Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

It would certainly be convenient if your calculations are correct.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

I'd love to experiment with menthol, but I find it has a few setbacks for me. Similar to what CL has noticed, I found a while ago that tea stains my teeth, and also sometimes upsets my stomach. Cough drops are sugary and don't want to have tooth decay. I actually caused some decay when using drops during a few colds. There is one last option to consider though, an inhaler nasal stick. Anyone tried those with some good feedback?

Any method of administration besides eating/drinking is probably not the way to go. The half-life is already short enough as it is.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Wait... Peppermint tea is a dream enhancer? I already drink that on a daily basis, never at 4am though

How would you go about ingesting peppermint oil, inhaled with steam?

I'm usually sceptical about non-medical supplements, but Alyzarin seems to have done her homework on this.

Hop on board, Ctharlhie. We've compiled a pretty good amount of anecdotal, scientific, and experimental evidence to back this up. There's no hurt in trying it out!

For what its worth, I was taking the oil straight by the teaspoon. The flavor was.strong but I actually found it enjoyable. However, I have much better results with the tea but now Im curious what a tea/oil combo would do for me!

Originally Posted by Xanous

For what its worth, I was taking the oil straight by the teaspoon. The flavor was.strong but I actually found it enjoyable. However, I have much better results with the tea but now Im curious what a tea/oil combo would do for me!

So you just gulped a teaspoon of peppermint essential oil? Ha ha... ok, there's no way that my formula is right then. A teaspoon is 4.9 ml, so multiply that by 366.3 mg / ml and you get nearly 1.8 grams of menthol! That's a lot.

Then again, oral LD50 for menthol is something like 3g / kg of bodyweight, so like 200g for a typical adult male. In other words, 100x what you had. I wonder if you really did have that much menthol! I'm curious why results were better for you with tea vs. the essential oil. (Note: As Dutch pointed out, LD50 for menthol is kinda tricky. Don't start testing out my LD50 numbers, people!! )

Well, there I go. I've started "thinking" again. Now I have to buy a bottle of this stuff.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

So you just gulped a teaspoon of peppermint essential oil?

Ha well... Oops. I went back in the thread and I reported taking 1/4 and 1/8 teaspoons. I wasn't keeping a spreadsheet back then so I kinda forgot. I guess that makes a more reasonable dose? I wonder how much I am getting with peppermint tea and I wonder if taking too much negates the effect as with other supplements. But then again I got nowhere near the amounts you were talking about.

Originally Posted by Xanous

For what its worth, I was taking the oil straight by the teaspoon. The flavor was.strong but I actually found it enjoyable. However, I have much better results with the tea but now Im curious what a tea/oil combo would do for me!

I know you did clarify the amount roughly between 1/4 and 1/8th of a teaspoon in your last post, but even so I don't think I would advocate taking it straight as it is known to irritate or even burn the skin.

Be mindful of any side effects such as skin allergies, heartburn and even slow heartbeat, etc, etc. with peppermint oil. Make sure you are not on any other medication, etc.

Regards.

Thur May 2nd 2013

Dose: (Bed) Zinc (x1) = 10 mg. (WBTB) Banana (x1.) Menthodex (x2) = ?? (0.36 % w/w)
Side Effects: Insomnia (See note)
Sleep Duration: 4-5.5 hrs (approx)/ 2-3 hrs (approx) after
WBTB: Yes (30-62 min) (N.B: I cat-napped the first 30 min)
Lucid: No
Vividness: Average
Stability: Not applicable
Dream Comments: I did have trouble trying to get back to sleep post WBTB, although I don’t think this was down to the Menthol, etc. It was probably due to me thinking about (general) things too much.
I did experience a couple or so noise/pressure head sensations post WBTB when I finally did start to relax.
I was a bit lazy with my recall this morning too.

Dose: Pre-bed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 200mg L-theanine, 3 bags peppermint tea, 1 bag green tea
Side Effects: None.
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
WBTB: Yes. (30 minutes)
Lucid: Yes!!
Vividness: Very high.
Stability: High
Dream Comments: Possibly the coolest lucid dream of my life.

