What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Okay; before we begin: you were doing WILD's when you were six?

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That struck me as remarkable as well, and I at first doubted the memory. Then I did a little on-line research and found that it's not that unusual.

" They were also asked if they felt they could change or control what happens in a dream. Lucid dreaming was reported by 58% of 6-year-olds, which surprised researchers."
Why Children Have More Control of Their Dreams - WSJ.com

From a study:
Lucid dreaming: an age-dependent brain dissociation.
Voss U, Frenzel C, Koppehele-Gossel J, Hobson A.
Author information
Abstract

The current study focused on the distribution of lucid dreams in school children and young adults. The survey was conducted on a large sample of students aged 6-19 years. Questions distinguished between past and current experience with lucid dreams. Results suggest that lucid dreaming is quite pronounced in young children, its incidence rate drops at about age 16 years. Increased lucidity was found in those attending higher level compared with lower level schools. Taking methodological issues into account, we feel confident to propose a link between the natural occurrence of lucid dreaming and brain maturation.

© 2012 European Sleep Research Society.

When I get a chance, I'm going to see what I can find out about the "European Sleep Research Society."

Niall

Edited to add...
For about two weeks prior, I had been experiencing a vague memory of "watching the colors" in order to fall asleep. Felt very odd. Working on WILDING apparently brought that memory to the surface. Makes sense to me now.

Niall

^^ I am very familiar with the likelihood of children having LD's, and even have pondered a few reasons for it; mostly wrapped around the idea that a child's undeveloped and very solopsistic worldview is likely to find dreams just as real as waking life. No need to offer me proof, but thanks anyway!

No, what I am amazed at is that you were practicing WILD's at six years old -- actualy maintaining your self-awareness into sleep at an age when self-awareness itself is a distant concept, much less the focus and discipline to maintain it throughout the transition to sleep.

Did I misunderstand? Did you mean to say you were LD'ing at six, but not through WILD? If that's the case, then never mind, and yes, I would be much less amazed!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Did I misunderstand? Did you mean to say you were LD'ing at six, but not through WILD? If that's the case, then never mind, and yes, I would be much less ammazed!

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I might have been a little older. Most of my memories from that time frame are rather vague. I do recall that I had a habit of "watching the colors" while falling asleep. I'm not sure if I truly stayed conscious, or if I would recognize I was dreaming and become lucid after the fact. I did want to be conscious in my dreams, and I'm certain that I liked the experience of it... at least until the nightmares.

In my lucid dreams I could will myself to float a few feet above the ground. I remember that because I recall how disappointed I was when I tried doing it in real life and could not.

As I write this, more memories of that time frame come back to me. I remember being worried that some day I might think I was dreaming when I wasn't, try to fly off the roof or something else stupid, and hurt myself. During that period, every once in a while I would see if I could float, just to find out for sure if I was awake or dreaming. I recall once I was able to float and it impressed the hell out of my friends. I was elated! Then I realized I was dreaming and that kind of ruined it.

Hmmm...
To this day I have a scar on my forehead from "falling" off the top framework of a swing set. I don't recall the event at all, but I wonder if I thought I was dreaming and tried to fly?

Maybe what you wrote earlier about the purpose of the EVIL IT was correct. A little boy who has trouble telling the difference between when he's dreaming and awake could get into a lot of trouble. Was probably for the best that IT intervened and put an end to my LDing.

I was a strange little kid.

Niall

For the LDHSW is there any specific position you need to be in because I read that alot of people are back on the bed, and hands on their sides, but when I sleep i sleep on my side, is that ok? (should i be on my side when i try to WILD?) (Can I use the position i find most comfortable?)

^^ Though some disagree, I've found that position doesn't really matter... just make sure the position you choose is one you know you'll be comfortable in for a while, and also one that you know won't interfere with your sleep (i.e., if you tend to snore while sleeping on your back, that may not be the best position to choose). So yes, if you like to sleep on your side, it's okay to try a WILD on your side. Speaking of that:

There are those who believe that sleep posture does matter. For instance, the Tibetan dream yogis believe that, for best results, men should sleep on their right side and woman on their right when dreaming; worth considering, I guess!

