You can pretend all you want. You can't bullshit a bullshitter. :P
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You can pretend all you want. You can't bullshit a bullshitter. :P
You bastard. Pretty obvious though, right? ;)
1st time I was at the beach, wind surfing and jumping off surfboards >.> lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
2nd time I was toying with an overweight Asian man who had kidnapped me. Well, I wouldn't call it a real kidnapping... it was poorly done, I'd have done it much better if roles were reversed. Anyway, I'll refrain from critiquing his methods and just add that I was killed at the end of it all because I let it get out of hand. Although I did enjoy it! I mean, who doesn't enjoy playing with deviant minds, right?
So i took 3 Negros before going back to bed at WBTB today. I'm not exactly sure if it's relevant, but i got a long lucid today, which was even somewhat weird :D
Long Lucid: Underwater Attempt, Lots of Stuff Done, Failed TotM - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
I can't tell if the Negro did it or not... but i'll definitely try it again tomorrow :)
The only problem i have with this is that i have to eat the Negros fast to not prolong the WBTB duration too much... but i can't taste them well enough this way xD
Are you saying you really like the idea of being kidnapped? :P Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
That is interesting. I certainly find the tablets "soothing" for the throat, at the very least. I think that's the whole point of the tablets, after all -- they _are_ cough drops, meant to have that effect. I'd find it interesting if they contributed to my dreams, somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
What triggered the effect on your dreams? Was it the residual flavour in your mouth? Was it your brain processing the idea of "taste" before you slept? Was it your throat being involved with it somehow? Was it the sucky-sucky-sucky motion on the tablet? What was unique about this tablet that would be different from, say, sucking on a piece of candy?
Would you get the same dream effect if you *chewed* the tablet as opposed to *sucking* on the tablet?
Definitely. I've had long thought out scenarios regarding this. Ok, I'm kidding, most were half-baked. Beside the liberation of responsibility, the thing which is most attractive to me is all the one-on-one play time. I mean, you have their undivided attention... and depending on the reason for the kidnapping (some like personal play toys, some just want to mold, some do a bit of serial killing, some enjoy torture, some sell to other countries, etc etc etc) it can be quite a diverse mental environment to navigate. I mean, a real challenge. How long will you survive? At what limits are you willing to push yourself to escape.... are you willing to kill? How badly are you willing to hurt until you wish you were dead? How long can you keep your kidnapper entertained before they decide to be rid of you? I mean, the personal growth can be tremendous. Assuming you live of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
But then if you die..... that's an entirely different journey.
I'm not sure what triggered the effect. I mean, I've been downing Rockstars on a daily basis and those have tons of stuff in them. I'm also taking multi-vitamins and an occasional caffeine-like pill thing for more energy. Sort of praying I don't die from a heart attack. So who knows what triggered any of it.. but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindraker
The taste sucked. I brush my teeth after sucking on them. I don't think anything was different about this than sucking on a piece of candy. Although I eat all three drops at the same time since it sucks... candies I'll do one at a time because they don't suck.
Not sure if it would be different if I chewed them... and considering that they're a little hard, I don't want to chip a tooth :\ Maybe I'll try swallowing them whole. I should probably draw a better baseline though before I start doing all sorts of different things though... and drawing a baseline might be difficult.
*uses the same word again* Interesting *but adds in a few nods* :nodyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
You're very much into the psychology behind it... is this non-sexual enjoyment, some sort of self-actualization, a cleverly shrouded interest in submissive roles, or what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
My dreams last night were largely comprised of sexual activities, were quite mundane, and lacked enhanced vividness. This is the second or third day without menthol after consuming 'large' amounts.... so this could be the upregulation effect. Though, I'm not sure how its absence would cause an increase in sexual dreams. So far, since taking menthol and then stopping, I've seen a clear increase in sexual dreams (both when taking it and not); however, all other reported effects were largely inconsistent.
I'm trying to determine whether there's some co-factor that's actually caused the increase in sexual dreams... hmm. But nothing comes to mind -- haven't been abstaining or the like.
Ok, so last night I took 1 of the 'Menthol' sweets by Jakemans Boston, England. Don't know of the menthol quantity BUT, although I didn't have a lucid dream as such, I got lucid a few times and woke up instantly. These were mostly during slipping in / out of sleep consciousness (a bit of lazy WILDing) and were not quite fully formed dreams. This morning I had one dream where I became lucid, but woke up instantly.
Will try 2 sweets tonight.
