Thread: Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

@Ctharlhie I haven't read "A Buddhist perspective on lucid dreaming" yet (I will) but those two videos must be put above the forum. The guy talks about spot on topics. I will definetely watch all of his videos, but I can watch those two everytime before sleeping. The issue itself gets you some awareness. Thank you.

I feel much the same way about those videos, they're extremely enlightening and after all the trap of placing all your faith in technique is part of what this thread tries to deconstruct, it's one I see a lot of people fall into.
Now that I think about it, the way he WILDs is very similar to how you WILD, you should definitely watch the video called 'falling asleep lucidly'

Exactly I've just finished watching it. He is a man of explanation covering everything we already know and don't think about. Anyways, I'm going to bed, my dream machine (It is 01.12 am)
This thread and the videos acted like an information boost for me. I won't surprise if I come here shouting "I've 6 lucid, 7 non-lucid, 3 wild" tomorrow lol Kidding ) Good night...

Edit: The guy has just thought me why I lose consciousness in dreams and wake up.
Key: Merging with the dream.

Ctharlhie:

Thanks for your post, and your concern! I'm familiar with most of the stuff you listed, but I do appreciate your reminding me of it. I'll be sure to check out as much as I can.

I especially like your take on The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep, and tend to agree with your opinion of its tone -- that it was basically "follow these instructions to the letter and find a buddhist lama to teach you or don't bother reading on" -- though I think I understand why Rinpoche used that tack, especially when talking about sleep yoga. Funny thing, though, I've never considered it a meditation book...

On the same note, I've never considered Maya a form of meditation. Isn't it more a metaphysical philosophy, or rather a mystical way of being? You don't have to answer that, of course; I'll just follow your link! I'm not sure my idea of meditation really fits with Maya, either. Perhaps my idea of meditation is wrong?

But some approaches to meditation do genuinely cultivate awareness of self and that awareness can easily be applied to testing the nature of reality.

True. But in a dream are you really testing the nature of reality, or the nature of your dream? This is an important difference, I think. And yes, as I think I said in an earlier post, I feel that the mechanisms meditation uses for testing that very nature of reality may inadvertently misdirect your sense of self away from its (the self's) significance in the dream.

Also, I've experimented with Vipassanā meditation and you know what? (You're going to love this) I've found that advanced lucid dreaming potentially yields very similar results to Vipassanā without the need for the discipline and vast amount of time needed to perfect your skills in this technique. Of course, it might take a while to reach that level of LD'ing, too.

I'm rambling again. At any rate, everything you said is true, and certainly relevant to inducing LD's. Tim Post's videos are definitely informative -- I especially like his disinterest in the "significance" of techniques. But again, these examples are a all about inducing lucid dreams; I was talking about where you go after you're in the dream, self-awareness strong and memory intact. There is where my slight mistrust of meditation comes into play, and, despite your excellent efforts, I really must continue to hold to what I said and discount meditation as not "fundamental" to LD'ing. I'm stubborn that way. If I read what you posted and find myself in the wrong, I'll be sure to sing out here. But in the meantime, I hope you'll forgive my tenacity, or, perhaps, pity my self-induced ignorance...

Thanks for the effort, though, and for all the helpful information!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Think about it. A dream is not reality, but your dreaming mind's projection of reality, based entirely on you. To appreciate this projection in the same way that is done with meditation is to elevate it to something beyond you, which, I believe, would indeed diminish your self awareness in the dream. As I said somewhere above, with meditation skills in play you might find yourself making the dream -- and not your presence -- the real thing, and thus lose lucidity. And again (again), this only pertains to higher-level LD's; meditation probably does no harm, and might help initiate and stabilize lower-level LD's.

This finally made me understand what your concern about meditation is. And it makes sense, in a way.
Then I was about to make a post about how there must be other ways to meditate that would strengthen your awareness of the world being like a dream itself and so on.
But then I realised that there was a whole page 5 that I hadn't read where Ctharlhie talked about exactly that, and now - thank you Ctharlhie - I have four open tabs with walls of text that I need to (and want to ) read before coming back to this discussion.

