stuck at hypnagogic state

[sreed628]

I've been trying wild for a few days now. Typically I find a dark quiet spot and practice breathing meditation. I'm very quick to get to a hypnagogic state, but I can't seem to get through that. Last night I thought I was about to....the waves turned into what appeared to be thick jungle vegetation without colour. My breathing sped up and I could feel my eyes going crazy under the eyelids, but I just snapped out of it. Am I doing something wrong? Am I on the right track? All feedback is appreciated.

[gab]

Are you trying this without any prior sleep? If yes, you should WILD after at least 4.5 hrs of sleep. Combine WILD with WBTB. In order to have a LD, you need to fall asleep into REM, or to be very close to REM. And when you first go to sleep at night, you have to go through about 80 min of NREM, before you hit the first REM.

[sreed628]

Thanks for that. I actually did that last night. I went to sleep around 11:15 and set my alarm for 3:30 this morning. I got up and used the facilities without turning any lights on and came back to bed. I tried to use iso tunes, but I simply cannot fall asleep with earphones in. I eventually took them off and feel asleep to the sound of my fan. I had two of the most vivid dreams I've had in a long time, but I don't know if you can call them lucid. In neither dream did I realize I was dreaming. When I woke up this morning, at first I was upset thinking I hadn't dreamt at all, but then the memories came rushing back....on both of them. I made sure to record them in my journal. I'm not sure but I don't think those are considered actual lucid dreams because I was never aware not did I have any control whatsoever.

[gab]

As you concentrate more on lucid dreaming and dreams in general, you may find that your dreams, or at least some of them, will be very vivid and detailed. But yes, if you are in doubt, then it most like was not lucid. Lucid dream will have a different feel from a regular dream. It will feel like you are inside of 3D environment. Often people say something like "wow, i'm dreaming" and that realization can be quite exciting. Next time, try to stay up little longer. Put some lights on, write down your dreams, read something about LDing, like a book or re-read a tutorial, or some inspiring dream from DV's dream journal. Wake up your mind, but not too much, so it doesn't think it's time to get up. Stay up only until you think clearly, but still sleepy enough to fall asleep. To keep your mind from falling asleep too fast, repeat a mantra. You can read more in Dreamviews recommended WILD and in sageous's WILD

[sreed628]

Awesome....Iwill try that tonight! I normally fall asleep with the tv on and it auto shuts off after a bit...should I turn it back on and start just like I normally fall asleep? I read that anchors like that can help.

[gab]

If you are used to tv, then I guess you could keep it on. But try without it too, since flickering light can be distracting.

[MasterMind]

sreed628 I don't know what kind of meditation you use. But if you use transcendental meditation you should know that the meditation itself isn't the tool that get you to the hypnagogic state, but rather the tool that get you transitioned. Think about this for a second. - When you read a good book or watch a good movie are you more aware of the text on the paper than the experience you create in your head or for the movie example, are you you more aware of the surroundings like the room you sit in or even the screen, or are you more aware of the movie itself? This might be a weird example, but it's a good way to show that, where your focus of awareness is, is what you experience and what is your reality. Einsten asked the question of: "Is the moon really there when no one is looking?" - and according to quantum physics NO it's not. Quantum Physics: Double Slit Experiment & Consciousness - YouTube Anyway what I am trying to explain is that where your focus of awareness is, is where your reality is, it's where your experience will be. So when you are in the hypnagogic state and notice your eyes flickering you are focusing on the physical world and the physical body, so where will you then end up? In the physical of course. However in this state it is easier to focus on the non-physical dreamworld than while wide awake so you should here just try to switch focus. Also remember though that sometimes you expect to be in your physical bedroom, manages to transition, but never notice it because you are in a false awakening. Or rather a false WILD practise, the most dangerous trap for all WILDers. Which is why you should switch focus away from the physical and you are basically manually doing the process of transitioning. For example, yesterday I went to bed late after playing a MOB game with some friends. My head was hurting and my body was exhausted. I went to bed and started to think about random stuff because I just wanted to go to sleep, but then I noticed that when I thought about the voice of someone I knew like my dad or a friend, I could visualize and almost hear it. It was on the line of just being a thought and being my reality. I fell asleep unconsciously but woke up later in the morning and tried the same thing. I didn't focused on my bodily sensations because that is in theory contra-productive which you understand by now. And in a blink, my reality was in my focus of awareness, which was my non-physical visualization. You are always in your focus of awareness. Which is why you are always in control! However I understand the dilemma of wanting to find signposts of progress in your WILDing and therefor you want to focus on the physical body. I have been in the same boat for 2 years. Although now I realize that you can't analyze your experience and practise while you are doing it, it's more of an afterthought. Which is the meaning of Yoda's - Do there is no try! So all you need to do when WILDing is to focus on where you want and non-physical daydreaming/ visualization is the first step. And when you totally leave the focus of awareness of physical reality, in other words forget about your physical body and physical bedroom, that is when you will transition instantly. Think about what happens in an ordinary WILD transition: A person might see something non-physical like a vivid visual or a vivid sound, and then he zones in on it, and are there. What I am trying to say is that you don't need to wait for a vivid thing to focus on, you can just visualize yourself, eventually it feels vivid and is easier to focus on. And then you can leave this world turn 180* to the non-physical. It takes a little practise of course, but what I have explained is the answer to end the confusion about transition and bodily sensations. I hope you find this information helpful and I wish you good luck wih your WILD practise. People, Can U Hear Me ? Here's a message that I'm sending out. I've got the answer to all your problems and tonight I'll be singing it loud. Just surrender yourself to the rhythm, with your Hands up in the sky. Feel the energy deep inside your system and leave this world behind! Leave the world behind you ...

