WILD problem?Cant attain WILD after 50 minutes of staying still!

[Johnny3333]

Okay so this is the deal. I woke up after 6 hours of sleep and i remember the dream i just had a little so REM sleep is right there.I stayed for 20 min to awake fully and i did and i layed flat on my back,hands at my side and completely still.Leg ancles and crossed and not touching,so as hands. So i stayed still and i belive i had a few roll over signals like scratching or something like that,but at some point i just swallow. Let me clarify,i dont have the need to swallow at all,no saliva in my throat its like i have a automatic machine in my throat that just swallows when it wants to.I just swallow for no reason. Ive never had wilds,and after a while out of nowhere in 2 secounds like vibrations started shooking me,starting from my butt,spreading to spine and arms.ANd my eyes started twitching like maniacs, and it stopped.Is this beggining of SP?I didnt swallow right now but perhaps twitching eyes stopped the SP process. And i didnt stop there.I layed still for some more and i was close again,and BAM,again the throat machines swallows 2 times in a row.I just dont get it.I dont have the need to swallow.No need whats so ever,and my jaw is relaxed. I used tips from a video that is called How to stop the Swallowing Reflex(WILD) and his youtube username is GizEdwards (cant post link,7 day rule so) and he says that you need to relax your jaw to get in SP so i did,but to angle your head and put pullow at your jaw to keep it closed to stop swallowing need.And it works,i dont have the need to swallow,but at some point,BAM just out of nowhere.And i got bored after when i swallowed 2 times in a row and i got up and 50 minutes i was laying there.Completely still,didnt move a hair. Is this swallowing problem?How to stop swallowing like crazy(i swallowed like 3-4 times) and how to stop eyes twitching.

[MasterMind]

You don't transition into a dream by laying still for 50 minutes, you start the transition by switching your focus of your awareness for 1 second. I mean why is it the tibetan meditators that come up with the idea of dream yoga and lucid dreaming and not Stephen Hawkings or Christopher Reeve? (considering that they have a full body paralysation). Well the answer is that it's more in the mind than the body. The transition is all about where you direct your intention and awareness. If you have sleep paralsis as your goal, then you will direct your awareness to the physical body (in order to feel if it feels paralysed, however that might be done o. O) and well if you focus on the body, you will stay in the body! So how do you focus on a dream? Well there are two answers. One is to not focus on anything at all so you are not thinking anything or focus on your body at all, this is called point conscious awareness and then there is another way which is easier but also takes more time depending on how fast you can do it and that is relaxation. The more you relax the body and the mind the easier it is for you to switch focus from this physical world (physical reality) to the non-physical world (dream). It seems like you in this attempt was intending to relax the body, but you were stressed or occupied by thinknig of your swallowing and eye flickering and well this is because you are not relaxing your mind, and this will also make you focus on your body which in turn will make you not relaxing the body either! To prevent this you need to understand that when you no longer worry about swallowing or eye flickering, it will stop on it's own. One way to make you stop worry about this is to understand that it doesn't even matter if you swallow or flciekr your eyes, it only matters if you think it matters and get stressed about it. Your eyes flick and twitch like crazy when you are in REM and dream and you swallow as a reflex when you sleep as well so it's not really a problem. Also you are not percieving the dream world with your physical senses, you experience it with your awareness so focus on that instead of your physical senses. And let go of the idea of sleep paralysis, instead focus on your present awareness and almost welcome lucidity already in a sense, just be in the moment and don't analyze or judge yourself. This is the practise of meditation and as weird as it sounds, the more you do NOTHING the faster you will go torwards the transition. The key to WILDing is to sleep consciously, not staying awake consciously. You sleep consciously by observing your consciousness and not worrying or judging, you stay awake consciously by observing your body and worrying and judging. Relaxation is a tool to make the first alternative easier and more natural. I hope this helped you, but if it was unclear just ask again.

[Johnny3333]

Okay so i tried again and i got a scratchy face,i mean i layed in my bed after an afternoon nap and after 1 minut my face gets scratchy.Like half of my face.It gets stronger and stronger,and stronger and suddenly it get scratchy so hard that i start to think someone is going with a knife over my face.But i dont quit and my eyes start twitching and i belive LD is right there when it suddenly all stops and scratchiness stops for a 1-2 minutes and i stratches a little,untill this repeat itself.I belive im close and it stops.My face was like stratchy for like 25 minutes,and after 30 minutes i gave up.I didnt focus on my swallowing or eyes twitching. I didnt understand your reply,can you explain it a bit more in simple english to put it that way.

[dms111]

You're going about this all wrong, Johnny. The only difference between performing a WILD and falling asleep normally is when you perform a WILD you maintain your awareness a little bit longer than you normally would while falling asleep. It has practically nothing to do with what your physical body is doing. It's all mental. You can lay in whatever position you want. You can move if you feel like moving. Swallowing is fine. Again the only thing that really matters is that you are in the right state of mind. You want to be aware of yourself, but at the same time become less aware of your body. Before you know it you'll be able to stay aware and experience the brain triggering the onset of sleep. Then you'll realize that it's not about what you do or don't do. It's just about staying aware while your brain performs its ordinary functions.