FAILED WILD
Felt like was going to be successful as I seemed real alert when some noise came in. But then fell asleep and had a vivid dream in which I was crying because my girlfriend was leaving to join the navy. (I don't have a girl friend.) Then I got mad about it and tried punching a hole in the wall with my fist, but the wall was like rubber. I went up this ornate but narrow spiral staircase (missed dream sign) told my aunt (one who passed away last year) and she was sympathetic. Then we went to the closet where something was moving in a cloth bag. Opened it up and it was a little boy. REALIZED I WAS DREAMING and became lucid. Realized it didn't matter that my girlfriend was joining the navy because it's all a dream. Great relief, then I woke up.

I feel like I'm making some progress on getting WILD down, but still have difficulty with the balancing act between awareness and unconsciousness. On the plus side, I'm getting better at timing and prep... recognizing if I'm approaching REM or NREM. Also spotting dream signs, but too often after the fact.

Happy new years, guys!

Time to tell you, how grateful I am for all your help and inspiration - for our deep-reaching conversations - for having met you on here!
Thank you so much for dedicating all this time to helping your dreaming-disciples on our ways - letting us partake in your insights - and for having us have a look at your wonderful art as well!
You are somebody very special - thank you for all you do for DV!
May your year be enlightened and lead you further on the ways of your heart!

Attachment 6240

^^ I hope your 2014 is filled with joy and truly unique experiences, Steph, and deepest thanks for your kind words!

Last night's WILD try was successful, but then I quickly got interested in something going on and forgot I was dreaming. Later after wandering around in Hawaii, I'm in a hotel room playing with a radio-like thing that's supposed to induce lucid dreams, but I don't twig on the obvious dream sign. After a lot of fooling around with the thing, I have a lucid dream in the dream, but it's not real. Sigh...

It's as if there's this memory barrier between my waking and sleeping self... like it's difficult to bring a memory/intention across on a WILD. With DEILD it seems easier to remember to RC and stabilize. I don't know why. Maybe because the transition into sleep is so subtle for me with WILD?

Niall

PS - Belated HAPPY NEW YEARS!

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Originally Posted by Nailler

...It's as if there's this memory barrier between my waking and sleeping self... like it's difficult to bring a memory/intention across on a WILD. With DEILD it seems easier to remember to RC and stabilize. I don't know why. Maybe because the transition into sleep is so subtle for me with WILD?

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I guess you could call it a memory barrier, since, even though with WILD you've brought your self-awareness with you, your sleeping body is still intent on disconnecting general access to memory, so memory access -- switching memory on, as it were -- is always going to be difficult in a LD, even if you got there through WILD. So you can't just bring a memory across with you in a WILD, because you must still deal with the systems of your sleeping brain, and those systems are naturally designed to create those barriers to memory.

It does make sense to me that it would be a bit easier, or at least seem to be a bit easier, during DEILD, especially if you manage to complete your DEILD before ever fully waking up. This is because your self-awareness is already in sync with your sleeping body, so you aren't really dealing with the more stark transitions of WILD. Indeed, you're not really transitioning at all, so memory access "now" in a DEILD is about as easy (or difficult) as it was 5 minutes ago, before the DEILD started.

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PS - Belated HAPPY NEW YEARS!

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And to you! :cheers:

My first DEILD was a few days ago, and was a revelatory experience. I experienced how a dream forms, for me. I had always wondered about this part of classical WILD, having only once before (and very briefly) experienced it (and not being 100% sure of that experience). Actually now I do believe my earlier brief experience was a WILD because it was a similar experience: I'm suddenly aware that I'm viewing some scene, which is a stable image, it doesn't fade or flash away in an instant.

I bring this up because this morning while trying to fall back asleep after getting up for a while, perhaps you could call it a nap, I still felt quite tired so I decided to return to bed. And after relaxing and starting to doze off after a while, three times I experienced the awareness that a stable image had formed in my mind, usually lasting a few seconds (so not flashing away instantly), but this time when I turned my attention to the images they faded away. I was not particularly trying to WILD, just sleep.

But these experiences have re-ignited my interest in WILD as I believe that with my increased LD experience, together with my closer familiarity with relaxing mentally and physically and getting to sleep, I may be able to pull off a classical WILD now.

