Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Damn Alyzarin, you'r the doc of the thread
well i got my update:
btw i'm taking Temazepam (major insomniac) so who knows how it's affecting my sleep

5-8-13
Dose: Halls menthol drops (x4) = 21.6mg right before bed (no method as i passed out right away classes,work, etc...)
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: Right about 7 1/2 hours, woke up a few times each less than 2 min.
Cognitive: Overall everything was calm but my recall stayed the same
Sexual: In my main dream i was at the movie theater with a sex buddy of mine & we were getting it on
(I became near lucid when i figured out that she'll never do anything like that in public lol)
Atmosphere: Pretty general, everybody was enjoying themselves
Other Comments: I had a chain of FA (3) don't really remember them but just 2:
1.I was in the middle of a dream when i began to notice all my teeth were falling off & blood everywhere, when i found my self not giving a F i said to my self i'm dreaming then immediately i wake up twice in some random places before i really wake up...
2. when i finally wake up i'm in sleep paralysis i use it as my chance to try & become lucid but while doing this i find the boogieman from Gorillaz trying to pull apart my dream body? (i'm pretty desensitized from SP also) i become semi-lucid & end up in my childhood home in my bed still paralyzed with the boogie man still there.

Anyways this was the first time using menthol so hopefully i'll better experiences in a few more days!

Unexpected Development: A Connection Between Acetylcholine, Menthol, and St. John's Wort?

Here's something for you guys to mull over in the old noggins.

As I mentioned at the end of my last post, St. John's wort gets a lot of its diverse pharmacological effects from action of TRPC6, which is related to the receptors that capsaicin and menthol activate to cause sensations of hot and cold, respectively. I've known about this for some time now, but I had learned of it back before I was really that interested in this set of receptors, since before I started researching them for menthol purposes. Since the recent discussion here had St. John's wort on my mind again, I decided to look more into it and see if I could apply some of my newer knowledge to it.

So, you guys remember that enzyme phospholipase C which is involved in the biosynthesis of endocannabinoids and is activated by both kappa-opioid and muscarinic acetylcholine receptors? It was the basis for me theorizing that there could be a synergy between menthol and cholinergic supplements. Well, as I mentioned... somewhere not too ago in this thread... the way the enzyme works directly is by cleaving phosphatidylinositol 4,5-bisphosphate into inositol 1,4,5-trisphosphate and diacylglycerol. I've looked into some interesting stuff about inositol 1,4,5-trisphosphate before, but I never really knew all that much about diacylglycerol. Today I learned something just oh so nifty. In addition to some other related receptors, diacylglycerol activates TRPC6. So let me reiterate what exactly this means. Acetylcholine enhances imagination and hallucinations, which are a product of dopaminergic activity in the hippocampus. Up until now I didn't really have any ideas about how this worked, at least not directly. But the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors which are known to have these effects activate phospholipase C. Diacylglycerol is released as an end product, and potentially it should activate TRPC6 receptors which are present in the hippocampus. These receptors inhibit the reuptake of dopamine. Ergo, dopaminergic neurotransmission is increased and visualizations/hallucinations/dreams are enhanced. In addition to this, TRPC6 enhances the release of endocannabinoids as well and negatively modulates NMDA receptors, each of which could understandably add to the bizarreness of a dream and increase it's psychedelic-like qualities, while also making the environment more vivid and solid and accounting for the dramatic increase in hypnagogia.

Kappa-opioid receptors are known to lower dopamine levels in high doses, but obviously at the doses we're taking menthol and possibly due to its other mechanisms of action, this effect doesn't come into play. It would be obvious if it were too, because a dysphoric effect would be experienced. As a result, the activation of phospholipase C by menthol could theoretically lead to this exact same enhancement of dopaminergic neurotransmission seen with acetylcholine. This is all just a theory of course, but it seems very logical to me. The tie-in with St. John's wort also becomes very clear at this point. If phospholipase C activation is responsible for even just some of the dream-enhancing effects of menthol and cholinergic supplements, then St. John's wort would actually be working through this exact same pathway, just in a more direct way that's further downstream. Maybe that's part of how it can be such an interesting dream enhancer as well? It would also support the idea of a further synergy between these supplements.