See you later

Originally Posted by Strit

This finally made me understand what your concern about meditation is. And it makes sense, in a way.
Then I was about to make a post about how there must be other ways to meditate that would strengthen your awareness of the world being like a dream itself and so on.
But then I realised that there was a whole page 5 that I hadn't read where Ctharlhie talked about exactly that, and now - thank you Ctharlhie - I have four open tabs with walls of text that I need to (and want to ) read before coming back to this discussion.

See you later

Yay! I'm happy some of that tangled mess that is my thought process was useful to you

@ Sageous, Maya isn't a form of meditation, but I'm proposing to use it as an object for meditation. Where some approaches to meditation say to use breath, or a mental construct, or some sacred image to meditate on, I intend to meditate on the maya of everyday existence, dreams and waking life, thereby achieving greater self awareness and awareness of dreams. I'm not claiming that meditation is a fundamental of lucid dreaming (there are many master lucid dreamers who have never meditated in their lives) but as a path to that fundamental, awareness. Also I would say that to me testing the nature of self and reality and testing the nature of dream amount to the same thing.
But in the end I'm more than willing to stand by my opinion and also accept yours

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Where some approaches to meditation say to use breath, or a mental construct, or some sacred image to meditate on, I intend to meditate on the maya of everyday existence, dreams and waking life, thereby achieving greater self awareness and awareness of dreams.

My understanding is that you begin meditation with the focus on breath, a sacred image, or whatnot as a means of training the mind to focus. After you are able to accomplish this without the interruption of the internal monologue (or other tricks your mind may play on you), then you turn the focus you had previously put on breath towards maya, the nature of reality, or contemplating pure consciousness.

Ctharlhie: I just couldn't read all that text. I guess I have to get a bit more into meditation before being so theoretical about it. So no more reading and a lot more practice!

Sageous: I felt like we took over your thread with all this talk about mediation. Sorry. So here's another question for you to get back on track:

So when I stand there, lucid in my dream, and I've remembered that I have a sleeping body somewhere and that all this is a creation of my own mind, then what do you propose I do? Can I do something to make my ability to get lucid higher from within the dream? Like auto-suggestion or practising awareness or what not. Or is it better to just enjoy and jump around (or whatever I feel like doing) because it'll make me love my lucids better?
What, if anything, have you done during all these years - while you were lucid dreaming - to become better at getting lucid. And do you think it worked?

Originally Posted by Strit

Sageous: I felt like we took over your thread with all this talk about mediation. Sorry. So here's another question for you to get back on track:

So when I stand there, lucid in my dream, and I've remembered that I have a sleeping body somewhere and that all this is a creation of my own mind, then what do you propose I do? Can I do something to make my ability to get lucid higher from within the dream? Like auto-suggestion or practicing awareness or what not. Or is it better to just enjoy and jump around (or whatever I feel like doing) because it'll make me love my lucids better?
What, if anything, have you done during all these years - while you were lucid dreaming - to become better at getting lucid. And do you think it worked?

What I propose is that you pause for a moment, maybe do a state test, and really consider what you want to do in this dream, now that your wits are mostly along for the ride. Think of remembering your sleeping body as a door cracking slightly open, one that you must now push open further with your own imagination -- you can even do this literally, and plan on being either in complete surprise or complete control over what's on the door's other side.

If you've reached this point, you likely have a real sense of what you want to do -- and I suggest doing that. If your "jumping around" goes well, you'll likely find your lucidity strengthened. If you try to do something that someone else suggests, because they're sure it's effective, you'll likely lose some lucidity because you put some of your consciousness eggs into someone else's basket. You're at a point, here, where the entire universe is yours to create, explore, or walk away from; what you do is up to you, sourced in you, and echoed by your creations. Trying to increase awareness with someone else's techniques (or any techniques, for that matter) will not end well. Trust yourself, know your Self, above all have fun, and lucidity will only improve.

What have I done, over all these years? Based on the last paragraph, I shouldn't share, but suffice it to say I've tried pretty much everything discussed on this site, but only had real success when I simply stopped giving a crap about techniques and cleverly-termed actions like auto-suggestion, and simply chose to be aware of this moment, and took care to not worry about the next one. Lucidity by definition is a very personal thing, and to attempt to improve it by attaching someone else's "techniques" is to invite failure.