For the record they taste yummy :)
A-ha, thank you for your reply. This specific is interesting -- your tablets seem to be different than mine. Mine are old, sticky, even such that they stick somewhat to the paper and will even attract ants if I don't have them in a plastic container.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
The baseline idea is a good idea; I think I used such a low quantity that it might not have much of an effect on me. After all, I have a good metabolism and drink lots of water -- so I wouldn't be surprised if whatever got rapidly flushed out by my digestive system if I only took one tablet.
*pulls out a plushy couch to recline on and continues*Quote:
*uses the same word again* Interesting *but adds in a few nods*
You're very much into the psychology behind it... is this non-sexual enjoyment, some sort of self-actualization, a cleverly shrouded interest in submissive roles, or what?
It is all of the above. In simple terms, it's fun to me. Whether it turns sexual, non-sexual, self-actualization, or even playing a subby role. I don't care too much about controlling what direction things turn, I just enjoy changing the directions. Inflicting change... and then seeing where the change goes... and then behaving accordingly.
What about kidnapping do you find attractive? Here, you can use my couch.
I took 3 Honey and Lem's this morning. Total = 29.1mg
Managed a lucid, although I didn't think I initially would.
The Weather, an Alsatian and the Phone Box - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Yeah I know what you mean. I have exactly the same problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlezoe
I'll stand, thanks. *meanders up and down the room...*Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
...Nothing inherent in kidnapping, but am more so intrigued by the character of those who'd enjoy being kidnapped. To me, it rings alarm bells of a submissive person... one who likes to be out of control, isolated, taunted, and likes the intensity of not knowing what'll happen next. I like that character, if true,... because I'd pretty much like being the opposite. Plus, I'm sure the kidnapped woman would be damned angry and attempt to attack me on occasion -- I like that. I wouldn't say control, so much as dominance though... control doesn't feel right. I like the dynamic nature of power in dominance/submissive.
I'll buy the peppermint tea today -- I hope I have some decent success. Spontaneous lucids would be nice because I'm too lazy currently to WBTB... >_> Then maybe I can choose to do something else in my dreams beside engage in sex (simply because it always lets you down at the best part, and significantly shortens the dream). Wish I knew roughly how much mg of menthol is derived from the tea after consumption though.
Ah yes. So you mean you'd prefer being in control versus controlling. Dominant/submissive relationships can be fun, no argument there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
Seems a few people are wondering that. Might be useful to also consider how long you all will be steeping your tea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
Negative Effects of Eating Too Much Mint seems to have this to say, not sure how valid or reputable the site is but it's something to consider.
Quote:
Does Eating too much Mint have Side Effects?
Though mint is a widely used herb, it is safe only when consumed in small amount and for a short duration. Mint leaves are used in preparing mint tea, one of the most popular herbal teas consumed worldwide. It has been used for several years due to its various health benefits. It cures indigestion. The potent smell of mint helps to relieve headache as well. But consuming the tea excessively can cause various health problems. Drinking peppermint tea can cause skin irritation, flushing (reddening of the skin), headache, irritated mucous membrane and heart burn. Menthol is one of the active chemicals in the tea, and can cause throat closure in small children and adults. A person who has asthma should avoid the use of food products containing mint. Women who are pregnant or nursing a baby should strictly avoid consumption of mint tea. Taking mint tea during pregnancy may lead to a miscarriage. Applying peppermint oil on a child's face can lead to severe breathing problems.
To avoid negative effects of mint, one should take it in recommended dosage. Both peppermint and spearmint are available in capsules, tonic, tea and oil form. Experts discourage use of spearmint and recommend peppermint instead. Following are the prescribed doses for peppermint:
As Tea: Soak 1 tsp of dried peppermint leaves in a cup of boiling water for at least ten minutes and cool it. Drink this two to three times daily between meals.
Just googled the name. I know the 'berry' (no sugar ones) are 5mg (per sweet.) Couldn't find the info. regarding yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisit
From what I read, they sound like "The Dog's Boll*cks", (a 'proper' sweet that will put hairs on your chest, etc.) Plus I think you can buy a cheap pack of them in Boots.
