Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Congratulations, imJB!

Though it seems to me you had a successful WILD, and did quite a bit for your first time, but here are a couple of thoughts:

Originally Posted by imJB

WBTB about 5hrs after sleep. About an hour later I'm lying and thinking about not thinking about my body (as beginners probably do!!) and I recall a moment where I suddenly DID forget about my body and in that flash where my consciousness was focused on my mind only I felt his buzz sweep over my body from head to two. It was accompanied by a motion/acceleration (in no particular direction) don't really recall any noises apart from the buzz. I wasn't shocked awake or anything but it did initiate my thinking and I woke.

At this point, had you paid less attention to the noise, you might have made it to your dream on this attempt. It seems as though your mind was in the right place, but then you got distracted by that buzz and woke up. In this case, I think getting in to your WILD on this try might have given you a better dream, because you still might have had enough time left in your sleep cycle to really explore the dream. Next time, if you try to avoid that distraction, you might just make it in on that first try!

But getting in on the second try certainly doesn't hurt, of course:

At this point I thought I'd missed my chance so to speak but thought it was still great to have experienced this and turned my attention to sleeping. Almost an hour later though (was finding it hard to sleep and did for the remainder of the night) and after much tossing and turning i turn onto my side and out of no where start noticing strong visuals. I remember a lot of faces actually + patterns. Interesting that I have noticed faces before when I've thought later I was on the verge if sleep.

I was getting different buzzings this time as well as hearing pulses I would describe them as. This time I just wasn't as distracted by them so I try to just watch them and wait to 'see my hands'. Conscious throughout, I knew I was moving into a dream. It must've been around 10-15 (hard to tell) secs and I was looking at my hands floating in the sky.

See what happens when you try to avoid distracting noise? Very nice!

The issue with the dream was that it was largely fuzzy and pixilated. I am by no means an experienced LD (3rd time I've been lucid) so there was an element of me 'trying everything perhaps and a bit of excitement).

I'm assuming your dreams aren't usually fuzzy or pixilated? If they're not, then I have a feeling that the condition of this dream was not a result of your WILD, or the presence of your awareness, but rather because your sleep cycle was pretty much done, and your dreaming mind, which was already finishing up for the night, wasn't providing enough processing power to your dream imagery. As you get more experienced, you should find ways to coax your dreaming mind back into action, mostly through patience (give your unconscious a second to get back in the game) and a little imagination (start conjuring your own images and schemata), so I wouldn't be too concerned. After all, you did have some stuff going on:

My flying was pretty lame (floating?). I was struggling to fly to the ground so I try the technique of 'I want to be there'. I pick a blue house and soon enough Im standing at the door. I think about trying to feel the walls to increase vividness with limited success. I walk in. I think to myself about trying to get small. But all i seem to do is bend over and stand up again.

I see people in the house but their faces are impossible to make out (although I know instinctively who they are) but I cant really see them well or their faces. I start losing the dream and try spinning around but decide to wake up to record the dream - did not want to lose the memory to build future attempts on!

It sounds like an interesting experience to me! That was a nice alternative to flying -- and a good decision not to keep on trying to fly, because that would have been a real frustration, I think.

One suggestion: if you are having an excellent LD, and things are going well, don't worry about remembering it later. Stay in the dream as long as you can, enjoy it and explore it, and make the best of your successful WILD. Since LD's are moments of waking-life consciousness activities, you will likely remember it quite well upon waking -- just like you would remember any big event that happens to you in waking-life. LD's are not like NLD's, which are lost pretty much upon waking. By waking yourself up to record a dream, or worring about remembering it at all during the dream, you might be robbing yourself of more lucidity, and more adventures. Trust your ability to remember later; you likely will (even if you have lousy dream recall in general).

- this was the first time I've tried supplements (both taken at my WBTB). I took half the minimum suggested dose (2mg) of Galantamine and (200mg) of Choline bitrate. These are perhaps the reason I struggled to sleep afterwards

Yes, gallantamine/choline can have a stimulative effect. You might throw a little melatonin into the mix (taken the night before your WILD attempt) to counter the effects of gallantamine. I can't tell you how much to take, though, given that just 2mg of gallantamine worked for you, a low dose of melatonin would be a good place to start.