So have fun, literally be yourself, and revel in the fact that you are both self-aware and can remember who you are, what you are, and what your expectations were twenty minutes ago. If you have those things, then all the tools are in place to build your own lucidity -- don't listen to me.

Q: Your WILD technique, since you don't really feel vibrations from SP, I was wondering if you could tell me the technique you use to wait for your body to fall asleep and went you start to visualise and build the dream.

Originally Posted by Sageous

-- don't listen to me.

That might be the most difficult advise you've given so far.

Originally Posted by xxdanxx

Q: Your WILD technique, since you don't really feel vibrations from SP, I was wondering if you could tell me the technique you use to wait for your body to fall asleep and went you start to visualize and build the dream.

My WILD technique is pretty much the standard practice here: After spending a few minutes setting intention, I lay on my back, do a relaxation exercise (I think they call it the 60 points) and then keep perfectly still. During the long wait for sleep I try to keep my mind clear by silently repeating a mantra (currently it's "Remember," what a shock, huh?) and thinking of nothing else. When sleep comes I ignore distractions like SP -- and yes, I rarely feel those vibrations so popular here, but I'd ignore them as well -- and focus on assembling a dream. This is important, because it's a real bitch to go through all that WILD crap only to find yourself stuck in your bedroom.

Dream assembly is usually based on my set intentions -- assuming my memory joined me in the dream -- and can be a lot of fun because it opens some real doors to creativity. If your intentions were firmly set, visualization is a snap because your dreaming mind was caught a bit off guard by the WILD and will grab whatever it can, recent memory being within easiest reach (hence the common theme of bedroom scenes in WILDs); so if your recent memory is a clear intention -- aka visualization -- then you should be able to cobble together whatever you were hoping for, or something close to it. It can take a bit of effort and patience, as you might need to "fill things in," or perhaps the world your Dreaming Mind created barely resembles what you wanted and more needs to be done, but that can be fun work in itself (plus it helps stabilize your lucidity). On days that I don't feel creative, I simply head straight for a door, or perhaps the ceiling, and leave the room before it becomes fully formed as my bedroom or some other uncreative local site. Usually the act of leaving takes time enough to get your Dreaming Mind's gears turning, so be careful that you don't get overwhelmed by what's on the other side of the door and lose lucidity.

That's about it; sorry if it's not much different than the rest of the folks here!

This is so useful, I'd never thought about setting an intent to WILD before the attempt, which is dumb seeing as the way I DILD is all about intent *facepalm*

Another great post, Sageous, this thread continues to be a fantastic source of inspiration and practical information

Great thread. I've had two lucid dreams now which were lacking in control but I've been happy with the effort and time's results. I might have a question later on but for now I've just learnt some great things! Thanks.

Happy to help, guys, and thanks for reading!

And thank you for posting and being around!

I haven't checked this thread in a while, but now I will delightful catch up with the new pages ^^

Q: You talked earlier about being a hard journey to gain discipline in order to achieve a high state of awareness. What would you say it's this discipline? Do you "forced" yourself to it, or did you simply took it for granted while pursuing specific goals, rather than hoping for lucids? I know the way that some one achieves their goals is rather personal and unique, but could you give us some insight ?

Q: Mental blocks. As dreams are somewhat a bridge between the unconscious and the conscious self, we may not always be aware of a particular racionalization regarding our dreams. Why we dream with this, why we can't do that. This seems to take especially importance regardings techniques: many people have their first lucids without having a clue, and then when they get "informed" seems the lucids are harder to come by. This subject is also very present in certain degrees of dream control (eg "I could never do that!" "my control is always low"). What would you say it's the cause for these mental blocks? Can we really overcome them by rationalizing, or is not that simple? For last, dream control: product of intention or understanding ?

Ah, you always ask questions that make me think, zoth00; thank you.

That said, let me see if I actually have answers for them...