The brain is so fascinating.

-----

Originally Posted by Highlander

Yeah that would be cool. No problem BTW.


Wed May 8th 2013

Dose: Menthodex cough drops (x5) = 74 mg (approx) taken during WBTB
Side Effects: Gripey stomach
Sleep Duration: Before = 5.75 – 6.5 hrs (WBTB 55 min) After = 3.5 hrs (approx) Total = 9.25 – 10 hrs
Cognitive: My overall recall seemed better? I experienced HI/a dream quite easily whilst resting, post WBTB.
Sexual: Yes, a bare-chested (Ex) GF in a bedroom scene.
Atmosphere: A general mixture of themes. A couple of famous people featured also. Nothing really emotional, etc.
Other Comments: The sexual type dream seems a recurrent one where I experience some ‘delay’ or ‘interruption’, or lack of privacy. It is not exclusive to Menthol usage.
There was a varied storyline to the (non-lucid) dreams in general where they seemed to blend together, although nothing really stood out as such.
Before taking the Menthol, pre-WBTB, It was a bit of a warm evening, inc. in bed initially which may have influenced my sleeping pattern.
I have had better results when taking a much lower dose of Menthol, especially when coupled with a low dose of Vitamin B6 (10 mg) which I often combine during WBTB.

T.O.T.P. The radio. CPR demo, etc - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Hooray, the new format! I think it looks good enough for now.

Since you mentioned it, and especially since we know about menthol and menthone directly stimulating dopamine release now, taking a lower dose and combining it with B6, which is used in dopamine biosynthesis, makes sense that it would provide better results. Keep in mind that there's probably a dosage curve where when the kappa-opioid receptor activity gets too strong the dopamine levels will probably start to drop back down, so now that we know more about it it's probably best to really start figuring out the perfect dose to go with!

Originally Posted by NyxCC

All right, my first menthol experiment got a bit scrambled. I planned to do a WBTB and then take the p.oil tablets, but I took melatonin pre bed and got lucid before the WBTB alarm then woke up. Took the peppermint oil nevertheless but had a hard time falling asleep. Anyways here is the report:

Date: 7th of May
Dose: 2x200mg peppermint oil tablets
Side Effects: mild heartburn
Sleep Duration: 7 hrs
Cognitive: I had some sense of urgency during the dream which incorporated in the scenario where we were looking for a space conference. Overall vivid, had some trouble navigating the flying machine.
Sexual: I did not feel sexual attraction to Justin Bieber! But maybe the alarm clock interfered before any menthol thoughts managed to kick in?
Atmosphere: Dynamic, transitioned to happy
Other Comments: Here is the entry from yesterday, dream3 is after taking the peppermint oil tablets.

Cheetah, flying DILD, Justin Bieber

Oh my, a menthol dream with Justin Bieber in it? It would have been interesting to see what happened if you did get the libido effect.

If you try again and you still have trouble sleeping, you may want to think about mixing it with another supplement like L-theanine to combat insomnia. It should help boost dopamine levels, too!

Originally Posted by PeterF

Damn Alyzarin, you'r the doc of the thread
well i got my update:
btw i'm taking Temazepam (major insomniac) so who knows how it's affecting my sleep

5-8-13
Dose: Halls menthol drops (x4) = 21.6mg right before bed (no method as i passed out right away classes,work, etc...)
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: Right about 7 1/2 hours, woke up a few times each less than 2 min.
Cognitive: Overall everything was calm but my recall stayed the same
Sexual: In my main dream i was at the movie theater with a sex buddy of mine & we were getting it on
(I became near lucid when i figured out that she'll never do anything like that in public lol)
Atmosphere: Pretty general, everybody was enjoying themselves
Other Comments: I had a chain of FA (3) don't really remember them but just 2:
1.I was in the middle of a dream when i began to notice all my teeth were falling off & blood everywhere, when i found my self not giving a F i said to my self i'm dreaming then immediately i wake up twice in some random places before i really wake up...
2. when i finally wake up i'm in sleep paralysis i use it as my chance to try & become lucid but while doing this i find the boogieman from Gorillaz trying to pull apart my dream body? (i'm pretty desensitized from SP also) i become semi-lucid & end up in my childhood home in my bed still paralyzed with the boogie man still there.

