Thread: Breaking illusions:Sleep paralysis [WILD help (method)]

Yes, I really love this website. I would say that we have a similar challenge to overcome with this experience of being drawn back to body. For me, I find that this type of thing ebbs and flows in cycles. Hopefully each cycle brings me deeper into trance and closer to LDing. So, if I find myself being drawn back to body, I realize such a feeling will pass as going into trance is cyclical. If I internalize this, it helps to calm and reassure me, which then helps the next cycle to be deeper.

As for the visuals not being a clear or vivid as I would like, that has happened to me off and on. I am not sure really what is the defining component(s) of great visuals. I have noticed that not LDing in a while usually makes my visuals more intense. Also, imagery exercises helps. But ultimately I still really am not sure.

I far as stabalizing a dream, I try to use my dream senses to really expand, intensify, and clarify the dream. Maybe it is the difference between touching and feeling, hearing and listening, seeing and looking at, really breathing in and experiencing my dream, letting my consciousness really experience the dream feeling it in my core.

Hope this helps.

The craziest part, is before actual images appear, I get the craziest HI. I go into spirals and things pop out, like an ITunes visualizer, and by this time my eyes are twitching twice per second, Then I always see eyes glowing in blue then a face outline appears. Its hard to get through that part, and when I do, I always end up in a dream, realize it and wake up. I'm either riding in a car with my buddy's, doing my favorite sport, or playing video games with my friends .

So I'm thinking that the next time I have crazy HI its time to visualize and I will pop into a dream knowingly and not be surprised and wake up when I do.

I'm just that close, and this happens every night. It's impossible for me to WILD in the morning, I'm just too awake, even after 4 hours of sleep.

Adraw, I was just wondering exactly how important the visulizations are? I've been doing pretty much the same things that you have concluded here when I attempt to WILD, I also found that remembering tactile stuff helps me to distance myself from my body. All this is good and all but I haven't made any greater progress, I also know that I suck at visulizations. So my actual question is if this "scene" or "film" that I am to produce in my head needs clear imagery in order to build a dreamscene? And if so how do I improve me visulization skills?

Originally Posted by ollei

Adraw, I was just wondering exactly how important the visulizations are? I've been doing pretty much the same things that you have concluded here when I attempt to WILD, I also found that remembering tactile stuff helps me to distance myself from my body. All this is good and all but I haven't made any greater progress, I also know that I suck at visulizations. So my actual question is if this "scene" or "film" that I am to produce in my head needs clear imagery in order to build a dreamscene? And if so how do I improve me visulization skills?

Well thats a question .... . First of all. This topic should all be about the tactile stuff you mentioned. And about the visualizations? Well I guess we would need help in this. My latest observations signalize, that visualization is important on the beginning only, becouse later on it takes enormous anmount of energy. But to be honest. I cannot tell you exactly. Maybe SomethingElse could. He is far more experienced.

For me, I cannot reach further level, becouse i do my exercises at the evening. And this is probably the reason why my visualizations are not vivid and therefore hard to mantain. Whats your story? Whats your visualization process?

Originally Posted by adraw

Well thats a question .... . First of all. This topic should all be about the tactile stuff you mentioned. And about the visualizations? Well I guess we would need help in this. My latest observations signalize, that visualization is important on the beginning only, becouse later on it takes enormous anmount of energy. But to be honest. I cannot tell you exactly. Maybe SomethingElse could. He is far more experienced.

For me, I cannot reach further level, becouse i do my exercises at the evening. And this is probably the reason why my visualizations are not vivid and therefore hard to mantain. Whats your story? Whats your visualization process?

Well I haven't had much progress with visualizations either. But I feel that tactile sensations have often helped me visualize. That's why I was interested in this thread to begin with. I've gotten the impression that visualizations are very important to achieve WILD. Using some kind of tactile memory have helped me build up a dream scene. I've experienced some kind of synergistic effect, The tactile sensations enables me to visualize as I get an overall "feel" of the scene.

But being a crappy visualizer and all I was thinking that maybe the tactile sensations would do the jobs just as good as any visualization would. I've had several non lucid dreams in which I don't have any sense of sight, everything is black, but my tactile sensations are at an all time high.

The real question I guess is: can you build a dream scene out of tactile sensations only? Would this be enough?