- when I woke for the WBTB I didn't recall any dreams (strange for me after 5hrs). Could the poor dream quality be at all linked to the fact I have had 2 really tiring weeks? (More deep sleep / Less rem sleep) or a sleep cycle timing issue?

Sure. Your dream recall, and dreams in general, are definitely going to be affected by an exhausting waking-life schedule.

- if it makes any difference, in the sleep after the WILD I had maybe 2-3 additional dreams in the 1.5hrs before getting up (vs. no recall in first 5hrs of sleep).

You probably had plenty of dreams before the WBTB as well; you just don't remember them (dreams generally always accompany REM sleep). You were probably able to remember the post-WILD dreams because you were very close to wake-up time (if not well past it), so your memory functions were already starting up for the day. Who knows? you might also have retained a bit of your "WILD" state of mind, and that extra dab of consciousness made the dreams easier to remember.

All in all: nice work, John; thanks for sharing!

Sageous, brilliant, thank you very much. I am tempted to ask a hundred more qns but much of what you say resonates so I will be patient and wait until I can hopefully share another success story!
Cheers
John.

I had a very slow back to sleep moment a few nights ago. I was relaxing and relaxing and letting go mentally, for a long time, before it started to "take", I was just trying to get to sleep, but felt quite aware through it, eventually noticed my trademark noise (ragged breathing, eyes twitching around a bit, body buzz sensation), and tried to keep right on relaxing but got too alert. In retrospect I felt like I had enough drowsiness to totally "let go" and sink into, I should probably do that next time. Whenever I get close in a WILD like that I feel like I start to "hold on" mentally and that is most probably the wrong thing to do. Perhaps just letting go entirely and aiming for unconsciousness at that point will do the trick.

^^ That sounds like a plan, and, on paper, it even makes sense. But keep in mind that "aiming for unconsciousness" may do just that -- thrust your condition toward unconsciousness, with self-awareness left safely behind. This may contradict something I said earlier, FryingMan, but you might do better to maintain that "holding on" attitude, but try to vector it toward self-awareness only, letting your body go about its business of falling asleep.

In other words, WILD is all about NOT "letting go entirely;" that's just sleep.

Could it be that you've gotten too good at letting go, FryingMan? There is a balance, you know, in this game of consciousness that is WILD.

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh I absolutely appreciate the nature of the balance that WILD requires, especially now that I have more LD events under my belt, including more WILD attempts!

To use the metaphor of a set of scales, there are two basic approaches to producing a balance: taking large steps between attempts, which can cause oscillation between too much and too little, or slowly adding/subtracting from the initial guess, which approaches the balance only from one side.

My practice consistently weighs in too heavily on alertness/wakefulness. So I was suggesting my approach could be one of taking large steps and approaching the balance from over/under oscillations. The reason I thought of that is that I feel that I know how to take the first steps of that approach, the "letting go". If the result is unconsiousness, then next time, "let go less," and so forth. Which could eventually evolve into "just let go of body wakefulness."

The other approach, of simply "holding on to awareness only, not body-wakefulness", I'm not sure how to actually put that in to practice, at least for the first steps.

And practically speaking, I would much much rather fall asleep more and get the opportunity to DILD during this experimentation process, than lie awake for hours. How would I even know I'm making progress getting closer to the balance that way?

Of course the danger in my suggested approach is that I don't make progress there either and I just perpetually oscillate between sleep and wakefulness every time.

Nobody said it was easy

p.s. too good at letting go? What would the symptoms be of that? If I'm losing 3 hours of sleep per WILD attempt every time I try, I don't see that I'm too good at letting go....or maybe I don't understand your last comment?

^^ Okay, then; it sounds as though you have a plan in place that might work for you... thanks for the clarification, and hopefully those oscillations will eventually balance for you -- all without shaking you silly!

You may have misunderstood my "...too good at letting go" statement, FryingMan. In retrospect, I think I did as well, that I had it backward -- I should have said something like "don't try too hard to 'let go,' or else you finally, irreparably, will" -- but I may have just been sensing this "large steps" plan in your earlier post, and wanted to issue a warning about swinging that scale too far. So, since you obviously understand the substance of that warning already, feel free to disregard what I said, as it seems a bit off.

I had an interesting WBTB-WILD experience last night. As an experiment, to keep my awareness awake while my body fell asleep, I did the SSLD cycle thing on a previous dream scene.