Oh man, so much to respond to. >w<
Hehe, thanks. :P It was pretty great. :chuckle: I'm sure you'll get used to control soon enough, it comes easily with practice. :) And yeah, emotions really can make a dream unstable... but it's possible to overcome, just working up one step at a time. The adrenaline rush of flying used to wake me up instantly, but now it's my most common method of transportation. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by RobStar
Awesome! Welcome to the experiment! :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisit
I'll find a way to work around it. :P It's definitely doable, it just takes some practice. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
Well that's good then, lol. I have something else to say here, but I'm going to wait for the further-down quote. :rolleyes:
As far as the relaxant thing goes, there are a couple reasons I can think of that menthol would have effects like this, with the first being that it's a local anesthetic and the second being that the kappa-opioid receptor, which is the important one I think for dream enhancement, also has the potential to produce pain-killing effects. So if you are feeling pain-killing effects, that could be a good sign that you're on the right path. :) I definitely get the happy dreams thing, mine have been fairly cheery or romantic/sexual every time I've used it so far. "So maybe we each are served what we most want".... Wouldn't that be great for us to have randomly stumbled upon? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
I'd be up for making a template. I'll try to see what I can scrounge together.... I may PM you for peer editing. :P
That was a pretty awesome dream. :chuckle: I wonder if or how much the menthol was connected? And I wonder if it had anything to do with the waist part? :shock: (Just thinking back to the other thread where the person was getting crazy nightmares lol.) I'm jealous though, my lucids can get pretty cool but they're never that long. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by littlezoe
That is pretty interesting.... Now, what I was thinking before is, I wonder if the lowering of cAMP is connected to the sexual effects? Or if there's some other long-lasting effect that might be related. Because remember how I said before that taking menthol pre-sleep rather than WBTB might just be causing residual effects due to its short half-life? Well, that lowering of cAMP is pretty much what I was referring to.... I remember reading that it can take a few days to restore totally normal levels. The same thing happens with salvia, and the more you smoke it within a few days usually the stronger it gets. We've all been taking relatively low doses, but with the one you took, on top of using it a few days before that already, you might've built up enough of the effect that your lowered cAMP levels are still having the effect for a few days afterward. That's totally just a theory, but that's what comes to mind. I haven't had the same sexual dreams on the days I didn't take it, so I would imagine if it is the cause it might be something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
Nice! I get that stuff a lot when I take it too, like it becomes much easier to slip into a dream without having that lapse in consciousness (whether lucid or not), or like the random fleeting almost-dreams that you get while rolling around in bed in the morning are more formed and stable. The first night I took it I had my second WILD through those. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisit
Alright, question time.... You mentioned a lack of visuals like the ones you'd gotten before. Do you think it was random, or maybe connected to some tolerance building? Like, would you say that it seemed like the effect was lesser? We've been talking about a potential upregulation effect, but we're still in the process of that. It's possible that in at least some, if not all, testers eventually you might want to take a break of a day or two in between some doses to see if the effects bounce back up. If you think it was just a coincidence, then that's fine too... just thought I'd ask since you've been taking it fairly consistently. Another important part of the experiment is to figure out where the limit is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobStar
Thanks for that. I was getting nervous there until I read that the "prescribed" dose is two to three times daily lol. I think we'll be fine, but as I've said, it is best if we approach it with caution and avoid extended high-dose use until we know exactly what we're doing. I think this is also another good reason for people to switch to the tea if they can.... At least we know for it what's "acceptable", and I'm sure there's a lot more documented on the potential side effects and limits of drinking peppermint tea than there are of eating menthol cough drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
Thank you ^^ My lucids are not that long usually... even while i had similarly long ones before, but not since i'm on DV, so this was kinda cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
That waist part made me think of the menthol as soon as i woke up... my lucids usually don't have blood at all... especially not people and animals cut in half :shock:
...but for some reason i took it more lightly as i expected at first... maybe because i was looking down at them from above and didn't see them from up close.
But even just the length of the dream made me think of menthol too, that it might be related... i'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that i had this dream on the same day when i took that menthol before falling asleep :)
Oh, and this thread is getting more and more better as we share our experiences ^^ I like this thread :D
Haha, yeah, it's probably best that you didn't get that scene too up close and personal. :P The person from the other thread did mention that their nightmarish things weren't really scaring them as much as just the intensity and vividness were. Strange....Quote:
Originally Posted by littlezoe
That could be, that does seem to a commonly reported effect here. :) I wonder, too, if it does extend REM periods like postulated before. That could definitely have made it easier for you to do your DEILDs.
