Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

Originally Posted by RareCola

Personally, I got it when thinking about how prominent I am in the world. Just by "being" you're doing so many things. The air around you is flowing with your movement, you're breathing and exhaling it. I imagine the air as atoms and envision it flowing as I move and how it affects me and how I affect it. You're blocking light and creating shadows with your body. And there are so many more things you can look at. Of course, though, I'm not a master at this by any stretch so it may be best to wait until Sageous replies before taking my word for it.

A quick warning, RareCola (and any others here who share his results):

You seem to be advancing nicely in this technique, but you must be careful not to put too much importance on the "nature" portion of the RRC pause.

Sure, the nature portion of the RRC matters, especially in the early phases of your WILD's, and should be included -- it also sets the mood in a concrete way for further wonder. But if you put too much emphasis on your physical body's participation in the world around you, you run the risk of creating expectations of physical conditions within your LD which do not exist.

I'm concerned that I might have led a few of you a bit off the path. The RRC pause is essentially a moment for you to remember your interaction with reality, and that "your" includes your consciousness, your spirit, your sentience -- the very important bits of you that have little to do with nature. Indeed, the "self" in self-awareness is just that, and it is not your physical body. That's why I asked you to also wonder about your interactions with other people as well as other stuff.

Remember that there is no physical body in dreams, so there is little need to elevate its import in the RRC. Sure, it matters, and its the thing that's carrying your self from place to place and person to person, but in this context it is what your mind is telling it to do that matters more than what nature is doing to it.

Once more: to elevate the natural stuff going on around you above the activities of the conscious stuff that is going on within you could cause a real problem when you LD, simply because you might find yourself elevating the environs of the dream into something "real" over which you have no control, which could cause you to forget that that dream world is you, and in no way a product of nature... which would in turn put a real damper on your lucidity. So when you do RRC's (or RC's in general), try to find a balance that favors your mental and spiritual self over your physical body.

So what you're doing isn't wrong -- indeed, from a meditation standpoint I would imagine you're doing great! But for our purposes I hope you'll try to understand and try to get your entire self caught up in your RRC's.

I hope that made sense. If not, please ask again -- this is important.

Originally Posted by Sageous

A quick warning, RareCola (and any others here who share his results):

You seem to be advancing nicely in this technique, but you must be careful not to put too much importance on the "nature" portion of the RRC pause.

Sure, the nature portion of the RRC matters, especially in the early phases of your WILD's, and should be included -- it also sets the mood in a concrete way for further wonder. But if you put too much emphasis on your physical body's participation in the world around you, you run the risk of creating expectations of physical conditions within your LD which do not exist.

I'm concerned that I might have led a few of you a bit off the path. The RRC pause is essentially a moment for you to remember your interaction with reality, and that "your" includes your consciousness, your spirit, your sentience -- the very important bits of you that have little to do with nature. Indeed, the "self" in self-awareness is just that, and it is not your physical body. That's why I asked you to also wonder about your interactions with other people as well as other stuff.

Remember that there is no physical body in dreams, so there is little need to elevate its import in the RRC. Sure, it matters, and its the thing that's carrying your self from place to place and person to person, but in this context it is what your mind is telling it to do that matters more than what nature is doing to it.

Once more: to elevate the natural stuff going on around you above the activities of the conscious stuff that is going on within you could cause a real problem when you LD, simply because you might find yourself elevating the environs of the dream into something "real" over which you have no control, which could cause you to forget that that dream world is you, and in no way a product of nature... which would in turn put a real damper on your lucidity. So when you do RRC's (or RC's in general), try to find a balance that favors your mental and spiritual self over your physical body.

So what you're doing isn't wrong -- indeed, from a meditation standpoint I would imagine you're doing great! But for our purposes I hope you'll try to understand and try to get your entire self caught up in your RRC's.

I hope that made sense. If not, please ask again -- this is important.

Thanks for the advice! I understand what you're saying, only could you give some examples of what you do just to be sure?

Originally Posted by RareCola

Thanks for the advice! I understand what you're saying, only could you give some examples of what you do just to be sure?

Of course...in fact, I was just about to edit my last post with this thought, so I'll throw it in here first:

The RRC is not about drawing conclusions, or imagining the import of what is going on around you -- it is all about simply acknowledging that something is going on around you, at all times, and you (meaning all of your body, mind, and spirit) are involved. At all times.

Now...