[sreed628]

So I just posted a long reply, but the stupid site ruined out on me. Long version short, I'm very confused by the concept of focusing on something(even visualization) and being able to fall asleep. I just toss and turn until I eventually pass out....I dream vividly with great recall but never realize it until I've already woken up. I did wbtb at 4:00 this morning and laid back down ten minutes later....was still awake in bed over an hour later. I see the hypnagigic swirls and try to visualize the beach and the breeze and the sand between my toes, but that's as far as it ever gets. At this point I feel anxiety when I go to sleep because I'm trying to stay positive, and desperately want the subconscious to take over, but I just can't seem to let it take me away. Any advice on this?

[MasterMind]

It's a difficult concept to understand because it is so outside of your reality and current belief or experience. Just like you can't understand lucid dreaming without experiencing it, you can't understand the concept of focusing. I tried to relate to the physics and western minded thinking side of the theory, however it was not until I experienced it myself I could understand what it ment. I will tell you exactly how it is and well if you believe me or not doesn't matter, you are not supposed to believe something that you haven't experienced yourself. So try to just take this theory into account and consider the possibility of it and use it in your practise. Because I promise you that it saves you alot of trial and error. I know this simply because I have gone through the trial and error. First of all a quick summary of what it means. What your consciousness is focusing on is what is your reality, I guess that you are right now not in let's say the capital Stockholm in Sweden or an even better example because I know it to be true, you are not aware of who I am. And what the quantum physics is telling us is that right now neither me or Stockholm exists in your reality. Think about reality itself, it's just information interpreted by your brain. Like the Matrix scene with Morpheus: The Matrix - What is Real extended clip - YouTube So what is dreaming then? Well it's an experience of yourself, of the information that you as a conscious being already have. We have these experiences to learn about ourselves and understand our current experience as a human being. But back to the focus concept, WHERE you FOCUS is where you ARE. If you focus on the physical body, you will stay in the physical focus. But if you focus on a visualization which is something non-physical and allow yourself to forget the physical, or rather turn your focus away from the physical, well then you will not be in the physical anymore. Your consciousness which is what you are, will be in the non-physical. An example of how it can feel like: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/mast...ss-tips-47800/ But just to make it easy! Forget the theory it's just there because I like to talk about it, and it might inspire someone. All you need to do is this. Visualize something and totally surrender to it. My problem with this used to be that I fell asleep or that nothing happened after hours of waiting. I solved this by using a Mental Primer or rundown which is basically a planned out visualization. I am going to share it in my DJ tomorrow if you are interested. And a few times of using this I have totally zoned out and for a few seconds just felt myself being in that reality and it felt like dreaming. So the concept of focus theory is that you don't need any special state of mind, not even sleep or hypnagogic imagery, bodily sensations or anything NOT EVEN relaxation, all you need is to direct your focus. However all those factors just makes it easier to direct and switch the focus. The confusion is made when people make the association of these factors being NECESSARY for transitioning. But I hope you see now why there shouldn't be any signposts to look for when you WILD. All you need is to switch focus. The mental primer was my solution, there are many other ways and the mental primer is only a preparation to enter a state where it is easier to change focus. Get the idea of right timing OUT OF YOUR HEAD. I do this in the freaking day after lunch or as I go to sleep in the night when there is no possible way to still be in REM or a "right state of mind" or pre-sleep and well this is why I love Monroe's Focus theory, because there is no limitations and I don't need to worry about timing as I used to do in the beginning. But this doesn't mean that you need to do this in the day, all you need to do is to take focus theory into account and practise it in the night when it is naturally easier to direct your focus. This post can atleast erase a few problems for you though. Now you don't need to think about REM, sleep, right amount of sty up time for the WBTB, right amount of sleep before the WBTB, swallowing while WILDing, moving while WILDing. Ok.. I hope that this clearify the idea, but if you want to learn more. Here is a good link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...w0/edit?pli=1# And well I have kind of explained all this before, maybe I did it more incomprehensible maybe I did not, but here is another post about this: http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post2029862 Have fun!