Thread: Do you realy need to wake up from rem?

You must wake up from a dream to be able to WILD, otherwise it won't be called a "wake" induced lucid dream. But just because you wake up from a dream, that doesn't mean your body is actually out of REM. Dreaming is something of a mental state, whereas REM is much more biological in nature, affecting your body as well as helping your mind to restore itself for the upcoming day. You can have a bunch of dreams in one REM cycle, depending on how long it is.

REM =/= Dreaming

I'm not sure I quite understand the rest of your post, maybe just from the way it's been phrased. However, people recommend waking up after 4-6 hours of sleep for a WILD because your REM cycles are indeed longer in the morning. This is because if you're searching for a period of time in which you're in REM, it will be easier to do so in the morning because you have much more REM in your sleep cycle at this time.

I hope that cleared some things up, don't hesitate to ask if you still have questions.

Hi, I also have a question. Does it matter whever you wake up during an REM period, or in between cycles?

Hey Shiny, Well REM stands for Restless eye movement, which is the period(s) where while we are asleep our eyes are moving around a lot, which indicates that we are dreaming during a REM period. So i would say for wake up in between cycles, but, when the cycles are closer together so that way you can get right back into having a dream? Im not quite sure if i explain that right someone correct me if im wrong or have it backwards! hope that helped!

What I meant was if you are asleep dreaming in the morning. Then the dream ends and you keep sleeping for another half an hour then wake up and do a Wbtb wild. Would that work?
Your still only half an hour away from rem.

Where did you read that you have to wake from a dream? You might have misunderstood, because that just isn't correct, plain and simple.

It is possible to WILD at absolutely any time of the day, it doesn't matter if you wake in the beginning, middle or end of a REM cycle, after a period of non-REM, or after being awake for a few hours. The only difference really is the amount of time it will take you to WILD. It is definitely much easier however to successfully WILD after a few hours of sleep because, as you noted, your REM cycles do indeed become longer and closer together the longer you sleep.

It's also a lot easier to WILD if you do wake in the beginning or middle of a REM cycle, because then you are likely to fall right back asleep into REM, which means you will most likely still be conscious. However it is not common for people to wake in the beginning or middle of a REM cycle without some kind of outside alarm. It's natural for people to wake at the end of a REM cycle, which is also the worst time to attempt a WILD, because your body is then ready for a period of non-REM. But even still, you can try to WILD when you're entering non-REM, because REM isn't the ONLY time you dream. It's scientifically accepted that we can also dream in non-REM, however nREM dreams tend to be much less immersive or enjoyable as REM dreams.

If we take your example, and we sleep for several hours and then wake up a half hour after our last REM...the only difference is that now your WILD attempt is going to take longer and be more difficult, because you'll need to wait and be very patient for awhile until your body is ready to enter REM again. It might even take an hour, where as, if you woke up in the middle of a dream, it's possible to shut your eyes and return to the dream world almost instantaneously. Clearly it's advantageous to wake mid-dream, but it certainly isn't a requirement.

Originally Posted by nina

Where did you read that you have to wake from a dream? You might have misunderstood, because that just isn't correct, plain and simple.

It is possible to WILD at absolutely any time of the day, it doesn't matter if you wake in the beginning, middle or end of a REM cycle, after a period of non-REM, or after being awake for a few hours. The only difference really is the amount of time it will take you to WILD. It is definitely much easier however to successfully WILD after a few hours of sleep because, as you noted, your REM cycles do indeed become longer and closer together the longer you sleep.

It's also a lot easier to WILD if you do wake in the beginning or middle of a REM cycle, because then you are likely to fall right back asleep into REM, which means you will most likely still be conscious. However it is not common for people to wake in the beginning or middle of a REM cycle without some kind of outside alarm. It's natural for people to wake at the end of a REM cycle, which is also the worst time to attempt a WILD, because your body is then ready for a period of non-REM. But even still, you can try to WILD when you're entering non-REM, because REM isn't the ONLY time you dream. It's scientifically accepted that we can also dream in non-REM, however nREM dreams tend to be much less immersive or enjoyable as REM dreams.

If we take your example, and we sleep for several hours and then wake up a half hour after our last REM...the only difference is that now your WILD attempt is going to take longer and be more difficult, because you'll need to wait and be very patient for awhile until your body is ready to enter REM again. It might even take an hour, where as, if you woke up in the middle of a dream, it's possible to shut your eyes and return to the dream world almost instantaneously. Clearly it's advantageous to wake mid-dream, but it certainly isn't a requirement.

Thankful that was very helpful.
Ive just got one more question, it might be a stupid one but I dunno.
I know rem gets closer in the morning. I'm not sure how close but let's say it's 40 minutes after a long sleep.
If you finish a dream then sleep for 20 more minutes (so your 20 minutes from rem) then wake up and do a Wbtb wild would it carry on from were it started. So you would have to stay consciously asleep for 20 minutes till a LD?

If you haven't seen this chart you might find it helpful. Keep in mind that these are just estimates/averages, and that the times of REM and non-REM are going to vary for everyone and depend on your own physiology as well as your lifestyle. The key is just to find what works for you through experimentation by waking up at different times. I prefer to WILD after only 3.5 hours, because then I feel like I have the rest of my sleep to spend lucid dreaming, which gives me at least an hour or so of LDs. Where as other people prefer to try WILDing after something more like 6 hours of sleep, since the REM cycles are longer and it is easier to get lucid. But really, I'd suggest to think less about the exact timing, because it's probably going to vary, so you can't really say...in 20 minutes you'll be in REM, because in theory that might be correct, but that doesn't mean it's definitely going to happen.