Originally Posted by zoth00

I haven't checked this thread in a while, but now I will delightful catch up with the new pages ^^

Q: You talked earlier about being a hard journey to gain discipline in order to achieve a high state of awareness. What would you say it's this discipline? Do you "forced" yourself to it, or did you simply took it for granted while pursuing specific goals, rather than hoping for lucids? I know the way that some one achieves their goals is rather personal and unique, but could you give us some insight ?

When I used it, I wondered if the word "discipline" might have been too harsh a choice, due to the negativity attached to it. But real awareness does indeed come from discipline -- from intentionally and repeatedly channeling your mind toward places it is not used to going. I would say that the discipline is uniquely simple: build your self-awareness by constantly exercising it. And yes, I did force it upon myself, in the name of stronger LD's. Sadly, I suppose, self-awareness must be forced; it is not a natural event (not yet, anyway; I have a feeling that the next step in evolution will be one of awareness, and not physicality -- but that is for another time). Now, if you're looking for a specific discipline, I can't help you. This is for three reasons -- first, I must have tried two dozen different disciplines over the years, all of them valid, and some reasonably effective, but there is no space to go into them all here (I also don't want to). Second, the form of the discipline must be changed regularly, so that you don't fall into a habit. As soon as you get "used to" doing something, no matter how helpful or impressive it was at the outset, it loses all its power, awareness-wise. The mind exercises you do must always feel fresh, especially if you're using them with stronger LD'ing as a goal. LD's are driven by novelty, not by routine. Third, since it is a very personal thing, the discipline I practice may be completely useless to you; you really need to set up your own regime -- it is best not to use someone else's design in this department. I hope that made sense, because it's very important -- if it didn't, and you care, let me know.

Q: Mental blocks. As dreams are somewhat a bridge between the unconscious and the conscious self, we may not always be aware of a particular rationalization regarding our dreams. Why we dream with this, why we can't do that. This seems to take especially importance regarding techniques: many people have their first lucids without having a clue, and then when they get "informed" seems the lucids are harder to come by. This subject is also very present in certain degrees of dream control (eg "I could never do that!" "my control is always low"). What would you say it's the cause for these mental blocks? Can we really overcome them by rationalizing, or is not that simple?

First, a quick note about that first, accidental, LD: Think of it in terms of a person being introduced to the game of darts, and on his very first throw gets a bulls-eye. That doesn't mean he is proficient at darts, it simply means that that is where one of his darts randomly landed. He might spend many hours practicing before he ever gets close to another bulls-eye, on purpose. In other words, that first LD has nothing to do with the skill of LD'ing, save that it gives a person a brief glimpse at the potential of the state. So, It might take years of practice and preparation to get to the second LD, but it's not from a mental block.

Now to what you were actually asking: rationalization, or lending reason to your dreams, can do more harm than good. That doesn't make it a bad thing, just a dangerous tool. This is because the last thing you want to be doing when establishing lucidity (or preparing for it) is adding intellectual explanation to your actions or experience. So yes indeed, if you get caught up in techniques, and all the rules or expected conditions that accompany them, you might effectively "block" your awareness from simple communion with your dreaming mind (aka: unconscious). As you already noted, rationalization is also a problem because you do not want to find yourself in a dream saying something like, "I can't do this." Ever. If you think nothing at all during a dream, and have strong self-awareness & memory, you will simply be able to do anything you want, period -- you do not have to think about it, or call up some defined technique, because that will only complicate the situation by the attachment of alien decisions and rules. When this happens, your dreaming mind tends to respond with lost lucidity. Oddly, that replacement might be a non-lucid dream that you are lucid, according to all the rules, so you might not notice the change until you wake up.

So yes, mental blocks can definitely be caused when you fill your head with techniques, complex (or overstated) expectations, or someone else's description of what the LD should be like. And yes, we can overcome them with rationalization, but it would be better if that weren't necessary. Make sense? I hope so!

For last, dream control: product of intention or understanding?

Yes.