Anyways this was the first time using menthol so hopefully i'll better experiences in a few more days!

Hehe, well I have to look after my baby, I can't just start it and then drop the whole thing.

That sleep paralysis experience sounds awesome. It's a good first go, but I would definitely recommend going with a WBTB next time if you can. I got the menthol effects from taking it at bed myself, but WBTB really does seem to be the better way to go if that's your thing. Just a thought!

-----

Also, I don't think I said this formally, so welcome to the experiment, you two. I look forward to seeing more of your results!

I wanted to use something else apart from Menthol this morning, as I didn't want to use it two days on the trot. Hopefully I can use the Peppermint oil capsules with a shorter WBTB at the weekend, or next week provided I'm in a good mood with not much to do, etc.

However, I nearly missed the boat this morning by snoozing through my WBTB time. I took a natural WBTB nearly an hour later, scurried about in the Kitchen where it was a toss up between either a banana, B6, and the LAST Green Tea bag. (A case of "Snooze, Choose, or Lose?'")

Yes the Green Tea and the B6 tablet won. I had some interesting results post WBTB!
(Hopefully it's not a fluke - plus I might still have residual Menthol in my system from yesteday?)

P.S: I've still got that used teabag lying about, so I will re-steep it until I drain every bit of theanine out of it!

Unexpected Development: A Connection Between Acetylcholine, Menthol, and St. John's Wort?

That's a great post and opens up the field for some more experimentation. Great thing I have so many supplements around so that I can combine them without too much emphasis on a single one, so hopefully I can avoid desensitizing.

If you try again and you still have trouble sleeping, you may want to think about mixing it with another supplement like L-theanine to combat insomnia. It should help boost dopamine levels, too!

That's a great idea, I think my WBTB approach needs some refinement (in terms of behavior and timing) and sipping a cup of relaxing green tea may make an excellent addition!

Oh my, a menthol dream with Justin Bieber in it? It would have been interesting to see what happened if you did get the libido effect.

I think we will have plenty opportunity to read about libido dreams in the future. (I hope not too much though *shy*). But I have to admit I have rarely encountered cute and horny DCs. Remind me of this next time JB is around.

Also, I don't think I said this formally, so welcome to the experiment, you two. I look forward to seeing more of your results!

Thanks for the warm welcome Aly and others! I am also looking forward to experimenting and reading about your experiences as well. Dream on!

Originally Posted by NyxCC

That's a great idea, I think my WBTB approach needs some refinement (in terms of behavior and timing) and sipping a cup of relaxing green tea may make an excellent addition!

I'm not sure whether your green tea is decaf, but keep that in mind if you're trying to get back to sleep.

Speaking of caffeinated green tea, I sometimes use just a little caffeine (1-2 bags of regular green tea) in order to help make WILD come a little more readily. The idea is that a very, very small dose of caffeine suppresses deep sleep without making it too hard to go back to sleep or getting you too wired. Of course, that's walking a fine line! We play with this in Xanous' "Caffeine" research thread.

@Aly; keep up the good work I can't wait to start experimenting with the SJW/menthol combo after exams.

@Canis, any amount of caffeine at night seems plain wrong to me :S

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Aly; keep up the good work I can't wait to start experimenting with the SJW/menthol combo after exams.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this as well! Did I mention that I love this thread? I do. It's true, you know.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Canis, any amount of caffeine at night seems plain wrong to me :S

I know exactly what you mean. It does feel a little nuts to ingest caffeine at WBTB. The trick, it seems, is to keep dosages very, very low. In the 25-40 mg range, caffeine seems to help hold off deep sleep, hopefully without giving you raging insomnia.

It seems to mostly play a supporting role, and after Xanous started his research into caffeine, we learned that Yuschak had been looking at the same thing. Here's a paper where he was studying it: http://lucidconsciousness.com/wp-con...cid-Dreams.pdf (Edit: Although I should mention that Xanous went through a phase where he used caffeine as a primary trigger with some success.)

