Why won't the dream suck me in?!

[Hypertrophy]

So I've been practising WILDs lately, I wake up after about 5-6 hours of sleep, chill for about 15 minutes then I relax my body and lay down on my back ( I usually lay on my side but laying on my back feels unnatural and makes it practically impossible for me to drift off in a non-lucid dream ) then I focus on my breathing, I try to visualize the numbers but I lose count a lot :p each time that happens I start over again and after about 20 minutes these relaxing vibrations start to numb my body. I love the feeling of SP kicking in! after a while my whole body feels really heavy. when my body is in sleep paralysis my eyes start twitching slightly and really random thoughts pop up in my head but I observe them from a passive aware state. after this nothing ever seems to happen! I could lay like this for hours untill I wake up and I was wondering if anyone has had this before because it feels like I'm close but I never get past this phase! Any advice greatly appreciated !

[MrOMGWTF]

Did you get any hypnagogic imagery/hallucinations?

[gab]

... I try to visualize the numbers but I lose count a lot ...each time that happens I start over again Losing track of counting is not such a bad thing. Check out post #2 by sivason. after this nothing ever seems to happen! I could lay like this for hours untill I wake up and I was wondering if anyone has had this before because it feels like I'm close but I never get past this phase! Sometimes we just concentrate so hard on WILDing, that we forget to fall asleep. Especially when you say, you could last like that for hours. That tells me, you are not really falling asleep. There is a fine balance between falling asleep lucidly and just plain falling asleep, but in both cases, we need to fall asleep. You can read this article Sensations and types of entry into WILD to see if you get any of these sensations or images. They could help you determine where in the proces you are and even enter LD. Dream sucking you in is just one of the possible methods of entering LD. More often than not, I have to actively enter the dream.

[Hypertrophy]

Okay now I'm really frustrated, did 2 attempts this night! My whole body shuts off but I never get to the hypnagogic imagery/hallucinations, NEVER! I spent 4 hours on it this night! EDIT: I should note that: 1. I woke up naturally into 4.5hours of sleep the first attempt (I could remember a dream so it was during REM) 2. I kept myself awake for 20 minutes 3. I attempted the WILD on my BACK (which I usually can't fall asleep on but it keeps me aware though! I think by practise you can fall asleep in any position you want right? 4. I started off by counting while repeating the mantra: I will consciously be in a dream very soon 5. I note my body shutting down each limb (not completely paralysis but really numb, even my upper teeth were paralysed kinda like cocaine does (stay away from it kids) 6. I end up waiting for 2 hours, my thoughts start drifting off a lot but everytime I snap back into awareness

[Sensei]

I think that you need to stay awake less time. You are too awake. Try taking less WBTB time. Experimenting with different times will get you in the perfect state for wilding. I would also recommend paying less attention to your body. Experiment with different anchors in order to keep your mind just active enough to stay aware. But not enough to keep you awake. Concentrating on your body will keep you awake, because you need to lose track of your body in order to fall asleep. The entire idea of sleeping is losing track of your surroundings. This is why thinking of your bed will normally wake you up (doesn't work for me, but it does for most people). I like visualizing the dream and being there, because that will draw me into the dream as soon as it stops being imagination and starts being a real dream.

[gab]

My whole body shuts off but I never get to the hypnagogic imagery/hallucinations, NEVER! I spent 4 hours on it this night! As I mention it in the above linked article, HH images don't always happen. Sometimes you have different things. You pick which way to enter LD based on what you get. There are different methods of entering LD into images/dreams, when you have vibrations, when you feel as if you were flying, when you feel weightless, etc. 4 hours is way too long. Try to WILD as if you were going to sleep normally. Tell yourself you just wanna fall asleep. When you get sleepy and close to falling asleep, start with your mantra. Maybe don't count. That could be keeping you too aware, especially if you start all over when you lose track. (read sivason's post linked above). Don't pay that much attention to your body. You don't have to stay up for 20 min. Just long enough to think clearly, but still sleepy enough to fall asleep quickly. Do a few math problems in your head on your way to the bathroom, with lights on. Then go to sleep. Most of the people don't feel SP when WILDing. If you don't normally feel SP when falling asleep normally, you wont feel it during WILDing either. All those sensations and HH are a sign of your body falling asleep and your mind observing that proces. For WILD, purpose of a mantra is more of an anchor, to keep your mind aware while body falls asleep. It doesn't really have to convey a message, unlike for a DILD. So a short mantra like "I'm dreaming" will do the trick. If your thoughts drift off, that's fine too. If you not close to falling asleep yet when this happens, just gently return to your mantra. (or wait untill you closer to falling asleep before doing mantra). At one point, when images or other HH take over, you can stop saying mantra anyway, in order to fall asleep. I recommend you read WILD (sageous) tutorial. Good luck