I suppose several factors may have prevented the dreams from fully forming: 1) I had had enough sleep for the day so my body was not seriously interested in sleeping more; 2) I had not set intention to WILD ahead of time; and 3) it just wasn't "in the cards" this morning for a WILD.

Anyway, thought I'd drop a note about some recent experiences...any feedback or input certainly appreciated!

Wow! Had my first WILD last night. sadly the dream was short and a bit low quality. I would sincerely appreciate some guidance on how to improve?

WBTB about 5hrs after sleep. About an hour later I'm lying and thinking about not thinking about my body (as beginners probably do!!) and I recall a moment where I suddenly DID forget about my body and in that flash where my consciousness was focused on my mind only I felt his buzz sweep over my body from head to two. It was accompanied by a motion/acceleration (in no particular direction) don't really recall any noises apart from the buzz. I wasn't shocked awake or anything but it did initiate my thinking and I woke.

At this point I thought I'd missed my chance so to speak but thought it was still great to have experienced this and turned my attention to sleeping. Almost an hour later though (was finding it hard to sleep and did for the remainder of the night) and after much tossing and turning i turn onto my side and out of no where start noticing strong visuals. I remember a lot of faces actually + patterns. Interesting that I have noticed faces before when I've thought later I was on the verge if sleep.

I was getting different buzzings this time as well as hearing pulses I would describe them as. This time I just wasn't as distracted by them so I try to just watch them and wait to 'see my hands'. Conscious throughout, I knew I was moving into a dream. It must've been around 10-15 (hard to tell) secs and I was looking at my hands floating in the sky.

The issue with the dream was that it was largely fuzzy and pixilated. I am by no means an experienced LD (3rd time I've been lucid) so there was an element of me 'trying everything perhaps and a bit of excitement).

My flying was pretty lame (floating?). I was struggling to fly to the ground so I try the technique of 'I want to be there'. I pick a blue house and soon enough Im standing at the door. I think about trying to feel the walls to increase vividness with limited success. I walk in. I think to myself about trying to get small. But all i seem to do is bend over and stand up again.

I see people in the house but their faces are impossible to make out (although I know instinctively who they are) but I cant really see them well or their faces. I start losing the dream and try spinning around but decide to wake up to record the dream - did not want to lose the memory to build future attempts on!

Few added items
- this was the first time I've tried supplements (both taken at my WBTB). I took half the minimum suggested dose (2mg) of Galantamine and (200mg) of Choline bitrate. These are perhaps the reason I struggled to sleep afterwards
- when I woke for the WBTB I didn't recall any dreams (strange for me after 5hrs). Could the poor dream quality be at all linked to the fact I have had 2 really tiring weeks? (More deep sleep / Less rem sleep) or a sleep cycle timing issue?
- if it makes any difference, in the sleep after the WILD I had maybe 2-3 additional dreams in the 1.5hrs before getting up (vs. no recall in first 5hrs of sleep).

Thanks, would really love any feedback and suggestions.
Cheers
John

Congratulations, imJB!

Though it seems to me you had a successful WILD, and did quite a bit for your first time, but here are a couple of thoughts:

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Originally Posted by imJB

WBTB about 5hrs after sleep. About an hour later I'm lying and thinking about not thinking about my body (as beginners probably do!!) and I recall a moment where I suddenly DID forget about my body and in that flash where my consciousness was focused on my mind only I felt his buzz sweep over my body from head to two. It was accompanied by a motion/acceleration (in no particular direction) don't really recall any noises apart from the buzz. I wasn't shocked awake or anything but it did initiate my thinking and I woke.

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At this point, had you paid less attention to the noise, you might have made it to your dream on this attempt. It seems as though your mind was in the right place, but then you got distracted by that buzz and woke up. In this case, I think getting in to your WILD on this try might have given you a better dream, because you still might have had enough time left in your sleep cycle to really explore the dream. Next time, if you try to avoid that distraction, you might just make it in on that first try!

But getting in on the second try certainly doesn't hurt, of course:

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At this point I thought I'd missed my chance so to speak but thought it was still great to have experienced this and turned my attention to sleeping. Almost an hour later though (was finding it hard to sleep and did for the remainder of the night) and after much tossing and turning i turn onto my side and out of no where start noticing strong visuals. I remember a lot of faces actually + patterns. Interesting that I have noticed faces before when I've thought later I was on the verge if sleep.