Sorry for the caffeine crossover into the menthol thread. I guess it's only appropriate since I'm planning on combining the two tonight.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I'm not sure whether your green tea is decaf, but keep that in mind if you're trying to get back to sleep.

Speaking of caffeinated green tea, I sometimes use just a little caffeine (1-2 bags of regular green tea) in order to help make WILD come a little more readily. The idea is that a very, very small dose of caffeine suppresses deep sleep without making it too hard to go back to sleep or getting you too wired. Of course, that's walking a fine line! We play with this in Xanous' "Caffeine" research thread.

Well, I guess I would be doing two experiments in one then! Two-in-one? What?

I find that starting up my internal dialogue is a bigger problem that the small amount of green tea during WBTB. I must conduct a number of trials to see how it goes.

Umm, just to make sure - here’s no requirement to do only menthol in this thread, right? Obviously for sake of valid results, I will try not to add too many things otherwise we won’t be able to ascertain what caused what.

I don't want to double post if its just the methol-tea combo, so feel free to reference my results if you find them useful.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Well, I guess I would be doing two experiments in one then! Two-in-one? What?

I find that starting up my internal dialogue is a bigger problem that the small amount of green tea during WBTB. I must conduct a number of trials to see how it goes.

Umm, just to make sure - here’s no requirement to do only menthol in this thread, right? Obviously for sake of valid results, I will try not to add too many things otherwise we won’t be able to ascertain what caused what.

I sure hope there's no requirement to only use menthol, because I very often combine. Menthol is an awesome support supp because it has huge effects on dream quality and length but doesn't (for me) make as much difference on lucidity. I wolfed down quite an assortment of aids the night of the "Weredog" dream. Here's my post for that cocktail: http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2014094 (Note: I tried all of these things in isolation and worked my way methodically up to this -- I don't endorse swallowing everything in sight! )

Caught your Task of the Month reference.

Quick question. I can't find piracetam capsules anywhere, will noopept do the trick at clearing the galantamine from my system? (I'm so new at LD supplements )

EDIT: nope, there's only nootropic powders on amazon, no capsules, which is a pain in the ass.

Menthol is an awesome support supp because it has huge effects on dream quality and length but doesn't (for me) make as much difference on lucidity.

I am looking forward to enhanced dream quality because of menthol. But I also believe that we may be able to capitalize on it and use it to become lucid indirectly. If there really are more or less persistent dream characteristics associated with menthol, then we just have to learn to identify those while dreaming. For example, “I am kissing JB, maybe this is a dream?”

(Note: I tried all of these things in isolation and worked my way methodically up to this -- I don't endorse swallowing everything in sight! )

Got it CL! No worries about that! I am sure outsiders may think we are supplement junkies but we are not, are we?

By the way, I tried fish oil and it only makes me to go into very deep, unmemorable sleep, so I won't be adding it to any cocktails unless they include salmon and some salad.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

I am looking forward to enhanced dream quality because of menthol. But I also believe that we may be able to capitalize on it and use it to become lucid indirectly. If there really are more or less persistent dream characteristics associated with menthol, then we just have to learn to identify those while dreaming. For example, “I am kissing JB, maybe this is a dream?”

Ny, don't know why but i think you might like JB???
So has anybody had any updates with green tea added?

Originally Posted by PeterF

Ny, don't know why but i think you might like JB???
So has anybody had any updates with green tea added?

Shhhh, quiet!

Oops, I totally messed up today. For one thing, I am starting to remind myself that if there is some erotic scene, I will be lucid. Not quite there though. The plan for today was have some green tea and possibly p. oil tablets after WBTB. Was very sleepy so totally ignored my plan, had sexual contents dream, did not get lucid. Dreams were vivid because of brain multivitamin I took...My experiments are really messed up. Oh, well...next time hopefully some better results and discipline in and out of dreams.

