Thread: Want to participate in a new technique experiment?

This was a preliminary experiment. The full experiment is underway here



I'm working on a new technique and need some help. The technique was pioneered by the guy at saltcube, however I don't think he did it right and with some adjustments I believe that it could be used to induce lucid dreams almost regularly, even for those who are struggling to get their first.


The technique theory

The technique will work by closing in mind and body in on that transition stage between sleep and awake and allow you to stay at that point and get their easily. Allowing you to either wake up easily, or fall into a WILD easily.

If done correctly, I don't think there should be any sleep paralysis, which makes it a great technique for those freaked out by it.

By doing a rapid fire awake, sleeping, awake, sleeping, over and over again, the mind and body will get ever closer to that transition stage every time that you wake up, making your sleep lighter and you waking time groggier. After a few cycles, you should be able to slip directly from the waking state into a dream without sleep paralysis.

The waking and sleeping acts sort of like a regressive sine wave in math. In this graph, say that the zero line is the transition place between sleeping and being awake.

Here the first time you awake you come from deep sleep and wake up a lot, but the next time the difference is less, and it slowly moves in on hovering around that transition place, which makes it easy to go back and forth.

It kind of works like a DEILD, except your sleep is so light that there is no jerk and because you were just awake a few minutes ago, your memory of wanting to DEILD is very fresh.


Requirements

A timer: it has to be something that you can either program or be able to reset without moving too much (like a watch.)

or

a computer with Linux or Windows. I'll write a program that will do the appropriate things for you. It'll be a simple program.

or

an MP3 Player that you can either wake up and start, or can program to start playing automatically at a certain time (a computer )

A flexible sleep schedule or weekends off. You may loose a little bit of sleep with this technique unless you can sleep in.


Experiment

The timer will go off at your chosen time (whenever you are in REM, about 4:30am) When it goes off, wake up, then go back to sleep, daydreaming as you do. Because you woke up abruptly, you will go from being really asleep to really awake.

16 minutes later the alarm will wake you up again, but because your sleep was lighter, it wasn't such a jolt, so you wake up less. Daydream and go back to sleep. You can roll over or move this time, but not after this.

8 minutes later the alarm will go off again, since you were just woken up 16 minutes before, your sleep was lighter and the shock wasn't as bad, so you are woken up less. Daydream and go back to sleep, move as little as possible, try and keep your body relaxed.

6 minutes later it will go off again. Daydream and go back to sleep, don't move.

4 minutes later it will go off again. This is where you WILD. Your sleep should be so light now that there should be no shock at all and your body should stay right on the transition between awake and SP.

Now you WILD. You should already be in sleep paralysis and because your brain is close to being awake, a very vivid lucid dream should form quickly. You may have a false awakening, but you should easily get into a dream.


Let's have volunteers!

I want people who have had lots of lucid dreams, using various technique and especially people eager to have their first, because I think this will work perfectly to get them their first. Sign up, let me know who you are and what kind of experience you have and I'll write that program as soon as possible.


Feedback
Post your results here every day that you do it. Post whether or not you were able to fall asleep, any hypnogogic hallucinations, feelings the onset of sleep paralysis, if you became lucid before the final interval, and whether or not you managed to lucid dream.


Audio File
Audio File - (375 KB)
Audio File for those who have a hard time getting back to sleep - (246 KB)

Set it to go off when you think you will be in REM sleep. For Mac users I know that Alarm Clock 2 (on the apple site) is a great one that will let you play a file from your itunes library at any time.

For Windows users I know that there are alarms out there for you too, anyone know of any?



The zip file attached includes a program for Microsoft Windows (all versions) that all you need to do it run. It will start doing alarms at 4:30 and do them in the appropriate delay without you touching it. I haven't tested it however

I'd like to give this a try. The only time I will have a flexible schedule like this will be on weekends, and I can't promise every weekend. I am, however, VERY excited to start having more LDs, I had one 30 second one about two months ago, and I am ready for more.

I will need the program though, my watch and phone will keep the alarm going until the cows come home if I am not around to stop it.

Can this work in the afternoon?

Originally Posted by Licity

I'd like to give this a try. The only time I will have a flexible schedule like this will be on weekends, and I can't promise every weekend. I am, however, VERY excited to start having more LDs, I had one 30 second one about two months ago, and I am ready for more.

I will need the program though, my watch and phone will keep the alarm going until the cows come home if I am not around to stop it.

I'll write the program this weekend.

Originally Posted by mini0991

Can this work in the afternoon?

I doubt it, but you can try.

I'll try, keep me posted!

I'll try it over the weekend and tomorrow afternoon.

I also threw together a *very* simple QBASIC/FreeBasic program that will beep it at the indicated times. Since some BASIC dialects operate from the PC speaker, this may or may not be loud enough to wake you. My PC speaker's output gets rerouted through the speakers so I just turn 'em up and boom...shrill beep every minute. I start it up in a DOS box and just leave the speakers on all night...or when the time is set.

If anyone runs this in freebasic, you might have to adjust the SLEEP amounts to milliseconds.

Here it is:

CLS
PRINT "Timer set to go off at 4:30 AM. ESC to cancel."
DO
a$ = TIME$
b$ = INKEY$
if b$ = CHR$(27) THEN END
if a$ = "04:30:00" then EXIT DO
LOOP
'beeps!
SLEEP 960 '16 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 480 '8 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 360 '6 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 240 '4 min
PLAY "A2"
PRINT "Done."
END

Just posted it if it's a help to anyone else. If you know nothing about this, just wait until the good program comes out.

Yeah I could definatly do this. I am on Independant Studies and I am home everrday! I wake up when I want, which is usually around 10:00 a.m

So I would definatly volunteer for that one.