I was getting different buzzings this time as well as hearing pulses I would describe them as. This time I just wasn't as distracted by them so I try to just watch them and wait to 'see my hands'. Conscious throughout, I knew I was moving into a dream. It must've been around 10-15 (hard to tell) secs and I was looking at my hands floating in the sky.

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See what happens when you try to avoid distracting noise? Very nice!

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The issue with the dream was that it was largely fuzzy and pixilated. I am by no means an experienced LD (3rd time I've been lucid) so there was an element of me 'trying everything perhaps and a bit of excitement).

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I'm assuming your dreams aren't usually fuzzy or pixilated? If they're not, then I have a feeling that the condition of this dream was not a result of your WILD, or the presence of your awareness, but rather because your sleep cycle was pretty much done, and your dreaming mind, which was already finishing up for the night, wasn't providing enough processing power to your dream imagery. As you get more experienced, you should find ways to coax your dreaming mind back into action, mostly through patience (give your unconscious a second to get back in the game) and a little imagination (start conjuring your own images and schemata), so I wouldn't be too concerned. After all, you did have some stuff going on:

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My flying was pretty lame (floating?). I was struggling to fly to the ground so I try the technique of 'I want to be there'. I pick a blue house and soon enough Im standing at the door. I think about trying to feel the walls to increase vividness with limited success. I walk in. I think to myself about trying to get small. But all i seem to do is bend over and stand up again.

I see people in the house but their faces are impossible to make out (although I know instinctively who they are) but I cant really see them well or their faces. I start losing the dream and try spinning around but decide to wake up to record the dream - did not want to lose the memory to build future attempts on!

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It sounds like an interesting experience to me! That was a nice alternative to flying -- and a good decision not to keep on trying to fly, because that would have been a real frustration, I think.

One suggestion: if you are having an excellent LD, and things are going well, don't worry about remembering it later. Stay in the dream as long as you can, enjoy it and explore it, and make the best of your successful WILD. Since LD's are moments of waking-life consciousness activities, you will likely remember it quite well upon waking -- just like you would remember any big event that happens to you in waking-life. LD's are not like NLD's, which are lost pretty much upon waking. By waking yourself up to record a dream, or worring about remembering it at all during the dream, you might be robbing yourself of more lucidity, and more adventures. Trust your ability to remember later; you likely will (even if you have lousy dream recall in general).

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- this was the first time I've tried supplements (both taken at my WBTB). I took half the minimum suggested dose (2mg) of Galantamine and (200mg) of Choline bitrate. These are perhaps the reason I struggled to sleep afterwards

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Yes, gallantamine/choline can have a stimulative effect. You might throw a little melatonin into the mix (taken the night before your WILD attempt) to counter the effects of gallantamine. I can't tell you how much to take, though, given that just 2mg of gallantamine worked for you, a low dose of melatonin would be a good place to start.

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- when I woke for the WBTB I didn't recall any dreams (strange for me after 5hrs). Could the poor dream quality be at all linked to the fact I have had 2 really tiring weeks? (More deep sleep / Less rem sleep) or a sleep cycle timing issue?

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Sure. Your dream recall, and dreams in general, are definitely going to be affected by an exhausting waking-life schedule.

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- if it makes any difference, in the sleep after the WILD I had maybe 2-3 additional dreams in the 1.5hrs before getting up (vs. no recall in first 5hrs of sleep).

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You probably had plenty of dreams before the WBTB as well; you just don't remember them (dreams generally always accompany REM sleep). You were probably able to remember the post-WILD dreams because you were very close to wake-up time (if not well past it), so your memory functions were already starting up for the day. Who knows? you might also have retained a bit of your "WILD" state of mind, and that extra dab of consciousness made the dreams easier to remember.

All in all: nice work, John; thanks for sharing!

Sageous, brilliant, thank you very much. I am tempted to ask a hundred more qns but much of what you say resonates so I will be patient and wait until I can hopefully share another success story!
Cheers
John.