You need both, with understanding being the priority. Your mind, your self, needs to simply "know" it has the ability to do anything in a dream, and there is where all that discipline comes into play. Once you have the right mindset, though, you need focus, and that focus comes from intention. It is best to form that intention before sleep, but you can gather it during a dream as well, especially if the dream scenario is unexpected -- this can be hazardous to lucidity as well, though, because your intention during a dream can be enveloped in the dream itself, and you start doing things as defined by the dream, or the DC "you," rather than things defined by your waking-life self. Here again it is helpful to have strong self-awareness so that you can notice things going astray and take a pause to allow your awareness to step away from the dream to gather strength.

I hope these answers made sense; let me know if they did not....

Originally Posted by Sageous

When this happens, your dreaming mind tends to respond with lost lucidity. Oddly, that replacement might be a non-lucid dream that you are lucid, according to all the rules, so you might not notice the change until you wake up.

I've seen this eluded to in other posts before, and have always wondered about it. I can't quite wrap my brain around it. Can you elaborate on what this means?

^^ I call them False Lucid Dreams, though I'm assuming I didn't make up the term.

In a nutshell, a FLD is a non-lucid dream about being lucid, but with a total absence of self-awareness. This is likely a fairly controversial term here at DV, so I don't expect you to buy into the idea. I have a feeling, though, that they occur a lot more often than people think (I've been LD'ing for well over 30 years (gasp) and I still get them often. Here's how they happen:

We all want to LD very much, and spend a lot of time thinking about them, talking about them, and hoping for them. Mix that with waking-life activities like RC's, setting intent, conscious expectation, and induction techniques, and you wind up with an unconscious mind filled with day residue about LD'ing, expectation, plus some possible neural hard-wiring for LD'ing.

Now let's say you've got all that in your head, but you manage to go sleep without bringing any self-awareness along for the ride. Well, the fact that you're lacking awareness might not stop your dreaming mind from fulfilling all your wishes and providing you with a dream that fits all the proper parameters for an LD -- except that it's just a dream. That's right, you're having a dream about LD'ing.

With practice, it's not that hard to recognize that you're having one. There are some basic memory tests you can use to confirm that what happened was just a dream, like if the memory is behaving more like a non-lucid than a LD (ie, it's fading fast), or perhaps you remember a severe lack of control or way too many surprises. For more details, you might check out my thread, "A Treatise on Proof" for more details (and some interesting posts from those who think I'm wrong about this).

Bottom line: when you have a FLD, you are dreaming you are lucid, but really are not. I suppose they can be convincing enough that it doesn't matter when it happens, but I'm pretty sure they happen frequently.

Let me know if that was clear enough...

Originally Posted by Sageous

We all want to LD very much, and spend a lot of time thinking about them, talking about them, and hoping for them. Mix that with waking-life activities like RC's, setting intent, conscious expectation, and induction techniques, and you wind up with an unconscious mind filled with day residue about LD'ing, expectation, plus some possible neural hard-wiring for LD'ing.

^I absolutely agree with this. We almost incubate 'plots of lucidity' in our dreams in much the same way as we may dream of a film or video game.


Now, on a somewhat related note, this discussion of false lucidity has reminded me of a quite remarkable dream I had while I was dozing this morning. It wasn't remarkable in terms of content (at least not in the remarkableness that sees you visit alien planets) but because it was quite simply the most vivid and tangible non-lucid dream I've had in my life. On a basic level I was conscious, I was making informed decisions based on the world around me. The scene of the dream was a perfect representation of its waking life and unmarred by the usual problems of dream scenes and plots, the visual incongruities and non-sequitors of character and plot. It utterly felt like an episode of my waking life. I won't recount the dream in full as it was very personal but I was basically unloading all my feelings about my recent breakup onto a friend who was the perfect listener and very sympathetic and is a very nice person in waking life.
Jung believed that dreams often played a individuating function, bringing disparate elements of the psyche into greater wholeness, that's how I felt when I awoke, I felt mentally revitalised.
Perhaps my perfect recall was because it was my last dream of the night and I woke from REM right at the end of the dream. But I wonder whether in some non-lucid dreams so much of consciousness is present in the dream that we remember it like it was a lucid, maybe that's how non-oneironauts sometimes remember dreams in the morning when they usually have poor recall.