Adraw I understand if you don't have the answers to my questions, maybe we just have to find out for ourself

Originally Posted by ollei

Well I haven't had much progress with visualizations either. But I feel that tactile sensations have often helped me visualize. That's why I was interested in this thread to begin with. I've gotten the impression that visualizations are very important to achieve WILD. Using some kind of tactile memory have helped me build up a dream scene. I've experienced some kind of synergistic effect, The tactile sensations enables me to visualize as I get an overall "feel" of the scene.

But being a crappy visualizer and all I was thinking that maybe the tactile sensations would do the jobs just as good as any visualization would. I've had several non lucid dreams in which I don't have any sense of sight, everything is black, but my tactile sensations are at an all time high.

The real question I guess is: can you build a dream scene out of tactile sensations only? Would this be enough?

Adraw I understand if you don't have the answers to my questions, maybe we just have to find out for ourself

For more information, please read this topic if you havent already done that:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=61681

Shady gave hers own tricks and arby made a good point. Even if it is hard to understand, it shows, how visualization really works.
Let me take a quick summary from what i understood from this topic:

• It seems that stimulating one sense is not enough to create lifelike visualization
• It seems that movement adds life to visualizations

yeah there is much more information hidden within, but maybe this might open new horizonts also for you.

You sayd, you are creappy visualizer. Tell me about it. But as i am progressing further, it doesnt seem that the visualization process itself is crappy. But our ability to concentrate is not as good developed and needs practice.

I oft find myself within visualization, and deep within falling asleep, where i am conscious but am not able to change any aspect of what i percieve. I try to change the scene... it doesnt work. Sometimes i try to speak... it doesnt work. Then i blend with the dream and fall asleep. And the same goes with visualization itself. It seems my own wilpower is not clear enough to force the brain doing what i wish.

may i ask you a question? What happens, when you are starting to blend with the "scene" which you create. Arent you starting to lose yourself?

Thanx for responses.

Originally Posted by ollei

But being a crappy visualizer and all I was thinking that maybe the tactile sensations would do the jobs just as good as any visualization would. I've had several non lucid dreams in which I don't have any sense of sight, everything is black, but my tactile sensations are at an all time high.

The real question I guess is: can you build a dream scene out of tactile sensations only? Would this be enough?

Adraw I understand if you don't have the answers to my questions, maybe we just have to find out for ourself

I have become lucid from only tactile sensations. On more than one occasion I have literally walked my way from darkness into a vivid dream scene.

In fact some of my early WILDS were without any kind of visuals. Back then I was doing a lot of tactile imagination exercises and not a lot of visualizations as I wasn't as good at visualizations. (One person earlier in this thread mentioned using memories as a means to aid in tactile imagination exercises. I for one believe this is a useful technique as so much of what a person imaginations is really just a construction based off of past events in life. So working out a routine of touching things right before attempting to become lucid and then recalling those sensations and imagining them again while they are still fresh in one's mind is a useful exercise. I believe this helps to build a more stabilized dream body.)

A problem with sightless lucid dreams though is that they leave a person doubting whether it was a real lucid dream, especially for a person who isn't as experienced enough.

Originally Posted by a1112

The craziest part, is before actual images appear, I get the craziest HI. I go into spirals and things pop out, like an ITunes visualizer, and by this time my eyes are twitching twice per second, Then I always see eyes glowing in blue then a face outline appears. Its hard to get through that part, and when I do, I always end up in a dream, realize it and wake up. I'm either riding in a car with my buddy's, doing my favorite sport, or playing video games with my friends .

So I'm thinking that the next time I have crazy HI its time to visualize and I will pop into a dream knowingly and not be surprised and wake up when I do.

I'm just that close, and this happens every night. It's impossible for me to WILD in the morning, I'm just too awake, even after 4 hours of sleep.

Interesting. I am totally different. But maybe not as much different as you. Main difference would be, that your HI is wery vivid. Mine is really black and white without much detail. That is dissapointing sometimes, but i am working on this too.

Yeah I found myself really awake too nearly each night. SImple the wish to have wild ended my attempt making me physically tired, but i couldnt fall asleep. The only way out of this is what i suggested above. To construct internal world. Becouse that gives not much time to think about anything else. Maybe it could help you to focus.

Still there is one last barrier. And that is concentration. Now i understand what more experienced WILDers told to be most difficult part {not to fall asleep}. Even when i am constructing some imagery. Even when i am focusing, I fall asleep.