This was my experiment with combining three of my favorite supplements: galantamine, menthol, and caffeine. I was running a bit of a balancing act -- I wanted to get the dream- and imagination-enhancing effects of menthol without becoming amorous. (I was planning on summoning a female DV member and didn't want to have any unwise impulses.) Therefore, I dialed menthol back to 3 bags of peppermint tea, a dose at which I'd never experienced the side effect of "reproductive impulsiveness", but one that had given me a lot of cool dreams back in the day.

The result was a ton of imaginative, adventurous, non-sexy lucid dreaming. Control was good (though not perfect) and I pulled down about 25-30 minutes of LD time.

Of note, too, was the addition of caffeine. This led to a relatively smooth entry into the dream via WILD and (according to science) suppression of deep sleep. The combination of G, menthol, and just a touch of caffeine looks very promising for nice, long WILDs! This was an awesome night of dreaming. I'll definitely be trying this combo again!

The lucid dream: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/cani...weredog-46009/

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Great suggestion, dutchraptor! That's what you're doing with your awesome peppermint oil distillation system, right? I really love that thing.

I'm trying some back-of-the-envelope calculations in order to determine about how much menthol we're getting w/ peppermint oil. If I'm doing this right, just a few drops would be very potent. Does this look right to you?

Wikipedia says that peppermint essential oil has 40.7% menthol content. Source
Peppermint oil density: ~.9g / ml Source
Let's say that we're talking about a standard dropper that is about 20 drops per mL. (Estimated) Source

Amount of menthol in a mL of peppermint essential oil: .9g / ml * .407 ml menthol / 1ml oil = .3663 g / mL = 366.3 mg / mL
Amount of menthol in a drop of peppermint essential oil: 366.3 mg / ml * 1 ml / 20 drops = 18 mg menthol / drop

If I've done that right, even 2 drops would yield 36 mg of menthol, which we've generally seen to be enough for dream enhancement. That's not very much at all! Could that be right or am I messing up an assumption somewhere? It'd be extremely economical if it worked!

This definitely seems about right. I think diluting it would help in terms of accuracy though, if you dilute it four times then you have around 4.5 mg per drop, and then you could basically just take one ml of the dilute solution for around 80mg of menthol and 80mg of menthone. Going by this you could use it for 40 consecutive days, or almost three months by taking it every second day, for around 4 euro

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Dose: Pre-bed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 200mg L-theanine, 3 bags peppermint tea, 1 bag green tea
Side Effects: None.
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
WBTB: Yes. (30 minutes)
Lucid: Yes!!
Vividness: Very high.
Stability: High
Dream Comments: Possibly the coolest lucid dream of my life.

This was my experiment with combining three of my favorite supplements: galantamine, menthol, and caffeine. I was running a bit of a balancing act -- I wanted to get the dream- and imagination-enhancing effects of menthol without becoming amorous. (I was planning on summoning a female DV member and didn't want to have any unwise impulses.) Therefore, I dialed menthol back to 3 bags of peppermint tea, a dose at which I'd never experienced the side effect of "reproductive impulsiveness", but one that had given me a lot of cool dreams back in the day.

The result was a ton of imaginative, adventurous, non-sexy lucid dreaming. Control was good (though not perfect) and I pulled down about 25-30 minutes of LD time.

Of note, too, was the addition of caffeine. This led to a relatively smooth entry into the dream via WILD and (according to science) suppression of deep sleep. The combination of G, menthol, and just a touch of caffeine looks very promising for nice, long WILDs! This was an awesome night of dreaming. I'll definitely be trying this combo again!

The lucid dream: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/cani...weredog-46009/

Epic result there I'm gonna have to try that combo.

So I was too late to get to my local Holland and Barrett's (herbal remedies, vitamins etc. in case it's just a UK shop) but I did manage to get some Halls. They're extra strong, so how many should I take at first, and during WBTB? (is new at supplements)

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

So I was too late to get to my local Holland and Barrett's (herbal remedies, vitamins etc. in case it's just a UK shop) but I did manage to get some Halls. They're extra strong, so how many should I take at first, and during WBTB? (is new at supplements)

If it's the Halls Extra strong I'm thinking of that I tried last year then mine were 15.8 mg of Menthol per lozenge. So on that basis for a first time then try two; one after the other during WBTB. (Due to the short half-life, etc.)
In my case I tend to get a bit of a gripey stomach and gas off the cough drops (and ingested air,) plus it is best to only try no more than a couple just in case you are sensitive to the other ingredients as well as the Menthol, e.g: Glycol, etc.
I advise a quick rinse/teeth cleaning after due to the high sugar content that some of these lozenges contain.