Oh and just to mention, I have only had I believe to be 2 lucids, both being somewhat controllable.

I threw together a quick timer in Visual C++ express 2008.

Spoiler for Code:

#include<fstream>
#include<windows.h>

using namespace std;


int main()
{
int timer1;
char beepvar = 7;
int timercounter = 10;

cout << "Please enter a number of minutes to wait before the first timer beep.\nThe timer will beep again 16 minutes after that, then 8 minutes later, then 6, then 4.\n\n";
cin >> timer1;

timer1 = timer1 * 60;

Sleep(timer1);

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(960);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(480);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(360);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(240);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

system("pause");

return 0;
}

I don't have access to a compiler at the moment, so it will require a basic knowledge of the language to debug, should any errors surface.

The beeping is made by outputting a character with a value of 7, an trick a friend showed my in Visual C++ 2003. May or may not work here.

I might give this a go, if I can get the program to my computer. It certainly sounds reasonable.

I think I can work with this. I have been having a very hard time WILDing lately. A fresh approach might be just what I need to get back in the saddle. I'll probably do the weekend shift.

I was wondering, would it be possible to make an mp3 version of the beeper or timer. It'd be easier for me to do this using my ipod because I don't have a timer that is easily resettable at the moment.

It does work and its called the rhythm napping technique. Are you trying to refine it?

I've got a lot of free time in the mornings, and I can't regularly induce lucids yet. I'll start working on this tonight, and edit my initial results in tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Videogamer 4 Life

how would you be able to use the alarm without waking the whole house up?

Clairity uses a vibrating watch. You could try and find one of them.

Originally Posted by weeedoodle

I'll give it a shot.

I'm a beginner, I've had about 4 DILDS and only 1 quality one.

I think I should be able to do this every night, but I may have to revert to just weekends. I'll post tonights results (hopefully) tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Chef

For the MP3 audio file part you can make a timer in your playlist by adding "music" with nothing in it, just silence, then have an alarm sound, silence added again for the ammount of time needed until next wake up.

Cant try the whole idea before next week as my working schedule is fucked upp. But sounds cool and i will most def come back to see how this experiement work and hopefully try it myself.

You could have a long blank audio file before it instead of using an alarm to start the file that I posted. Works the same way.

Originally Posted by BaKo

you really don't need a program for this. if you look at my thread where I show a theoretical method that I thought of, I give you the syntax for the AT command to make a sound play at any time you want. The linux alternative to the windows AT is cron for you linux users (if there are even any)

You can use any way that you've like.

Originally Posted by malac

It does work and its called the rhythm napping technique. Are you trying to refine it?

Yes, the saltcube guy's pattern seems counterproductive, and this will work better (I think) I even mention saltcube in the introductory post

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

I've got a lot of free time in the mornings, and I can't regularly induce lucids yet. I'll start working on this tonight, and edit my initial results in tomorrow.

Count me in!!! Do we start the sleeping and wkaing cycles when we wake up naturally, or at a specific time? If I don't do it at a specific time, then I will be waking up at 11-12:00 PM ish.

4:30 AM is probably in REM for most people, so I would recommend that time, however you may need to adjust it for yourself.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Clairity uses a vibrating watch. You could try and find one of them.

It's actually a vibrating "clock" not a watch. If you're married (or have to share quarters) and, if you can afford it..(and you think "vibrations" would wake you).. I highly recommend getting an "Invisible Clock".

This small clock can be set to vibrate or beep or both. There are three vibration levels and you can set up to 12 alarms! I often use the vibration setting on the highest level, wrap the small clock in a face towel and simply lay the clock so that it's pressed against my body. The vibration isn't "jarring" and another plus to a vibrating clock is that it doesn't disturb anyone else when it goes off (not even my husband who is laying right next to me)!

Below is one of the websites that sell the Invisible Clock: http://www.buddhasplace.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IC101&Catego ry_Code=Clocks

.

Originally Posted by Clairity

This small clock can be set to vibrate or beep or both. There are three vibration levels and you can set up to 12 alarms! I often use the vibration setting on the highest level, wrap the small clock in a face towel and simply lay the clock so that it's pressed against my body. The vibration isn't "jarring" and another plus to a vibrating clock is that it doesn't disturb anyone else when it goes off (not even my husband who is laying right next to me)!

Clairity... Do you just copy/paste that block of text every time the Invisible Clock shows up? It sounds really familiar...
Nice timesaver!

i tried to open the attachment. and my computer screen turned black... ?

This sounds great and I will definitely give this a try. I'm usually good about catching FA's. Tommorow, I'll post any results I have.

Also, a Linux program to do this would be nice. I would make one myself, except I'm brand new to ubuntu and still haven't figured out how to program anything on it.
EDIT: I found an EXCELLENT program for linux. It is better than Citrus !!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Offic...ck-31341.shtml

As for a windows alarm program, Citrus Alarm Clock is genius. It is simple, but has very controllable settings to get just what you need (most of the time). Too bad it doesn't work in wine :,(

Looks like you found a program, that's good. I wrote a program for Linux, but didn't compile it for it.

Yeah =]

I tried this technique last night and it didn't work...I couldn't fall back to sleep. I'm going to keep on trying and see how it goes.

Gah. I keep just falling back to sleep. I'm just TOO tired!!! :[

Is there any way to put the computer in some kind of stand by mode but still allow the audio to be played? I've never comfortable with leaving my computer on 24/7...

Yes, alarm clocks should be able to wake your computer up from standby mode.



This thread is locked
The official experiment will begin tomorrow and the thread for it is here.

Ok, I will be able to do it now... considering I'm done with CAT lol