I like this thread too! :content: I'm so happy we're actually getting some good experimenting done, it's definitely fun no matter the result. :D
Thanks!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
And I could do with a few hairs. :) Aye, the packet does seem to stress how amazing and good quality they are, being proper sweets lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobStar
Okay guys I have created the ultimate tea mixture incase anyone wants incredible memory recall. Here it goes
- Just green tea
- mint
- horse chesnut leaves
- ginger
- clary sage essential oil. (optional)
This mix increases not only memory but also awareness and concentration through increasing blood circulation through the brain (Green tea, ginger and horse chestnut leaves) and a few other things. I spent a good while looking up tests on each of these ingredients and they seem to all drastically improve recall. I will report my progress tomorow.
Join the club! I've only got a few hairs round my little titties! Lol :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisit
The imagery I think was *lesser, hence the less recall (as shown in the DJ.) However I did worry about losing time also. (More awake, than asleep - possibility due to the sugars acting as stimulants in my case?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
*It might be due to both reasons, I.e. Random/tolerance with a bit of stress (cortisol and adrenaline) thrown in for good measure. I think stress makes the libido drop as well. It is my 5th WBTB in a row with (IMO) good results, so it would be interesting to see what an effect a day off or two does regarding my recall and imagery levels. I will try this nearer the middle, or end of the week.
If I try a higher dose, probably a little further down the line, then I will have to make sure I wind down or wean myself off in the days after. Maybe drink lots of water before any experiment and afterwards as I wouldn't want to give my kidneys, (brain) or liver too much of a workout! :horse:
Let us know how you got on. Maybe you could bottle it and sell it if it works?Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchraptor
2 sweets consumed tonight! Wish me luck!
So, this might be an interesting detail to add to the libido/"pure sex" discussion.... It would seem that kappa-opioid agonists increase levels of prolactin. For those who aren't aware, prolactin in a chemical directly opposite to dopamine as far as the chemicals that make sex feel good go. Dopamine is connected to sexual arousal (like getting turned on, or the literal act of having sex, or masturbating, or whatever) and prolactin is connected to sexual gratification (the reason orgasms are so satisfying). Generally, as dopamine levels go up prolactin levels go down, and vice-versa. This makes sense with dynorphins lowering levels of dopamine. Prolactin isn't going to make you feel super horny when you're awake, but when you're in a dream... it's possible that the mind uses the feeling of prolactin to create the pure romantic dream scenarios, or the "clean" sex, or even just the happy dreams, because it puts you in a a satisfied orgasmic mindset, rather than a super horny one.
Interestingly, D2 receptor agonists actually lower prolactin levels, but it's possible that kappa-opioid receptors still release phenethylamine but also release prolactin in higher amounts, generating a net effect of increased levels. There are lots of systems that work like this in the brain, though of course the phenethylamine thing is still speculation (but it seems to fit). It could be that the reason dreams with sexual themes seem to be prevalent with menthol is because D2 activation is still causing an increase in libido (which is does even despite lowering dopamine levels, as dopamine generates some of its sexual effects through this receptor), but the dreams are being made much cleaner by the prolactin release. Conversely, it could just be that increased prolactin levels are enough for to form an association and create the sexually-themed dreams. It's certainly not surprising to me now that my first sexual dream from menthol was about satisfied naked cuddling....
That does seem like it'll be a potent mix, from what I know about those plants. :) I look forward to your results!Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchraptor
Definitely, definitely. Alright, thanks for the info! :content: Stress definitely can negatively effect dreams and libido, so I guess we'll see how it goes for you next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobStar
Good luck! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by isthisit
Well I'm annoyed. Took some menthol before bed, remaining consistent with the amount (30 mg). And yet AGAIN, I got happy dreams. NOT sex dreams, no siree.... god forbid Kaomea has some super raunchy and perverse sex dreams... no, let's give her some super amped content feels of happiness. I didn't do ANYTHING. I just remained in my space, analyzed all of my close relationships and then some, and remained in a state of blissful joy and appreciation for all that they provide to my life. In fact, I even woke up with a god damned smile on my face.... FROM DOING NOTHING but loving my friends for who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
Where is my sex?!
Well I'm annoyed. Took some menthol last night, remaining consistent with the amount (30 mg). And yet AGAIN, I got happy dreams. NOT sex dreams, no siree.... god forbid Kaomea has some super raunchy and perverse sex dreams... no, let's give her some super amped content feels of happiness. I didn't do ANYTHING. I just remained in my space, analyzed all of my close relationships and then some, and remained in a state of blissful joy and appreciation for all that they provide to my life. In fact, I even woke up with a god damned smile on my face.... FROM DOING NOTHING but loving my friends for who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzarin
Where is my sex?!
No changes in lucidity, stability, vividness from standard dreaming nights.