Hope that helps?

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

This definitely seems about right. I think diluting it would help in terms of accuracy though, if you dilute it four times then you have around 4.5 mg per drop, and then you could basically just take one ml of the dilute solution for around 80mg of menthol and 80mg of menthone. Going by this you could use it for 40 consecutive days, or almost three months by taking it every second day, for around 4 euro

Brilliant, that's the way to go. That really beats fretting over whether your "standard dropper" is "standard" enough. Simple and elegant.

Also, FWIW, Wikipedia lists the menthone content of peppermint essential oil as being 23.4% vs. the 40.7% for menthol. (Edit: Just remembered to add this.)

Speaking of taking it every 2nd day, I have not been able to decide what the maximum frequency is that I should employ. Because of the short half-life and quick elimination from the system, I felt justified going as high as 3x per week sometimes, but I wonder whether that's wise.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Epic result there I'm gonna have to try that combo.

So I was too late to get to my local Holland and Barrett's (herbal remedies, vitamins etc. in case it's just a UK shop) but I did manage to get some Halls. They're extra strong, so how many should I take at first, and during WBTB? (is new at supplements)

Thanks. How much menthol is in each of those drops, Ctharlhie? For what it's worth, I got strong effects at ~35mg menthol (dream quantity and sexiness), with more mild effects at lower doses. At around ~20 mg or so, I believe that I got fewer You may just want to start on the lower end and very gradually go higher. Whatever suits your personality. Good record-keeping (right here's a good place) will help you find your sweet spot, I think.

I found the drops (or peppermint tea) most effective at WBTB, but YMMV. Highlander makes the excellent suggestion to brush those teeth afterward. Good thinking!

Originally Posted by highlander

If it's the Halls Extra strong I'm thinking of that I tried last year then mine were 15.8 mg of Menthol per lozenge. So on that basis for a first time then try two; one after the other during WBTB. (Due to the short half-life, etc.)
In my case I tend to get a bit of a gripey stomach and gas off the cough drops (and ingested air,) plus it is best to only try no more than a couple just in case you are sensitive to the other ingredients as well as the Menthol, e.g: Glycol, etc.
I advise a quick rinse/teeth cleaning after due to the high sugar content that some of these lozenges contain.

Hope that helps?

I'm a bit confused on the actual content, some sources say as high as 19mg (crikey), but the last time I had a throat infection I'd get through two packs a day with no awareness of possible menthol overdose 0_o Given that, I'm not sure on my potential tolerance, we'll see.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Thanks. How much menthol is in each of those drops, Ctharlhie? For what it's worth, I got strong effects at ~35mg menthol (dream quantity and sexiness), with more mild effects at lower doses. At around ~20 mg or so, I believe that I got fewer You may just want to start on the lower end and very gradually go higher. Whatever suits your personality. Good record-keeping (right here's a good place) will help you find your sweet spot, I think.

I found the drops (or peppermint tea) most effective at WBTB, but YMMV. Highlander makes the excellent suggestion to brush those teeth afterward. Good thinking!

I will be posting my progress

@Alyzarin: I've read the whole thread and your research is astounding (I like the uncompromising approach to posting chemical and neuroanatomy jargon), do you have a career in neuroscience?

Considering that there are no warnings on the pack (and according to wiki Halls have dropped claims to having an active ingredient like strepsils do (anaesthetic) and simply call them sweets) I think it would be hard to overdose on Halls. I'm gonna go with at least two. If I had a cold I'd be having at least one during the night!