What do I do? Pretty much exactly as the RRC is described in the session. But here, let me try to give you an example of what happens with me when I do a RRC:

As often as I can remember to do so (I have no set schedule, but it seems to be about once an hour, sometimes more), I simply stop whatever I'm doing and ask a version of those three questions. I don't use the words any more, but instead very quickly remind myself where I just was, where I'll be soon, and what I'm doing right now.

Then I simply wonder: I wonder about the impact all this has on me, my world immediately around me, including anyone I might be with. And vise-versa. How? I guess I try to pry open the gates of my mind, just for a few seconds, and let the world I'm living in wander freely through it, forming a reminder that I am a part of it, and it of me.

I only open the gates, though; I offer myself no explanation for what I feel or remember, and try not to imagine things that I know are not there -- this is not a state test for the power of self; it is a state test for the presence of self; it is extremely important not to add concepts or intellectualizations to the moment of the test.

Finally I gather myself and move on. These days the entire pause lasts just a few seconds, unless I'm involved in an argument with someone, or perhaps working on a trying art project or a particularly difficult bit of writing -- then I let the moment linger, perhaps for inspiration, or for the calming sensation it offers, or just so I don't have to go back to arguing or work for just a moment more.

What does all this look like physically, from someone else's point of view? Pretty much nothing at all -- I rarely even stand still during an RRC pause anymore, and only my wife really notices when I'm in the middle of one. So all I "do" is hold mentally still for a moment, eyes open or closed, standing, walking, lying down, or sitting, and just wonder.

I know it doesn't sound like much to describe but you know what? In the end an RRC shouldn't be much...that may be its whole point!


P.S. Keep in mind that this is only how I do an RRC... it does not need to be the way you do it. All that really matters is asking the questions, remembering your self, and wondering about it all...

Originally Posted by Sageous

Of course...in fact, I was just about to edit my last post with this thought, so I'll throw it in here first:

The RRC is not about drawing conclusions, or imagining the import of what is going on around you -- it is all about simply acknowledging that something is going on around you, at all times, and you (meaning all of your body, mind, and spirit) are involved. At all times.

Now...

What do I do? Pretty much exactly as the RRC is described in the session. But here, let me try to give you an example of what happens with me when I do a RRC:

As often as I can remember to do so (I have no set schedule, but it seems to be about once an hour, sometimes more), I simply stop whatever I'm doing and ask a version of those three questions. I don't use the words any more, but instead very quickly remind myself where I just was, where I'll be soon, and what I'm doing right now.

Then I simply wonder: I wonder about the impact all this has on me, my world immediately around me, including anyone I might be with. And vise-versa. How? I guess I try to pry open the gates of my mind, just for a few seconds, and let the world I'm living in wander freely through it, forming a reminder that I am a part of it, and it of me.

I only open the gates, though; I offer myself no explanation for what I feel or remember, and try not to imagine things that I know are not there -- this is not a state test for the power of self; it is a state test for the presence of self; it is extremely important not to add concepts or intellectualizations to the moment of the test.

Finally I gather myself and move on. These days the entire pause lasts just a few seconds, unless I'm involved in an argument with someone, or perhaps working on a trying art project or a particularly difficult bit of writing -- then I let the moment linger, perhaps for inspiration, or for the calming sensation it offers, or just so I don't have to go back to arguing or work for just a moment more.

What does all this look like physically, from someone else's point of view? Pretty much nothing at all -- I rarely even stand still during an RRC pause anymore, and only my wife really notices when I'm in the middle of one. So all I "do" is hold mentally still for a moment, eyes open or closed, standing, walking, lying down, or sitting, and just wonder.

I know it doesn't sound like much to describe but you know what? In the end an RRC shouldn't be much...that may be its whole point!


P.S. Keep in mind that this is only how I do an RRC... it does not need to be the way you do it. All that really matters is asking the questions, remembering your self, and wondering about it all...

Alright I think I've pretty much got it down, I especially liked the "this is not a state test for the power of self; it is a state test for the presence of self". I need to remember that. The only thing I think I'm having problems with is how my presence affects other people and how they affect me, i'll need to work on that one.

Thanks for taking your time to elaborate! Much appreciated.

Originally Posted by RareCola

Alright I think I've pretty much got it down, I especially liked the "this is not a state test for the power of self; it is a state test for the presence of self". I need to remember that. The only thing I think I'm having problems with is how my presence affects other people and how they affect me, i'll need to work on that one.

Thanks for taking your time to elaborate! Much appreciated.

That's great, and happy to help!

And for all of you: rest assured that I'm doing this for a reason, and it'll all be clear later. Thanks for keeping up the effort!