I had a very slow back to sleep moment a few nights ago. I was relaxing and relaxing and letting go mentally, for a long time, before it started to "take", I was just trying to get to sleep, but felt quite aware through it, eventually noticed my trademark noise (ragged breathing, eyes twitching around a bit, body buzz sensation), and tried to keep right on relaxing but got too alert. In retrospect I felt like I had enough drowsiness to totally "let go" and sink into, I should probably do that next time. Whenever I get close in a WILD like that I feel like I start to "hold on" mentally and that is most probably the wrong thing to do. Perhaps just letting go entirely and aiming for unconsciousness at that point will do the trick.

^^ That sounds like a plan, and, on paper, it even makes sense. But keep in mind that "aiming for unconsciousness" may do just that -- thrust your condition toward unconsciousness, with self-awareness left safely behind. This may contradict something I said earlier, FryingMan, but you might do better to maintain that "holding on" attitude, but try to vector it toward self-awareness only, letting your body go about its business of falling asleep.

In other words, WILD is all about NOT "letting go entirely;" that's just sleep.

Could it be that you've gotten too good at letting go, FryingMan? ;) There is a balance, you know, in this game of consciousness that is WILD.

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh I absolutely appreciate the nature of the balance that WILD requires, especially now that I have more LD events under my belt, including more WILD attempts!

To use the metaphor of a set of scales, there are two basic approaches to producing a balance: taking large steps between attempts, which can cause oscillation between too much and too little, or slowly adding/subtracting from the initial guess, which approaches the balance only from one side.

My practice consistently weighs in too heavily on alertness/wakefulness. So I was suggesting my approach could be one of taking large steps and approaching the balance from over/under oscillations. The reason I thought of that is that I feel that I know how to take the first steps of that approach, the "letting go". If the result is unconsiousness, then next time, "let go less," and so forth. Which could eventually evolve into "just let go of body wakefulness."

The other approach, of simply "holding on to awareness only, not body-wakefulness", I'm not sure how to actually put that in to practice, at least for the first steps.

And practically speaking, I would much much rather fall asleep more and get the opportunity to DILD during this experimentation process, than lie awake for hours. How would I even know I'm making progress getting closer to the balance that way?

Of course the danger in my suggested approach is that I don't make progress there either and I just perpetually oscillate between sleep and wakefulness every time.

Nobody said it was easy :)

p.s. too good at letting go? What would the symptoms be of that? If I'm losing 3 hours of sleep per WILD attempt every time I try, I don't see that I'm too good at letting go....or maybe I don't understand your last comment?

^^ Okay, then; it sounds as though you have a plan in place that might work for you... thanks for the clarification, and hopefully those oscillations will eventually balance for you -- all without shaking you silly! ;)

You may have misunderstood my "...too good at letting go" statement, FryingMan. In retrospect, I think I did as well, that I had it backward -- I should have said something like "don't try too hard to 'let go,' or else you finally, irreparably, will" -- but I may have just been sensing this "large steps" plan in your earlier post, and wanted to issue a warning about swinging that scale too far. So, since you obviously understand the substance of that warning already, feel free to disregard what I said, as it seems a bit off.

I had an interesting WBTB-WILD experience last night. As an experiment, to keep my awareness awake while my body fell asleep, I did the SSLD cycle thing on a previous dream scene.

I visualized a past dream scene and then cycled my attention from the visual, to the aural, to the tactile of that scene. After about ten minutes I heard a low frequency tone, and began having trouble holding on to the visualization. I realized I was going through SP and that another scene was trying to emerge. When I let go of the visualization I fell into an extremely vivid lucid dream. It ran for about ten minutes, and I got to explore a magnificent cathedral with some DCs and do some other fun stuff.

I’ve never had a successful WILD that quickly before, but whether it was the result of the power of expectation, or my adapting the SSLD thing to WILD remains to be seen.

Might also have been the power of MOOD. For whatever reason, I was in a very peaceful state of mind at the WBTB.

Or maybe the SSLD just served as a distraction that took my attention off my body more efficiently than just letting it happen.

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Originally Posted by Nailler

Might also have been the power of MOOD. For whatever reason, I was in a very peaceful state of mind at the WBTB.

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It's interesting that you bring up mood, the parallels between WILD techniques and meditation are obvious, but particularly in this instance appeared to play a role.

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Or maybe the SSLD just served as a distraction that took my attention off my body more efficiently than just letting it happen

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Distraction and a vessel for self-awareness? Perhaps SSILD even catalyses hypnagogia, though I wouldn't want to go as far as speculating that SSILD might induce sooner entry into REM.