What are your thoughts on presence of mind in non-lucid dreams?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

What are your thoughts on presence of mind in non-lucid dreams?

Interesting segue, Ctharlhie; makes sense to me on a couple of levels. Now:

This is an area of confusion for many dreamers, so I'm glad you brought it up. First, I must mention consciousness. Consciousness is always present in dreams, regardless of lucidity. It must be, or else we would be unable to experience, much less even briefly remember, what happens in a dream. Indeed, nothing would happen in a dream if consciousness were not present, if that makes sense.

Consciousness is simply the state of being aware of your surroundings, your feelings, , etc., and all of that is certainly present in a dream. So your consciousness must be present in a dream, because you are certainly aware of your surroundings and your feelings during a dream -- some dreams more so than others (as you noted above), but always some consciousness is present.

And, by extension, so is your mind. It must be there as well, since it's your mind that's creating the dream in the first place. Plus, someone has to be there to enjoy the show your mind is creating. Presence of mind is, ironically, what makes the dream "real" to the dreamer. "You" must be there in order to experience what is going on around you, react to it, be scared by it, or have meaningful conversations with it. Like that tree in the forest, if you're not there to experience all that, then it didn't happen.

Also, your mind can be razor sharp in a non-lucid dream. I've always had trouble with people who say their mind is "addled," or they don't have their wits about them in a dream. That is not true; your mind can be just as sharp in a dream as it is in waking life -- and of course just as dull in a dream as it is in waking life.

LD'ing is not about mind or consciousness, in the broad sense of the terms. It's about waking-life self-awareness and memory. Those are the two things that you fail to bring with you on non-lucid trips to dreamland. So it's not your "addled" mind that makes absurd dreams seem real; it's the fact that you cannot remember that your neighbor really can't have a pet T-Rex, or that tea on the moon without pressure suits is a no-no. With memory switched off, everything is happening here and now, period -- even your "memories," when you have them, are invented by your dreaming mind and would be necessarily suspect if your actual memory were present. What can switch that memory on is self-awareness, which is also absent in a non-lucid dream. With self-awareness, you are able to say "hey, this is a dream," and realize that all around you is of your own construction. Once you know that, your waking mind/consciousness is present, and you have opportunity to switch on memory and upgrade your lucidity dramatically.

And, to belabor the point, keep in mind that all living things have some level of consciousness, and many living things other than humans have dreams, as anyone with a dog, cat ferret, etc, knows. Their minds are present in dreams as well; they have to be.

I'm talking too much; I think you got my point, which is that your mind is working just fine in a dream, consciousness-wise. What is not present is your self-awareness and memory. I'll stop now, before I repeat myself an eleventh time!

Wow sageous that last post of yours was amazing. I never thought it like that. That gives me a whole new perspective on my lucids. On most of them, I would know that I was in a dream, but I still would kind of "acept" that weird stuff happened without really questioning them. Now I understand I very rarely advanced to the point where I can perceive things as being a projection or a creation of my mind. And that paragraph about the memory being turned off, I finally "understood" it. I think there's a big difference about knowing and understanding something, and I think this was the case.

So it's not really our brain that tricks us, it's the lack of memory that induces us in not noticing it's a dream. Due that lack of memory, we can still have acess to our analysis capacity, but we can no longer make assumptions based on personal experiences, thus we're like childs, watching the world (in a way) for the first time?
Also, what dictates the separation between the 2 concepts: I don't remember that dinosaurs don't exist, but I remember gravity does (and sometimes the opposite). Is this a matter of mental schemas vs active memory? To me, it seems that the more powerful a mental scheme is, the more chances it seems to be present in a dream.

Take this examples: gravity, the correct image of very close people, the order of the sky/ground, your movement around the universe (the way you move from A to B). These are all very common scenarios in dreams (I'd guess), but why? Is it a mere process of the brain to keep things to maximum incoherent in order to prevent you from becoming lucid?