Originally Posted by Something Else

Yes, I really love this website. I would say that we have a similar challenge to overcome with this experience of being drawn back to body. For me, I find that this type of thing ebbs and flows in cycles. Hopefully each cycle brings me deeper into trance and closer to LDing. So, if I find myself being drawn back to body, I realize such a feeling will pass as going into trance is cyclical. If I internalize this, it helps to calm and reassure me, which then helps the next cycle to be deeper.

As for the visuals not being a clear or vivid as I would like, that has happened to me off and on. I am not sure really what is the defining component(s) of great visuals. I have noticed that not LDing in a while usually makes my visuals more intense. Also, imagery exercises helps. But ultimately I still really am not sure.

I far as stabalizing a dream, I try to use my dream senses to really expand, intensify, and clarify the dream. Maybe it is the difference between touching and feeling, hearing and listening, seeing and looking at, really breathing in and experiencing my dream, letting my consciousness really experience the dream feeling it in my core.

Hope this helps.

Thats fine. Cyclical trance. That reasures me, I am not doing as much wrong. So maybe you could help me with another think which is probably connected with fact I am doing my exercises at the evening.

And that would be: SOmetimes, when I want to construct internal world, it somehow does not work. As if i couldnt do anything mental. My mind stops to respond to my wishes and simply doesnt do anything. Do you have such experience? Is it part of the cyclic process you mentioned, or is it just becouse i feel so tired?

Thx in forward.

It is important to have your mind rested enough so that you won't fall asleep, but still relaxed enough that you can enter a dream. An odd paradox. For me, this is best achieved in the morning after having had most of a good nights rest but still a little tired so I can sleep more. This is why WBTB is so good for me. My mind is calm, controllable, and charged. It is ready to make a dreamscape and slip inside.

Originally Posted by adraw

And that would be: SOmetimes, when I want to construct internal world, it somehow does not work. As if i couldnt do anything mental. My mind stops to respond to my wishes and simply doesnt do anything. Do you have such experience? Is it part of the cyclic process you mentioned, or is it just becouse i feel so tired?

Thx in forward.

Originally Posted by Something Else

It is important to have your mind rested enough so that you won't fall asleep, but still relaxed enough that you can enter a dream. An odd paradox. For me, this is best achieved in the morning after having had most of a good nights rest but still a little tired so I can sleep more. This is why WBTB is so good for me. My mind is calm, controllable, and charged. It is ready to make a dreamscape and slip inside.

The word controllable should help me to get further. I guess. Till i cannot perform WBTBs, i will continue with evening exercises, even if it means I wont be successfull with WILDs, to better my self control. But i am starting to sense, that i am nearing the borders of my current method, becouse progressing further would bring me more new experiences from which I could learn.

Thanx for your advices SomethingElse. Thanx everyone. Any suggestions? Any experiences with visualization aiding you with body "problems"?.ň

The more experience I get myself the more this forum helps!

All of the posts on this thread have given me a bit more insight. I can't add much yet, but keep posting this is very helpful

I've never seen much HI and I've never actively attempted to Wild, it just happens where I'm trying to Mild (and only when I'm extremely tired, to the point where I'll fall back asleep in 5-10 seconds) and eventually I'll hear that static tell-tale noise in my ear that means its game time.

I haven't made any efforts in dream recall or LD'ing since about january so I rarely remembered any dreams in the past few months, but I actively started up again 3 days ago and day 1 produced a failed Wild (hit SP), day 2 an LD and day 3 another failed Wild(SP again).

The first one happened during a nap, mid-day I had woken up and you know the feeling where you can barely keep your eyes open cause your so tired your literally about to fall back asleep? When I get that feeling I can wild more than 75% of the time. I tell myself I'm going to have a lucid dream about twice and before I can say it a third time I generally hear that buzzing/static sound in my ear. Reading what Something else mentioned about the trance being cyclical I guess I now realize or believe that because the statics sound came in and then went away about 3 times each time growing longer till I finally entered my dream/SP.

Why I've failed to become lucid with those 2 failed Wild's i can't say, I used to become lucid 99% of the time when I hit SP but since I've come back again it seems my dream logic takes over and wont let me realize that SP is there. I just simply can't move =\ It sucks too because I can literally recall every single action from the moment I told myself I was going to LD, till SP, through the dream and to the moment I woke up recalling every second.