Dose: Two Hall's Extra Strong (22-38mg depending on your source), I take multivitamins so my B5, B6 and B12 levels are a bit over the daily recommended amount (but not at toxicity level, of course).
Side Effects: Nope.
Sleep Duration: ~10 hours
WBTB: 45 minute.
Lucid: No (Pre-lucid)
Vividness: Intense. (Chain FAs)
Stability: Varied dramatically.
Dream Comments: Wow. Whatever I expected, it was not this. The feel was exactly like when you have a raging fever and you cycle between overwhelming and surreal dreams and a state near ISP. I went in with doubts but the feel of it was totally unlike ordinary dreams.

Felt aroused at one point and got a spontaneous erection without any mental stimulus even. WILDing was turbo-charged, extremely vivid hypnagogia that was almost like watching a dream, including sexual imagery, and a Starwars lightsaber duel Very suddenly I felt that menthol inertia everyone's been talking about, my body suddenly felt leaden, but didn't remain aware for the transition.

I seemed to spend the time from 7:30, when I must have drifted off, to 9:30, when my alarm went off, constantly dreaming. The content was on the verge of nightmarish, with a maintained sense of threat and dread. The plot had a completely wonky internal logic and was full of surrealism and non-sequitors. The whole feel of it was like when I took salvia for the first (and so far only) time, but without the hysterical giggling.

The nightmarish feel was overwhelming to the point that my 'nightmare escape mechanism' from childhood kicked in and I became prelucid but instead of taking control I just tried to wake up. Here my old enemy the chain false awakening reared its ugly head and I had a few episodes of FAs and waking sleep paralysis w/ intruder before finally waking.

Huge recall, about 6 dreams worth of material (but completely disjointed, it's like fever dreams that don't make sense to anyone but the dreamer).


---------

On an unrelated note, can I suggest that rather than quantify things like lucidity and recall (which vary according to individual differences between dreamers), we carry out more of a 'content analysis', looking for the things that characterise menthol dreams; sex, surrealism, intensity, nightmarishness, etc.?

^ Sounds like one hell of a night bro! Those Halls are STRONG!

Fri May 3rd 2012

Dose: Vitamin B6 (10 mg) Menthodex (x2) = ?? (0.36 % w/w)
Side Effects: Insomnia (See note.)
Sleep Duration: 5.25 hrs before/ 2.25-3.25 hrs after
WBTB: Yes (38 min)
Lucid: yes (note: in ‘lower-case’)
Vividness: Average to good
Stability: Very good
Dream Comments: It took me nearly an hour to drop off to sleep post WBTB, probably due to me expecting a difficult day IWL, plus the ambient sunlight would be a factor rather than the supplements used.
I did wonder about the level/nature of lucidity/dream awareness initially, but it was an emotionally charged memorable dream nevertheless.

HI. Lyserge. Seeing Dad (DILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Highlander

^ Sounds like one hell of a night bro! Those Halls are STRONG!

It was a memorable first experiment.

I've been looking for galantamine alternatives as it is prescription only in the UK and I don't want to order it to my Uni halls (shit gets lost in the post), so I've been looking at alternatives. Has anyone experimented with Ginkgo Biloba? (Alyzarin?) It's used with Alzheimer's like galantamine and is a memory/cognitive aid.

I did, however, get my hands on B5 and Choline, gonna try them in conjunction with 3 Hall's tonight.

Hey, hey, guys, peppermint oil capsules! Wouldn't this be the easiest/most economical way of ingesting menthol?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Hey, hey, guys, peppermint oil capsules! Wouldn't this be the easiest/most economical way of ingesting menthol?

This looks like a great deal. Roughly the same price as buying it in liquid form, obviously a lot easier to take. I'll be ordering it one of these days considering it's been such a harsh winter and there is no chance I could distil even a ml of peppermint.

I'm kinda annoyed that it's been so cold lately, peppermint should have been growing for a month now and all there are, are only little tiny baby plants. I've been wanting to use my distillary so bad but I can't cause nothing is ready yet.

I can't wait to start using st johns worth again. People used to crush the leaves and place the oil in a vial because it turned bright red and when applied to a wound it would heal it faster. It looks really cool and it practically grows natural almost everywhere.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

This looks like a great deal. Roughly the same price as buying it in liquid form, obviously a lot easier to take. I'll be ordering it one of these days considering it's been such a harsh winter and there is no chance I could distil even a ml of peppermint.