I visualized a past dream scene and then cycled my attention from the visual, to the aural, to the tactile of that scene. After about ten minutes I heard a low frequency tone, and began having trouble holding on to the visualization. I realized I was going through SP and that another scene was trying to emerge. When I let go of the visualization I fell into an extremely vivid lucid dream. It ran for about ten minutes, and I got to explore a magnificent cathedral with some DCs and do some other fun stuff.

I’ve never had a successful WILD that quickly before, but whether it was the result of the power of expectation, or my adapting the SSLD thing to WILD remains to be seen.

Might also have been the power of MOOD. For whatever reason, I was in a very peaceful state of mind at the WBTB.

Or maybe the SSLD just served as a distraction that took my attention off my body more efficiently than just letting it happen.

Originally Posted by Nailler

Might also have been the power of MOOD. For whatever reason, I was in a very peaceful state of mind at the WBTB.

It's interesting that you bring up mood, the parallels between WILD techniques and meditation are obvious, but particularly in this instance appeared to play a role.

Or maybe the SSLD just served as a distraction that took my attention off my body more efficiently than just letting it happen

Distraction and a vessel for self-awareness? Perhaps SSILD even catalyses hypnagogia, though I wouldn't want to go as far as speculating that SSILD might induce sooner entry into REM.

I'll defer to Sageous' opinion, though.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I'll defer to Sageous' opinion, though.

Your opinion's just fine, Ctharlhie; indeed, it's nice to see you here expressing it again!

I was going to pass on commenting on Nailler's post because, first, it speaks for itself, and second, because I was afraid I might lapse into another lecture about ignoring "SP," or at least making it less important, but I think you note something interesting. So:

Nailler:

I'm not sure it was so much your interesting twist on the SSILD technique that so quickly caused this excellent LD as it was the presence of mind you had to possess just to do that twist. In a sense, it had much more to do with mood, and your ability to calmly put these things together. SSILD was simply the vehicle for that mood (as you already noted); I have a feeling that any technique you tried (or no technique at all) might have yielded the same result. Mental prep is what it's all about; the techniques are only secondary tools.

I hope that made sense, and didn't muddle Nailler's clear post.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Your opinion's just fine, Ctharlhie; indeed, it's nice to see you here expressing it again!

Hopefully back for good. I took an unintentional hiatus due to a mixture of Uni workload and social life, and the accompanying awful sleep habits which all but destroyed the very nice LD streak I'd got going. I'm pretty much back to building my awareness from scratch again, though that also means getting wisdom from threads like this and the Fundamentals Q&A anew.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Mental prep is what it's all about; the techniques are only secondary tools.

I hope that made sense, and didn't muddle Nailler's clear post.

Makes a lot of sense, Sageous. As I gain experience, the importance of mental prep becomes ever more clear to me.

I have a feeling that any technique you tried (or no technique at all) might have yielded the same result.

Funny you mention that aspect. Just yesterday I had an idea for an experiment where I would make up a "new technique" and claim remarkable success with it in this forum. Maybe LEIFILD... "Little Ear In Finger Induced Lucid Dream"... just to explore how much a role belief and expectations play. I rejected the idea because I thought it would be hugely disrespectful to this on-line community... and if I'm not mistaken, the experiment has already been done, more than a few times, in this forum... albeit unintentionally.

And again, Sageous, thanks for your continuing help and support.

Thank you!
Yeah - a rush or a kick - that describes it pretty nicely. One could probably sell it, if one could..

Wow - congratulation Nailler!!
What do you mean by seeded visualization?
How did you go about it? Mantra, SSILD, something other?
Recollecting and state of mind/mental prep - definitively - I started meditating a bit and am surprised how good it does me.

Originally Posted by StephL

Wow - congratulation Nailler!!
What do you mean by seeded visualization?

When I'm close to falling asleep, I create a brief visual... a person, place, or thing in the blackness or patterns I'm seeing behind closed eyes. Then I immediately leave it alone. After a while, these visual seeds take root and begin to grow and expand on their own. It's not long before one expands into a full dream scene with me in it.

How did you go about it? Mantra, SSILD, something other?

