fall asleep. If I fall asleep after a serious WILD attempt I have a good chance to have a LD anyways, even if I did not manage to stay awake through the process.

But what you describe, the flatter breathing, heart beating fast - that sounds very very familiar to me. Twitching of the eyes and all that, all that happened to me during my very first LD, which resulted from a WILD attempt. Check my DJ if interested. Also, the light pulsing to darkness, you seem to be able to describe the sensations a lot better than me. I can not offer you more insight, but maybe knowing that it is not only me experiencing the "noise" like this helps me. Thanks for sharing your progress.

Ok, looks like I kinda figured out what works for me. I have to be really tired and will then relax. Almost asleep I will try to maintain awareness by focusing on my head, like I am only a head lying in bed
A minute later I am dreaming! Problem (maybe not really a problem) is, that I find myself in the void everytime after WILDing. I seem to have a vision problem and I can't open my eyes without risking to wake up. I them try to look through my eyelids and that always works very well. My question is, how can I jump into a scene from the beginning?
Visualize it during the transition? Mantra with setting intention?

^^ Nice work, Mats; it's always good to find what works for you!

Originally Posted by lucidmats

...Problem (maybe not really a problem) is, that I find myself in the void everytime after WILDing. I seem to have a vision problem and I can't open my eyes without risking to wake up. I them try to look through my eyelids and that always works very well. My question is, how can I jump into a scene from the beginning?
Visualize it during the transition? Mantra with setting intention?

This could be a matter of timing more than anything else; you might simply be encountering a bit of NREM (that void) on your way to the dream. I wouldn't worry about it -- in fact, I personally would relish the moment, because it can be the most relaxing of your session (I've noted elsewhere that delta dreams can be fun, too). You could just stay calm -- with eyes closed, of course (more in a sec) -- and wait for REM and for your dream to spool up.

So, that pause in the void might be unavoidable, but you you could pass the time by visualizing your planned dream, perhaps even trying to form its first scene before you... this will only help and do no harm. A mantra that sets your intention is also an excellent idea in general, but it won't make a difference here, either.

A quick note regarding eyes in dreams: you don't have any eyes in a dream, as your physical eyes are closed and not participating in your perceptions. So there is nothing to open, regardless apparently of what you're being told elsewhere. If you start messing with your eyes during a WILD dive -- when you're practically awake the whole time -- you stand an excellent chance of waking up. Better to leave them closed, and let your dream perception do its thing (eventually). You will see just fine when the dream starts, and concern about whether your eyes are open, closed, or you are looking through your lids only tends to muddle your focus on that dream.

Sageous, first off: thank you for keeping this thread up and running. Regardless of whether DILD is better, or WILD is better . . . It is regardless very kind to help people with what is for most a difficult skill.

Background: I've wilded three times, twice using Galantamine. The other time was a wake-up from a nightmare. Some might call it a DEILD, but I've had many DEILDs, and this was a much different experience, and required a lot more concentration on my part. DEILDs sort of just happen for me (or don't )

What happened: Last night, I attempted to WILD after about 6-7 hours of sleep. I tried Sivason's method of sleeping in an uncomfortable posture (I slept with my knees up and together. When I realized I was falling asleep, I moved into my normal side sleeping posture, and waited to see what would happen.

I noticed images. Not striking HI, as I have seen before during WILDs, but--more common for me--mental imagery, as though I am thinking and picturing things especially vividly. I am walking somewhere, petting a cat, then sitting down on a curb somewhere. Sometimes I "snap out of it" and recognize this stuff as dream--even sometimes pointing and yelling "Dream!" only to wake up

So this time I resolved to just wait and see what would happen. I then fell asleep.

I have tried a mantra in the past, and it has helped me in the attempt when I had the nightmare (I repeated "stay calm" to myself--probably not the best choice). But otherwise, I just fall asleep with the mantra either carrying over into an NLD, or nothing happening at all and falling asleep. Sometimes DILD and sometimes don't.

Any tips, other than to keep trying? Sometimes I feel like my MILD attempt and my WILD attempt counteract one another, but don't know if this is merely my own mental creation. Once again, thank you for all of your help.

^^ Sadly, ThreeCat, the best tip is to keep trying, but here are a couple of thoughts:

First, you might try maintaining that uncomfortable position just a bit longer; I don't know why I suggest that, but it seems like a good hunch.

Next, if you find yourself in a similar position when the dreamlets (my guess about those mental images) come, then change that position. In other words, if you begin to sit on the curb, stand back up, or cross the street (it will appear for you if it's not there yet -- or something will), just do something that runs a little counter to the usual pattern -- and yeah, screaming "dream!" is not the best idea, I think... try to be more subtle. WILD is all about maintaining self-awareness, or in this case self-control, so it is best to assert that self-awareness at all times, especially when the dreamlets are threatening it with such distractions.

Your intuition about a mantra is sound, BTW. Maintaining a meaningful one throughout the mental imagery, the HI, and even into the dream is a good idea, even if it does not go well at first.

Finally, the greatest tip of all is keep at it. Experience and continued daytime work will see you over all these hurdles. Eventually.

Oh, and the feeling that your MILD and WILD attempts counteract each other is indeed a mental creation. MILD is an excellent prep for doing WILDs, and it adds the added ammunition of preparing you for a DILD, should the WILD fail. The two work together quite well, I think.

So thanks for sharing (and the kind words), and I hope that helped. Good luck on your next dive!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Sadly, ThreeCat, the best tip is to keep trying, but here are a couple of thoughts:

First, you might try maintaining that uncomfortable position just a bit longer; I don't know why I suggest that, but it seems like a good hunch.

I will give this a shot tonight, and let you know how it goes.

Next, if you find yourself in a similar position when the dreamlets (my guess about those mental images) come, then change that position. In other words, if you begin to sit on the curb, stand back up, or cross the street (it will appear for you if it's not there yet -- or something will), just do something that runs a little counter to the usual pattern -- and yeah, screaming "dream!" is not the best idea, I think... try to be more subtle. WILD is all about maintaining self-awareness, or in this case self-control, so it is best to assert that self-awareness at all times, especially when the dreamlets are threatening it with such distractions.

This is where I am running into trouble. My consciousness tends to fade in and out during a WILD attempt, and if I am lucky I will find myself in such a situation where the dream is almost formed. Still battling to stay aware long enough for more solidity to reach the dreamlets (I think you are exactly right about what they are). The ones this morning were just barely a veneering of dreamlet--not sure how to describe that--visible but not nearly solid at all. Do you think if I imagine the dream body moving, that may help? Or will that likely disrupt the formation of the dream?

Oh, and the feeling that your MILD and WILD attempts counteract each other is indeed a mental creation. MILD is an excellent prep for doing WILDs, and it adds the added ammunition of preparing you for a DILD, should the WILD fail. The two work together quite well, I think.

I think I felt this way because my MILD has taken on the form of a trance of sort--super jet-fighter concentration on a particular phrase until the only thought I am thinking (aware or unaware) as I fall asleep is that phrase. I see what you are saying though. I have an idea and will try it tonight. I will relate it if anything interesting happens This definitely helped a lot. Thanks!