I've only been trying again for 3 days and patience is hard when it comes to stuff like this but hopefully I can figure it out in the next week or so.

Originally Posted by Sniper991122

I've never seen much HI and I've never actively attempted to Wild, it just happens where I'm trying to Mild (and only when I'm extremely tired, to the point where I'll fall back asleep in 5-10 seconds) and eventually I'll hear that static tell-tale noise in my ear that means its game time.

I haven't made any efforts in dream recall or LD'ing since about january so I rarely remembered any dreams in the past few months, but I actively started up again 3 days ago and day 1 produced a failed Wild (hit SP), day 2 an LD and day 3 another failed Wild(SP again).

The first one happened during a nap, mid-day I had woken up and you know the feeling where you can barely keep your eyes open cause your so tired your literally about to fall back asleep? When I get that feeling I can wild more than 75% of the time. I tell myself I'm going to have a lucid dream about twice and before I can say it a third time I generally hear that buzzing/static sound in my ear. Reading what Something else mentioned about the trance being cyclical I guess I now realize or believe that because the statics sound came in and then went away about 3 times each time growing longer till I finally entered my dream/SP.

Why I've failed to become lucid with those 2 failed Wild's i can't say, I used to become lucid 99% of the time when I hit SP but since I've come back again it seems my dream logic takes over and wont let me realize that SP is there. I just simply can't move =\ It sucks too because I can literally recall every single action from the moment I told myself I was going to LD, till SP, through the dream and to the moment I woke up recalling every second.

I've only been trying again for 3 days and patience is hard when it comes to stuff like this but hopefully I can figure it out in the next week or so.

There is pretty a lot of information inbued in your experience. What I like most is, that we are starting to connect our experiences together. Something Else always helps, when it is most needed and it is always passion to share information with him. And as everyone adds his own experience, this topic starts to make sense even more.

I would have one question for your. What about the buzzing sound. Do you hear this kind of sound everytime? And one more question. Do you work with music? Are you composer, or DJ, or audiophile?

Thanx in advance Sniper

Originally Posted by Brainstorm

The more experience I get myself the more this forum helps!

All of the posts on this thread have given me a bit more insight. I can't add much yet, but keep posting this is very helpful

Tell me about it. At first. Everything I readed here helped me just a little. But now, as I read the same text again, the same tutorials once more, i find it even more interesting and helpfull. It needs time to develop enough skills to understand whats written in this forums. Till i dont understand, I ask many questions, and sometimes even more

I really like your guide, Adraw. I like the focus on Memory and Inertia.

I think many people have a hard time creating complex and involving visualizations. Instead of trying to invent a visualization, why not just use a memory? Before bed, rehearse your imaginary scene. Spend a minute touching your desk (your example), or whatever you decide to do. Then, when you are lying in bed half asleep, you only need to remember your experience from earlier in the night.

Inertia is a good way to describe how to let go of the waking world, and let the dream take over. You nudge your mind in the right direction, and then let it take over. You can't force it. Just give it a push, and let it roll downhill into a dream. If it slows down, give it another little push.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I really like your guide, Adraw. I like the focus on Memory and Inertia.

I think many people have a hard time creating complex and involving visualizations. Instead of trying to invent a visualization, why not just use a memory? Before bed, rehearse your imaginary scene. Spend a minute touching your desk (your example), or whatever you decide to do. Then, when you are lying in bed half asleep, you only need to remember your experience from earlier in the night.

Inertia is a good way to describe how to let go of the waking world, and let the dream take over. You nudge your mind in the right direction, and then let it take over. You can't force it. Just give it a push, and let it roll downhill into a dream. If it slows down, give it another little push.

Thanx. Visualization is superb tool and the inertia always helps with it. Still sometimes it is pretty delicate to find the sweet spot between concentration and letting it go its own way. There is one moment which causes problems. And that is, the more i let go, the less i am concentrated and the easier i fall asleep without consciousness present. But the more i try to be active within visualization the less vivid everything seems. It takes practice to develop right skills, but even when the visualization is not vivid, just the process of it helps to forget about the body, which is exactly what i am aiming at now.

Do you have any experiences with this? Have you tried something like that? If so, what is your success rate?

Thanx for now.