I'll defer to Sageous' opinion, though.

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I'll defer to Sageous' opinion, though.

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Your opinion's just fine, Ctharlhie; indeed, it's nice to see you here expressing it again!

I was going to pass on commenting on Nailler's post because, first, it speaks for itself, and second, because I was afraid I might lapse into another lecture about ignoring "SP," or at least making it less important, but I think you note something interesting. So:

Nailler:

I'm not sure it was so much your interesting twist on the SSILD technique that so quickly caused this excellent LD as it was the presence of mind you had to possess just to do that twist. In a sense, it had much more to do with mood, and your ability to calmly put these things together. SSILD was simply the vehicle for that mood (as you already noted); I have a feeling that any technique you tried (or no technique at all) might have yielded the same result. Mental prep is what it's all about; the techniques are only secondary tools.

I hope that made sense, and didn't muddle Nailler's clear post.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Your opinion's just fine, Ctharlhie; indeed, it's nice to see you here expressing it again!

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Hopefully back for good. I took an unintentional hiatus due to a mixture of Uni workload and social life, and the accompanying awful sleep habits which all but destroyed the very nice LD streak I'd got going. I'm pretty much back to building my awareness from scratch again, though that also means getting wisdom from threads like this and the Fundamentals Q&A anew.

What follows is an exchange of ours from a long while back:

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Originally Posted by StephL

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Buut - maybe 5 times or so - I started "making something" out of what I saw on the back of my eyelids.
After some time of black - there were black and white and grey clouds swirling about - I could make these take on forms - and with a certain complexity - a real scenery appeared, and got clearer and clearer - each time another one.

But it was so weird - every time I came to see real details full colours and all - there was an almost physical surge to draw me into the scene, which before I had only witnessed "from nowhere" so to speak.
And every time, I just could not let it happen, not on purpose, it was more or less unbconscious direct reaction.
I sucked myself back out.
It was really like having a short startle reaction, physical arousal went up a bit - and like on a gummy-band - I got my consciousness back in my body on my bed.
And had to more or less start all over again.
As said - it was several times, and I really tried to be prepared for it, and let it happen the next time..
Nope.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Your experience as I see it was not so much close to a WILD, Steph, but an actual successful WILD dive...with one small exception.

It seems that you managed to fall asleep while maintaining awareness (the WILD part), but there was no dream "waiting" for you -- in other words, you were in NREM, or delta sleep.

Much of what you describe above sounds remarkably like many of my excursions into delta. So there is a chance that you did everything right, but your body simply wasn't in its REM period yet. Trying to form a dream without the presence of REM can indeed yield the results that you got.

I think that "startle" reaction you kept getting was probably pretty normal too, because your mind was in a truly novel place, and focusing on it might have required too much of the stuff that wakes you up.

How to avoid this? Patience. If you're having trouble finding your dream, or are encountering odd phenomena like you did, simply assure yourself that it will pass and your dream will eventually form (or, perhaps, your dreaming mind will eventually permit you to form a dream). In other words, think of events like this for now* as just more noise, and ignore them. By ignoring them, you should reduce the overreaction you experienced and be able to hold your focus until the dream actually starts.

* Note that I said "for now," above. That's because later, when WILD is second nature to you, you might find delta sleep an interesting condition to explore and enjoy. For now it might be an obstacle, but later it might be something very, very interesting!


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That was in a WBTB attempt.
I have now made another experience exactly like that one some nights ago.
And it looks, you were spot on with guessing, I had strayed into delta that night.
Because this time, I had tried WILDing directly when going to bed - inspired by your delta-thread.

And it felt exactly the same again, and I didn't have that in my two only WILD attempts at WBTB, that had conjured up any effect - even if just in the form of strong vibrations plus at the first time a vision of a mandala.

This time again - when I looked at the back of my eyelids - after a while I got some grey swirling with some colours too - and then - like in a flash a detailed, very vivid scene, out of almost nothing, and I felt a strong surge towards it - and at the same time or shortly after - I almost physically bounced back from it.
I didn't feel, I had been dream-bodily present anywhere in that scene - I can't explain the surge-thing properly.