"They have a tendency to remain unchanged, even in the face of contradictory information. We are inclined to place people who do not fit our schema in a "special" or "different" category, rather than to consider the possibility that our schema may be faulty. As a result of schemata, we might act in such a way that actually causes our expectations to come true."
This definition about mental schemes is also very interesting. It reminds me that time where we see the hours in a watch completely different and we think "maybe it's just broken".

The ideas in this post may seem a bit confuse, but it's because I can't write at the same time I develop my thinking about this particular subject

Originally Posted by zoth00

So it's not really our brain that tricks us, it's the lack of memory that induces us in not noticing it's a dream. Due that lack of memory, we can still have access to our analysis capacity, but we can no longer make assumptions based on personal experiences, thus we're like child's, watching the world (in a way) for the first time?

I wouldn't use that analogy myself, because your "adult," accumulated wisdom is still present in consciousness, even if you cannot remember where you were ten minutes ago. So you're really not watching the world for the first time with each dream; you simply cannot access any short term memory (and some long-term memory) to attach real-world sense to your situation in a dream. That said, I would agree that a child's view of the world is similar to a dreamer's view of the dream world in that a child has no reference for "explaining things away," or rationalizing nonsense moments. Adult dreamers have a reference available in their wisdom and long-term memories, but that reference is often ignored because those dinosaurs chatting with your long-dead parents at the corner cafe is such a powerful image and, for lack of contradictory memory, is a "real" thing that is both happening now and seems to have been going on for some time. That, BTW, is why it's so important to do RC's and question the "odd" during waking life. Not sure if that made sense, but I'll leave it.

Also, what dictates the separation between the 2 concepts: I don't remember that dinosaurs don't exist, but I remember gravity does (and sometimes the opposite). Is this a matter of mental schemas vs active memory? To me, it seems that the more powerful a mental scheme is, the more chances it seems to be present in a dream.

Take this examples: gravity, the correct image of very close people, the order of the sky/ground, your movement around the universe (the way you move from A to B). These are all very common scenarios in dreams (I'd guess), but why? Is it a mere process of the brain to keep things to maximum incoherent in order to prevent you from becoming lucid?

I think I answered this above, but here's another thought: Yes, the schema created by your dreaming mind is, during the dream, the base for all laws of physics, logic, etc, so you will tend to accept whatever it offers as "real" in a dream. Also, keep in mind that organized schemata are common, but their content is not: one person might have no gravity ever in dreams, and is fine with it, another might need to walk everywhere, even if walking from London to New York, while still another believes that the entire universe ends at their bedroom door. It all makes sense to each dreamer, again, because it is the schema provided, and there is no applicable reference to shout out, "Hey, dummy, the world wasn't like this an hour ago when you fell asleep!"

No, I do not think that incoherent schemata in dreams is meant to prevent LD'ing. I personally believe that LD's are a side effect of sentience, and nature never saw them coming, but that's irrelevant here. What is relevant is that your dreaming mind is simply doing its level best to assemble the piles of day residue, nagging problems, fantasies, desires, etc, that lay about your psyche into a world that makes some sense to your consciousness when it comes into play during REM. Lucidity is the ability to use your waking awareness and memory to realize that these things you're experiencing are just so many piles of unrelated mental debris; your unconscious is not working against you -- not purposely, anyway!

"They have a tendency to remain unchanged, even in the face of contradictory information. We are inclined to place people who do not fit our schema in a "special" or "different" category, rather than to consider the possibility that our schema may be faulty. As a result of schemata, we might act in such a way that actually causes our expectations to come true."
This definition about mental schemes is also very interesting. It reminds me that time where we see the hours in a watch completely different and we think "maybe it's just broken".

I believe I agree with this quote, but I have a small problem with it in that it fails to actually explain why they have a "tendency to remain unchanged," only that they do so, and this is what leads people to believe their minds are addled during dreams, rather than simply disinterested in a waking-life order of things due to a failure to remember that order. Also, if you're not lucid, I believe that fulfilling expectations is the occupation of your dreaming mind, and not your conscious decisions; but I have a feeling I could be wrong about that. BTW, I also think your take on the quote is spot on.

Speaking of addled, I've looked over what I just wrote and don't like it much at all. If you don't like it either, let me know and I'll try again.