[Hypertrophy]

I have actually read your and his tutorials completely through, thanks for the reply though, I'm searching for more specific info, from now on I have told myself that I will keep practising it every night until I succeed. I'm really stubborn and won't take a failure, can't help it :p

[OpheliaBlue]

First, thank you gab for posting that Sensations thread. It's a great one and demystifies alot about the main ways people enter a WILD. Mine is the vibrations one, I replied so you can see what I do, Control: Ophelia's WILD Way. Control, it is possible that lying on your back does indeed make you too awake. I'm usually on my side or my stomach. Which is more comfortable, but it quite possibly could make me fall back to sleep accidentally. So, what I do instead of using a physical body position to keep me more aware, I use my mind to incubate the dream I want to have. I don't always have THAT particular dream in the WILD, but it helps keep my mind more active so I can be lying in a more comfortable position. Mind over matter basically. Since I don't get sleep paralysis, I'm not sure at what point you would "open your dream eyes." But there's probably some inbetween point there, where you're feeling that paralysis start, but before you get stuck in SP for hours. Some sweet spot where you can actively imagine a dream scene, or slowly sit up in your bed, or open your eyes, perform an RC, etc. Important word: actively, as opposed to waiting for the dream to suck you in which is more passive. If I were to venture a guess, some point after you start feeling SP, you might actually already be in a dream state. I wonder what would happen if you went ahead and assumed you were already in an LD at that point and got up and performed a RC? I think it would be worth experimenting.

[TwoCrystalCups]

Seems like you are doing meditation instead of sleeping here.

[Hypertrophy]

Seems like you are doing meditation instead of sleeping here. Yeah you're right I guess o.o And thanks Ophelia, definatly checking that out, will post results later!

[Pzolo]

Feels like you're describing my situation exactly! Lol. I tried for like two hours and I had all the symptoms of WILD except the Lucid dream itself. It's very discouraging to say the least. :/

[gab]

It's very discouraging to say the least. :/ Think of it as another step that gets you closer to understanding the process and to your WILD. There will always be more 'lessons' than WILDs. So many things have to be just right for a WILD to grace us with it's presence Just pay attention to your attempts. Almost every time I get the craziest sensations, that are sometimes as fun or more as the LD itself. I know how it feels to be flying at warp speed just with my body, how it feels to be falling down a few stories through my bed, how it feels to be weightless, rolled into a small ball, have half of my body stuck in the wall... Embrace it, enjoy it, you will be rewarded.

[Superadam051]

I wake up after about 5-6 hours of sleep, chill for about 15 minutes then I relax my body and lay down on my back. I usually lay on my side but laying on my back feels unnatural then I focus on my breathing, I try to visualize the numbers but I lose count a lot :p each time that happens I start over again and after about 20 minutes these relaxing vibrations start to numb my body. I love the feeling of SP kicking in! after a while my whole body feels really heavy. when my body is in sleep paralysis my eyes start twitching slightly and really random thoughts pop up in my head but I observe them from a passive aware state. after this nothing ever seems to happen! I could lay like this for hours Sounds like you're in the same position as I am. I find the best thing to do is the read up on LDs and techniques. Practice makes perfect and more time means more practice and techniques down that you don't need to try again. As an overall I guess that you're paying too much attention to your body. Even now when gab said There is a fine balance between falling asleep lucidly and just plain falling asleep, but in both cases, we need to fall asleep. It's not something that I didn't know, it's just a tweak that adds to a certainty of information that I have. Another example is HH images don't always happen. I'm finding that I'm slowly progressing towards the goal and the other night I experienced (i guess) perhaps a second or so of HH (bright, multicoloured colours) which isn't much but it reassures me that I'm doing at least one thing right. It can be guess work at first you just need to readjust your 'path', which can take different durations depending on the methods you try and the frequency and luck you have.