Date: Fri May 10th 2013
Dose: Oil of Peppermint (x1) = 200 mg (@WBTB)
Side Effects: Generally ok
Sleep Duration: Before = 5 hrs (WBTB 12 min) After = 4 hrs. Total = 9 hrs
Cognitive: Normal. Auditory/H.I. Incubation
Sexual: No
Atmosphere: Normal, general family themes. Nothing (apparently) out of the ordinary noted.
Other Comments: A ‘normal’ morning of (NL) dreams and fragments. A hint of incubation in one of the (later) dreams.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Quick question. I can't find piracetam capsules anywhere, will noopept do the trick at clearing the galantamine from my system? (I'm so new at LD supplements )

EDIT: nope, there's only nootropic powders on amazon, no capsules, which is a pain in the ass.

Good question, Ctharlhie. As my supply of Piracetam slowly dwindles, this is a question that I'll also need to figure out an answer for. It seems reasonable to me that the other racetams would work, but I simply don't know whether this has been studied.

There's a 1988 study that specifically Piracetam elevates muscarinic chol... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1988] - PubMed - NCBI addresses piracetam's ability to increase muscarinic receptor density in "aged mice". I'm not sure whether any similar studies have been done for the other racetams, but it's on my list of things to look into. As fewer and fewer caps rattle around in my bottle of piracetam, this has been on my mind more and more.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

I am looking forward to enhanced dream quality because of menthol. But I also believe that we may be able to capitalize on it and use it to become lucid indirectly. If there really are more or less persistent dream characteristics associated with menthol, then we just have to learn to identify those while dreaming. For example, “I am kissing JB, maybe this is a dream?”

That's a very good point! Getting to know the shape of menthol dreams and then going to bed with menthol on the brain does sound like a great way to give your brain the chance to connect the dots to lucidity.

Although, if a side effect of menthol that I have to look forward to is 106-degree Bieber Fever, I'm out.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Got it CL! No worries about that! I am sure outsiders may think we are supplement junkies but we are not, are we?

By the way, I tried fish oil and it only makes me to go into very deep, unmemorable sleep, so I won't be adding it to any cocktails unless they include salmon and some salad.

Ahh, interesting! I have not been able to find very consistent differences in sleep quality with fish oil, but I take a good amount of the stuff anyway (for health and fitness reasons) so I've been pushing a bunch of it before bed to see what benefits it might bestow. Haven't noticed huge differences one way or the other yet.

Originally Posted by PeterF

Ny, don't know why but i think you might like JB???
So has anybody had any updates with green tea added?

Well, I've combined menthol w/ green tea in this post/trip report: http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2014094. I used galantamine and choline, too, so the green tea was specifically there to help make WILD easier to achieve.

I also used menthol and green tea last night. I've got a DJ entry to write up on that, then I'll post my trip report in this thread later.

Dose: Pre-bed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil; WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 3 bags peppermint tea, 1 bag green tea
Side Effects: Many shallow, strange lucid dreams
Sleep Duration: 6.5 hours
Cognitive: Imaginative and quite gullible. Somewhat forgetful.
Sexual: Moderate. One mini-makeout with a DC and one extended check-out of attractive DCs.
Atmosphere: Bizarre, slightly confused, with a tendency toward the dark. One fright moment.
Lucid: Yes, many shallow ones. (2 WILD, 4 DEILD. Counted as one single, confusing LD.)

This was a repeat of the last combo that I tried, and again it was successful in getting me lucid (many many times!), but nowhere near as deeply. Every dream that I entered felt like it was always moments from slipping away. Dream content itself was uniformly bizarre and occasionally a little dark. There was one DC that was trying to give me a good scare, but I managed to ignore her.

It had been a week since the last time that I tried menthol, and I wonder if I became re-sensitized during this time. Dream bizarreness was pretty high and the slightly sexy side effects were beginning to creep their way in as well, even at this relatively low dose.

One of our dogs flipped out and started screaming in the middle of the night and I had to race down the stairs to calm her down. So I went into this set of dreams after elevating my heart rate and getting slightly pissed off. That might be why I got lucid so readily but so tenuously.