This is something else than me getting distracted and excited these two times with HH/HI.
It feels so strong - it overtakes me - I felt completely unable to get over it.
There is a very unique bodily feeling associated - around the chest - I do not know what to call that - but it has something positively exciting - almost blissful.
I went to that state of getting sucked 4 times - I was psychologically prepared to just let - well anything - happen.
But the startle was too strong for me.

Fascinating, though - I'd like to experiment further!

Do you have a special tip for how to deal with this getting overwhelmed for me?
I mean yeah - patience and further stabs at normal WILD - definitively - but if you could help me with this, too - I would be very thankful!
:)

Getting there seemed surprisingly easy - but well - so felt learning WILD, getting to my strong HH/HI on second try and after 2 min. - but then followed weeks and weeks of nothing.
Then around a week ago in a classical WILD-try - I had the same procedure - got distracted by HH - had been such a long time, I didn't even expect them..:roll:

But also around that time - I managed my first real non-lucid to LD DEILD - haven't reported that yet in here - shame on me.
I heard one of my auto-snooze alarms - waited it out without any reaction - there was a very short, strangely peaceful feeling moment, totally black - and then a stable scene turned up - and I was there. No noises whatsoever - and of course I didn't try to move.
Lying face-down - fittingly, what I first saw, was the ground from around bed-height up - covered in decorative pebbles.
It started with an oval of maybe a meter to half a meter and expanded from there.
Only now comes to my mind, why such a curious perspective!
I had been conscious almost only of my bodyposition, while awake - but that seems to have played into the construction of the first scene!
I didn't fall on the floor from 40 cm on entering the LD, though - I somehow came to stand there - can't answer, how.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Mental prep is what it's all about; the techniques are only secondary tools.

I hope that made sense, and didn't muddle Nailler's clear post.

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Makes a lot of sense, Sageous. As I gain experience, the importance of mental prep becomes ever more clear to me.

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I have a feeling that any technique you tried (or no technique at all) might have yielded the same result.

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Funny you mention that aspect. Just yesterday I had an idea for an experiment where I would make up a "new technique" and claim remarkable success with it in this forum. Maybe LEIFILD... "Little Ear In Finger Induced Lucid Dream"... just to explore how much a role belief and expectations play. I rejected the idea because I thought it would be hugely disrespectful to this on-line community... and if I'm not mistaken, the experiment has already been done, more than a few times, in this forum... albeit unintentionally. :)

And again, Sageous, thanks for your continuing help and support.

Interesting stuff, Steph, thanks for sharing!

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Originally Posted by StephL

Do you have a special tip for how to deal with this getting overwhelmed for me?
I mean yeah - patience and further stabs at normal WILD - definitively - but if you could help me with this, too - I would be very thankful!

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Sadly, I got nothin' -- other than patience and practice, of course! ;)

I guess all I could add to that is to remember, especially during times when you feel yourself getting emotionally or physically overwhelmed, that these things that are happening are not real. Remember that for the physical sensations as well, because, even though they might be pretty impressive, they are, in the big picture, insignificant. You will still get the rush that you felt, that blissful feeling (that is, happily, unavoidable), but you will know that it is not real or having a major effect on you.

In knowing that, in remembering that, all these things are products of your mind, are essentially harmless distractions, and that much of it would have been going on anyway had you not noticed through your awareness, you will find that your mind is much more calm, controllable. With this attitude in tow, it will be much easier to work through the really strange and exciting stuff.

So be patient, practice a lot, and remember. You know, I think that, in the end, is the only tutorial any of us need! Speaking of that:

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Originally Posted by Nailler

Funny you mention that aspect. Just yesterday I had an idea for an experiment where I would make up a "new technique" and claim remarkable success with it in this forum. Maybe LEIFILD... "Little Ear In Finger Induced Lucid Dream"... just to explore how much a role belief and expectations play. I rejected the idea because I thought it would be hugely disrespectful to this on-line community... and if I'm not mistaken, the experiment has already been done, more than a few times, in this forum... albeit unintentionally. :)

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That was nice you rejected it, because had you posted it you would have found yourself painted into a corner by all the folks who think your new technique is most excellent and works great! I'm totally confident that, if your mind is in the right place (your fundamentals are sound), any technique, no matter how silly, will work... but cynically pointing that out might just backfire on you!