For prep, and I began doing this a couple times a day, I cause myself to become acutely aware of my present time reality. This is as simple as noticing the fine details in my sense perception the shades of color, any patterns, background sounds etc. This isn't anything original with me. In fact it's based upon the first exercise in Stephen LaBerge's book.

But I go beyond La Berge on this... and I hesitate to go into detail as the idea might be upsetting to some, whereas discovering it on ones own is quite a revelation. Has to do with the nature of awareness, perception, and reality.

As for the actual dive, I keep it pretty simple and just stay awake while watching my body fall asleep. The only thing added is that at any point where if I feel myself falling asleep, I just barely crack my eyes open for a second or two. I think if I could catch that point every time and stay just on the edge of sleep, I would be able to maintain self-awareness and WILD almost at will.

The eye crack thing and the seeded dream thing are both from Thomas Yuschak's book "Advanced Lucid Dreaming." The downside of the book, at least in my opinion, is that the author is heavily into "supplements" some of which although legal, are really just chemicals/drugs, not "supplements." My thought is that in the long run, inducing lucidity through artificial means would lesson ones chances of learning how to achieve maximum lucidity naturally. Plus, there's no telling what the long term effects of messing with brain chemistry might be.

Recollecting and state of mind/mental prep - definitively - I started meditating a bit and am surprised how good it does me.

I've read quite a bit on the subjects of WILD and DILD in the past few months. In my opinion, Sageous nails the most important success/failure factor in his first tutorial, and I trust he won't mind me quoting him here...

Excerpt From: http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...prep-part.html

Self-Awareness

The root of WILD is that you are able to maintain waking awareness while your physical body drops into sleep mode around you. Though the concept is simple, and seems to make sense, the act of doing it can be very difficult. This is because your entire nature is geared toward abandoning waking consciousness in the name of sleep. A powerful tool for confounding nature and staying awake while falling asleep is self-awareness.

Self-awareness is nothing more than knowing that you exist, that your existence effects everything and everyone around you, and is effected by everything and everyone around you. Seems like a no-brainer, I know, but most people -- hell, almost all people -- don't so much as consider this concept, much less make it a part of their daily life. Self-awareness rarely happens in waking life because it is much easier to wander through existence unaware of your place in it (as long as there’s food, friends, and video games, who cares, right? Right.). Yet if you were to master self-awareness, WILD’ing would be easy; literally second nature. It’s that simple. DILD and MILD, for that matter, would be easy as well. So would things like getting along with your loved ones, and coping with the challenges of waking life. That is the power of self-awareness.

I also find it interesting to notice the degree of self-awareness, or the lack thereof, in others.

Congratulation Sibyline!!

Originally Posted by Nailler

But I go beyond La Berge on this... and I hesitate to go into detail as the idea might be upsetting to some, whereas discovering it on ones own is quite a revelation. Has to do with the nature of awareness, perception, and reality.

Thank you for your detailed answer!
But you got me curious - since I have no idea of which sort of upset you might talk - if you don't want to share it here - but wouldn't mind pming me it shortly - I would be very thankful!
But of course no problem, if you don't wish to do that!
Happy WILDing Nailler!

Originally Posted by StephL

But you got me curious - since I have no idea of which sort of upset you might talk - if you don't want to share it here

Noooooo! Don't be so mysterious! I want to be upset. Spill the beans, Nailler!

A WEIRD ONE

Last night after a WBTB, WILD attempt I found myself in what I thought was a vivid dream. In the dream, I was looking for proof that I was dreaming. I ran into a number of dream signs, and became convinced I was in a dream, rather than in a waking state. I announced to myself, "this is a dream" and nothing happened. This struck me as really odd because usually at that point I become lucid.

After waking up, I puzzled over why I didn't become lucid. And then it hit me like a ton of bricks... I was already at least partially lucid!

I didn't even try to exercise any control in the dream, because I didn't believe I could. Yet I was in fact exercising a degree of control in that I was actively searching for dream signs. The lesson is that when I'm aware enough in a dream to be looking for dream signs, I'm already at least semi-lucid, and I should just get on with it.

On a more basic level, the lesson is again that our dreams are largely a product of our expectations. When we go to sleep intending and expecting to spot dream signs, that's what we'll dream about. On the other hand if we fully expect to find ourselves cooking pancakes in outer space...

The question is, how do we turn on enough "critical function" to take advantage of such lessons while asleep?