The full DJ entry: DEILDs and Demigods - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Date: 11 May
Dose: pre bed 3mg mel, WBTB1 - 2xpeppermint oil tablets, WBTB2 - 1/2 cup green tea
Side effects: very mild heartburn, insomnia after WBTB2
Duration: 3.5 hrs + wbtb1 (5mins) + 1.5 hrs = 5 hrs
Cognitive: extremely vivid
Sexual: none
Atmosphere: task oriented, explorative, positive, some astonishment
Other comments: I am happy with the vividness results and frustrated with my insomnia (nothing new), but I think I am starting to understand the problem. Took melatonin and had a natural wake about 3.5 hrs after falling asleep, decided to use this opportunity to take the p.oil capsules then. Good idea. The beginning rebound plus the menthol resulted in what I felt was fantastic vividness. Dream contents was about lucid dreaming where I was analyzing the effects of menthol and trying to go to bed. Also got some other realistic details.

Lucid status menthol dream

WBTB 2: set alarm the night before because I wanted to have tea to increase my chances of being lucid. Was a bit overexcited and too much analytical so internal dialogue turned on, plus outside noise, could not fall asleep.

Analysis: I should have noted by now that melatonin increases the chances of insomnia for me and my rather restless mind.
Suggestions for future experiments: Combo1: early WBTB with p. oil and tea
Combo2: pre bed: mel3, micro- WBTB early on with p. oil ( no tea, and not during weekends - too noisy!)
Combo3: pre bed: other supplement ( SJW/ginko/multivit) + p. oil ?
WBTB: I am keeping a close eye on the timings, and will experiment to find the optimal spot for different supps.

Research Update....

This is interesting.... It's annoying that this little abstract doesn't specifically say that (-)-menthol (the stereoisomer that natural sources generally contain) enhances glycine currents, but it does say it for just "menthol" and then it specifies (+)-menthol for "pronounced effects"... so I don't know, but the title just says menthol as well. So it's hard to say exactly, but interesting stuff nonetheless.

Modulation of human GABAA and glycine recept... [Eur J Pharmacol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Originally Posted by Modulation of human GABAA and glycine receptor currents by menthol and related monoterpenoids.

Abstract

Effects of common monoterpenoid alcohols and ketones were investigated on recombinant human gamma-aminobutyric acid A (GABAA; alpha1beta2gamma2s) and glycine (alpha1 homomers) receptors expressed in Xenopus oocytes. GABA currents were enhanced by coapplications of 10-300 microM: (+)-menthol>(-)-menthol>(-)-borneol>>(-)-menthone=camphor enantiomers>carvone enantiomers, with menthol acting stereoselectively. By contrast, thujone diastereomers inhibited GABAA receptor currents while glycine currents were only markedly potentiated by menthol. Positive modulation by (+)-menthol was explored given its pronounced effects (e.g., at 100 microM, GABA and glycine EC20 responses increased by 496+/-113% and 135+/-56%, respectively). (+)-Menthol, 100 microM, reduced EC50 values for GABA and glycine from 82.8+/-9.9 to 25.0+/-1.8 microM, and from 98.7+/-8.6 to 75.7+/-9.4 microM respectively, with negligible effects on maximal currents. This study reveals a novel neuroactive role for menthol as a stereoselective modulator of inhibitory ligand-gated channels.

What's interesting about this is that glycine receptors cause analgesia and inhibitory action throughout the brain including extrasynaptic areas of the hippocampus, giving them depressant effects... and this positive enhancement of glycine activity is also shared by...

...alcohol:

Differential Effects of Ethanol on GABAA and Glycine Receptor-Mediated Synaptic Currents in Brain Stem Motoneurons

Originally Posted by Differential Effects of Ethanol on GABAA and Glycine Receptor-Mediated Synaptic Currents in Brain Stem Motoneurons