[Johnny3333]

Wow,this is like WOW to me.I read somewhere that when you got to sleep normaly,your brain falls asleep and body gives roll over signals(itches,sensation of pain,need to move,adjust your head) and if mind is asleep he doesnt care and he doesnt respond to thoose signals.And when you WILD you have to impresionate your mind with that(being still,ignoring signals) and all to enter dream. How do you mean its all mental thing when doing this?How much do you guys need to enter LD when WILD-ing?I failed after 50 minutes.

[MasterMind]

Okay so i tried again and i got a scratchy face,i mean i layed in my bed after an afternoon nap and after 1 minut my face gets scratchy.Like half of my face.It gets stronger and stronger,and stronger and suddenly it get scratchy so hard that i start to think someone is going with a knife over my face.But i dont quit and my eyes start twitching and i belive LD is right there when it suddenly all stops and scratchiness stops for a 1-2 minutes and i stratches a little,untill this repeat itself.I belive im close and it stops.My face was like stratchy for like 25 minutes,and after 30 minutes i gave up.I didnt focus on my swallowing or eyes twitching. I didnt understand your reply,can you explain it a bit more in simple english to put it that way. Hmm ok I see, I noticed that it mgiht sound a little complicated, but luckily for you I wrote a post about WILDing some days ago where I used the example of learning how to ride a bike, in order to understand the process of WILD. I hope it's a little more substantial. http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/eyes-f...6/#post1966979 My point is to make you understand, just like dms11 said, that is more about what you do with your mind than your body, like most things. When you want to perform well on a soccer field you need to have a calm mind and not get stressed or nervous and you will automatically play better. It's the same for lucid dreaming, if you are nervous or sressed over something while doing the WILD attempt or as you go to sleep, it will be harder for you to attain your desired goal. That's what I ment by saying that it's more about doing nothing (thinknig nothing) than doing something and not judging and getting stressed out.

[Johnny3333]

I belive i got it.I just need to relax and let my mind day-dream a bit while doing WILD,and not focus on itching and all and to daydream a bit but not let theese thoughts take over me.Basicly not let myself fall asleep,but to be in between state.I belive i got it,Master Mind please respond so i can know im on right path.

[gab]

If you go to sleep normally, you may get an itch, scratch it and you may fall asleep within seconds of that. Why? Because the itch and scratch doesn't bother your. You know, that you will fall asleep no matter if you swallow, sratch, roll over, or anything else. You probably do those things, without even realizing that you do them. Because you don't care about them. You should approach your WILD attempt the same. Don't think about when will your body send you rollover signal. If you get the signal, you get the signal. You respond to it as if it didn't matter, because it doesn't. Of course, if you toss and turn, it will take you longer to fall asleep, but eventually you will. What I do, I trick my mind, that I'm just going to sleep normally and I'm not WILDing. I just start falling asleep, untill good and sleepy, not excited from WILDing, because I'm just going to sleep, right During this time, I'm just daydreaming by thinking about some cool older dream and pretty soon the dreams start to show by themselves. I may even start seeing really old dreams, that were long forgotten. That's a good sign, because you know your dreaming is now happening. To keep myself awake, I repeat some simple mantra. Then I just wait for a clue that I'm in a dream. I can either start seeing my room and realize that I'm already in a lucid dream, or I see a dream in front of me and I enter it by imagining myself there. Good luck. If you have not read WILD (sageous) tutorial, I recommend it.

[MasterMind]

It looks like you are. If you want an exercise to practise this art of doing nothing, read up about meditation The goal is to learn to do nothing, although when you first start out you will realize that you judge alot like thinking (this is boring... I can't mediate) or something like that. But with practise you will soon start to realize that you are in the state and perhaps even think "Oh I was in the nothingness! WOAH 50 min have already gone? oh rigt back to meditation." This mindset of not judging but just observing can be beneficial to more things in your life than just lucid dreaming as well. That's the paradox, you succeed by doing nothing, but to do nothing is more difficult than it sounds. ^-^ My point here is not that you should start meditating with all your power to succeed your WILD, unless you want to. But my pont is that you should let go of all kind of judgements, when you "fail" a lucid dreaming attempt, don't judge yourself and say "Ah I can't lucid dream, I can't WILD etc". Instead observe what happend and learn from the attempt instead. Also if you happen to judge yourself sometime, don't judge the fact that you judge yourself, as I actually started to do when I started out with meditation Just be in the moment and relax. And the same mindset goes for the WILDing attempt itself, if you need to swallow, don't get nervous or stressed or judge that, just swallow and continue to relax. If it feels like nothing is happening in the attempt, just continue it for as long as possible, don't think "Ah whatever this WILD attempt doesn't work out... Instead just continue to be in the moment and you are by then sleeping consciously. Good luck.