Niall

PS to Sibyline and Stephl --- I'll clear up the mystery once I'm a little more certain what I have to say isn't B.S.

I had a really cool WILD dive today. The sensation of the descent was completely new, and I replicated it in DEILD. Oh, and Sageous - I'm sorry I thought badly of you. I didn't mean it, I was just trying stuff out.

Originally Posted by Sibyline's dream journal

I began to count myself back into the dream, struggling a bit against the feeling of suffocating, but aware enough to know that I was in no danger. I began to slide downward, more and more rapidly, my hair flowing behind me as if I was on a water slide. I tried to look through my eyelids but saw nothing but darkness. I remembered Sageous saying that once you're diving, you're already in the dream, so I decided to open my eyes. I was awake. Giving Sageous a mental slap, I lay still and closed my eyes, then realized that one of my eyes wasn't quite closed. I blinked it shut with some difficulty because the position of one of my hands was drawing it slightly open, and I didn't want to move my hand. I began to count again, suddenly sinking into my bed, then sliding again as before.

Sliding through the void, nothing was forming around me. I knew I wanted to do three of the TOTM, and I knew which ones, but I needed scenery, or at least a DC. Still nothing was happening, so I pictured a person I wanted to summon. To my astonishment, I stopped sliding and he began to form in front of my eyes. I have never been able to do this before, but there he was, forming like a CGI cartoon character, body part by body part. I marvelled at my creation, but then stupidly began to critique my work. Why must I always do this!?! I wanted to see him in the flesh, rather than this animated figure, but as his human figure began to take form, the dream disintegrated.

Whole dream:
Afternoon DILD-DEILD chain: creating a 3D cartoon character from scratch - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I loved that sliding sensation! Usually I just sink into my bed, but this was so exhilarating.

Last two WILD attempts went nowhere. Just when it seems I'm getting the hang of it, it becomes difficult again. What worked to get me back in the groove last time I stalled, was to go back to working on prep and state of mind stuff, so I'm going to do that again.

I've had that happen before. It's a weird one because you aren't actually lucid, you are just running through a routine in which the actor in the dream believes he/she is lucid.

In dreams we often do strange things that we wouldn't do if we were more self-aware. We can't really claim responsibility for our actions because the "self" which is active during waking life is nowhere to be found. The lights are on but nobody's home.

Originally Posted by bluremi

The lights are on but nobody's home.

I've had the nobody's home thing too, but this one was a little different. For me it's far easier to remember lucid dreams than it is non-lucid ones. And this one, I still remember start to finish hours later, without remembering a memory of a dream... what I remembered when I first woke up.

I guess the very act of looking for dream signs would be a dream sign. In any case, this one is still hard for me to think with.

Niall

Hi everyone. I just attempted a WILD a few minutes ago, but I failed. I always get stuck at the same spot. I know SP is different for everyone, but this time for me, I lay down to nap as I usually do for a WILD attempt. I lay still and eventually drift off to a dirt road that I'm walking on. Out of nowhere, I realize it's a dream (this never happens to me, which is why I tend to WILD more) and it causes me to wake up. As soon as I wake up, I remain perfectly still as I become aware of the vibrations and stuff. I hear someone's voice laugh, then it trails off and echoes. Here's where I get stuck.

What do I do here? The vibrations got really intense, so I tried the "roll out of bed" thing, but it didn't work. I opened my eyes, did a RC, and I'm awake. This was my first experience with the Roll-Out method, so I don't know if I'm doing it correctly or not.

Thanks in advance!
--Reamous

^^ I suggest that you take the time to look through the class to which this thread is attached, Reamous. You will find that there is much more to WILD than just lying still, and you will also find that "SP" and those vibrations are just so much noise that you would do well to ignore (paying attention to that noise could be the reason you get stuck).

Also, with the proper mental prep (and practice), you should eventually learn to not wake up when you find yourself on that dirt road. Check out the course; it might be worth your while!

Ok, thanks for the info! I've been scouring the web for exactly what to do at that point, I guess I just forgot to thoroughly check this site as well.

^^ I hope you do; I have a feeling you will not be disappointed! However, if after going through the class you still have no answer to getting stuck, then feel free to ask again here or on the class's Q&A thread, and I'll try to come up with something.

Good luck!