Abstract

Ethanol potentiates glycinergic synaptic transmission to hypoglossal motoneurons (HMs). This effect on glycinergic transmission changes with postnatal development in that juvenile HMs (P9–13) are more sensitive to ethanol than neonate HMs (P1–3). We have now extended our previous study to investigate ethanol modulation of synaptic GABAA receptors (GABAARs), because both GABA and glycine mediate inhibitory synaptic transmission to brain stem motoneurons. We tested the effects of ethanol on GABAergic and glycinergic miniature inhibitory postsynaptic currents (mIPSCs) recorded from neonate and juvenile rat HMs in an in vitro slice preparation. Bath application of 30 mM ethanol had no significant effect on the GABAergic mIPSC amplitude or frequency recorded at either age. At 100 mM, ethanol significantly decreased the GABAergic mIPSC amplitude recorded from neonate (6 ± 3%, P < 0.05) and juvenile (16 ± 3%, P < 0.01) HMs. The same concentration of ethanol increased the GABAergic mIPSC frequency recorded from neonate (64 ± 17%, P < 0.05) and juvenile (40 ± 15%, n.s.) HMs. In contrast, 100 mM ethanol robustly potentiated glycinergic mIPSC amplitude in neonate (31 ± 3%, P < 0.0001) and juvenile (41 ± 7%, P < 0.001) HMs. These results suggest that glycine receptors are more sensitive to modulation by ethanol than GABAA receptors and that 100 mM ethanol has the opposite effect on GABAAR-mediated currents in juvenile HMs, that is, inhibition rather than enhancement. Further, comparing ethanol's effects on GABAergic mIPSC amplitude and frequency, ethanol modulates GABAergic synaptic transmission to HMs differentially. Presynaptically, ethanol enhances mIPSC frequency while postsynaptically it decreases mIPSC amplitude.

...and THC:

Cannabinoid potentiation of glycine receptors ... [Nat Chem Biol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Originally Posted by Cannabinoid potentiation of glycine receptors contributes to cannabis-induced analgesia.

Abstract

Cannabinoids enhance the function of glycine receptors (GlyRs). However, little is known about the mechanisms and behavioral implication of cannabinoid-GlyR interaction. Using mutagenesis and NMR analysis, we have identified a serine at 296 in the GlyR protein critical for the potentiation of I(Gly) by Δ(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a major psychoactive component of marijuana. The polarity of the amino acid residue at 296 and the hydroxyl groups of THC are critical for THC potentiation. Removal of the hydroxyl groups of THC results in a compound that does not affect I(Gly) when applied alone but selectively antagonizes cannabinoid-induced potentiating effect on I(Gly) and analgesic effect in a tail-flick test in mice. The cannabinoid-induced analgesia is absent in mice lacking α3GlyRs but not in those lacking CB1 and CB2 receptors. These findings reveal a new mechanism underlying cannabinoid potentiation of GlyRs, which could contribute to some of the cannabis-induced analgesic and therapeutic effects.

What these two studies are essentially implying is that glycine receptors play a role in the behavioral effects of both alcohol and weed consumption. This would mean that it's possible that menthol could share some of these effects, particularly related to relaxation and mood lift and potentially resulting effects like lowered inhibitions. Since menthol also effects GABA this means that it would actually have an even larger chance to cause alcohol-like changes in behavior, in addition to its kappa-opioid overlap with CB1 receptors' dynorphin release....

I just thought this was a cool little note. Maybe there's even more than we already thought to menthol's "recreational" dream mood effects?

-----

Originally Posted by NyxCC

That's a great post and opens up the field for some more experimentation. Great thing I have so many supplements around so that I can combine them without too much emphasis on a single one, so hopefully I can avoid desensitizing.

Thanks! And that's good, you can definitely get the most out of them that way.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Thanks for the warm welcome Aly and others! I am also looking forward to experimenting and reading about your experiences as well. Dream on!

You're very welcome!

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Aly; keep up the good work I can't wait to start experimenting with the SJW/menthol combo after exams.

Thanks, I look forward to seeing your results with the combo!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this as well! Did I mention that I love this thread? I do. It's true, you know.

This thread loves you too, Canis.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Quick question. I can't find piracetam capsules anywhere, will noopept do the trick at clearing the galantamine from my system? (I'm so new at LD supplements )

EDIT: nope, there's only nootropic powders on amazon, no capsules, which is a pain in the ass.

I have a source where you can still get piracetam, if you need it. They also have noopept, and aniracetam. And sometimes they have pramiracetam, but I'm not sure about right now.... Anyway, what do you mean by clearing the galantamine? Upregulating acetylcholine receptors? If that's the case, noopept can do that. It increases the expression of BDNF, which upregulates them.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Date: 11 May
Dose: pre bed 3mg mel, WBTB1 - 2xpeppermint oil tablets, WBTB2 - 1/2 cup green tea
Side effects: very mild heartburn, insomnia after WBTB2
Duration: 3.5 hrs + wbtb1 (5mins) + 1.5 hrs = 5 hrs
Cognitive: extremely vivid
Sexual: none
Atmosphere: task oriented, explorative, positive, some astonishment
Other comments: I am happy with the vividness results and frustrated with my insomnia (nothing new), but I think I am starting to understand the problem. Took melatonin and had a natural wake about 3.5 hrs after falling asleep, decided to use this opportunity to take the p.oil capsules then. Good idea. The beginning rebound plus the menthol resulted in what I felt was fantastic vividness. Dream contents was about lucid dreaming where I was analyzing the effects of menthol and trying to go to bed. Also got some other realistic details.

Lucid status menthol dream

WBTB 2: set alarm the night before because I wanted to have tea to increase my chances of being lucid. Was a bit overexcited and too much analytical so internal dialogue turned on, plus outside noise, could not fall asleep.

Analysis: I should have noted by now that melatonin increases the chances of insomnia for me and my rather restless mind.
Suggestions for future experiments: Combo1: early WBTB with p. oil and tea
Combo2: pre bed: mel3, micro- WBTB early on with p. oil ( no tea, and not during weekends - too noisy!)
Combo3: pre bed: other supplement ( SJW/ginko/multivit) + p. oil ?
WBTB: I am keeping a close eye on the timings, and will experiment to find the optimal spot for different supps.

Congrats on the vividness! That menthol dream is pretty hilarious, you were so close!

Another Update!

This is not so much something new about menthol but about something more it potentially does....

This is more a paper than a study but I found it mentioned in several places and this pretty much sums it up: Rem Sleep Paralysis and RBD - Cristina Badino e Chiara Barberis.

So basically, what it says is.... simultaneous activation of GABA(B) and GABA(A)/glycine receptors in the pons is responsible for REM atonia, aka, sleep paralysis. And if the last study I posted is right, menthol hits two out of the three. In fact, because of the way alcohol's GABA effects work, it may do it even more effectively than that....

Maybe that's why it's so great for WILDing?

Well I bought 60 200mg capsules and have taken them twice now and both times I got absolutely nothing. If there was a difference in my dream it was completely unnoticeable.
Weird how one or two cups of fresh fragrant peppermint tea could have such an impact upon my dreams, and a huge 200mg of peppermint oil could do nothing...

@Aly; your research is so inspiring. I can't believe no one caught on to menthol as a dream enhancer before.

@dutch; bah, don't go saying that still I'm trying my peppermint capsules tonight, with b5 and choline/inositol. Should I imbibe alcohol before bed as well? (Before bed of course)

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Well I bought 60 200mg capsules and have taken them twice now and both times I got absolutely nothing. If there was a difference in my dream it was completely unnoticeable.
Weird how one or two cups of fresh fragrant peppermint tea could have such an impact upon my dreams, and a huge 200mg of peppermint oil could do nothing...

You may want to try a higher dose? Remember that the peppermint tea also has things like vitamins in it. I'd guess that the purer source you get the higher dose you might need.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Aly; your research is so inspiring. I can't believe no one caught on to menthol as a dream enhancer before.

Thanks, Ctharlhie. It was just a lucky find anyway though, I had no idea it had all these different receptor affinities or anything. I'm sure people have noticed something from peppermint tea before, especially since it used to be used as an aphrodisiac. I guess it just never caught on as much as others though, but I'm sure there are plenty of other unknown dream enhancers too!

Has anyone used this brand for galantamine before? Will be trustworthy/good quality. My other option is to import from the states, which is a bit expensive. Alternatively there's always the Huperzine A route... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Source-Natur...hu-rd_add_1_dp, which does seem much better value, G is pretty expensive.

@Xanous, you had success with Huperzine?

Also, on the subject of amino acids, was it decided that l-glutamine is the best for lucid dreaming?

@Xanous, you had success with Huperzine?

Yes it's almost a good as galantamine. 400mcg works best for me. I bought the puritan's pride brand. I don't think I've combined it with menthol yet though... Just DMAE and choline.