I'm kinda annoyed that it's been so cold lately, peppermint should have been growing for a month now and all there are, are only little tiny baby plants. I've been wanting to use my distillary so bad but I can't cause nothing is ready yet.

I can't wait to start using st johns worth again. People used to crush the leaves and place the oil in a vial because it turned bright red and when applied to a wound it would heal it faster. It looks really cool and it practically grows natural almost everywhere.

Tell me about it! I'm in Devon and there are loads of bare trees here!

I'm going to get peppermint, valerian and St. John's wort capsules tomorrow (possibly ginkgo to experiment with it's memory aid properties)

I never thought I would get the supplement bug so bad.

I'm not sure about Ginkgo though, from what I've seen you need to take it over a few days for it to take effect.

Also, can anyone remember the menthol upper limit off the top of their heads? I'm not sure whether to get the 200mg or 50mg capsules of peppermint oil. :/ I suppose it depends on the menthol content per capsule.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Tell me about it! I'm in Devon and there are loads of bare trees here!

I'm going to get peppermint, valerian and St. John's wort capsules tomorrow (possibly ginkgo to experiment with it's memory aid properties)

I never thought I would get the supplement bug so bad.

I'm not sure about Ginkgo though, from what I've seen you need to take it over a few days for it to take effect.

Also, can anyone remember the menthol upper limit off the top of their heads? I'm not sure whether to get the 200mg or 50mg capsules of peppermint oil. :/ I suppose it depends on the menthol content per capsule.

By upper limit do you mean the LD50 (lethal dose for half the population)?
If you do than the lowest figures I found where around 50mg/kg of body weight which would work out as around 3-4g of menthol needed to kill an average human (or at least severely hurt him). Some places state that you need to take almost 10 or even 20g to be affected but I like to play it safe.

I would get the 200mg menthol capsules due to their stronger effect, as long you take them in 2-3 day spaces the menthol can be removed from your body without showing effects.

Thanks for the info. Should I leave similar spaces between b5, choline, valerian root, st. John's wort, for them to leave the system? Can you become desensitised to the effect of choline, for instance?

Dose: WBTB: x3 Hall's Extra Strong (33-57mg), 500mg B5, 500mg Choline Bitartrate, 500mg Inositol
Side Effects: Insomnia for over an hour (past the peak plasma time for choline, unfortunately)
Sleep Duration: ~10 hours
WBTB: 6am, 3 hours prior sleep, 30 minutes duration.
Lucid: No.
Vividness: Tactile, violence, intimacy, colour saturation.
Stability: N/A
Dream Comments: Bit of a failed attempt, remember about 4 dreams in all although 3 could be better termed as fragments. One dream was one of those 'fall-in-love-with-random-DC' dreams, as per previous observations of menthol's aphrodisiac properties. Falling asleep I was again horny and felt waves of heaviness and numbness that never quite led to a WILD (although menthol seems to greatly increase WILD progression for me), HI was less vivid (insomnia).

My choline tablets are half and half choline and inositol. I've done some reading and inositol is used for treatment of panic attacks, and my dreams were much less nightmarish this time. Perhaps it acts on the amygdala? I think Alyzarin may have speculated on menthol being synergistic with inositol? Perhaps inositol curbs some of the darkness that comes with menthol? Hopefully I'll get a clearer picture when I can experiment without insomnia.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Thanks for the info. Should I leave similar spaces between b5, choline, valerian root, st. John's wort, for them to leave the system? Can you become desensitised to the effect of choline, for instance?

Yes you probably should. I think b5 and choline are pretty much the same in terms of usage as menthol from what I've seen so far. I've never taken them myself though. Valerian root and st johns wort should be taken differently and more sparingly from what I remember, especially the latter. I know that some people have quite a bad reaction to st johns wort so it might be an idea to start with a small dose and only try taking it once or twice a week. I'm not sure on Valerian root. I know that you can take a huge load of inositol without any side effects.

Well I got 120 200mg 'rapid release softgel' capsules of peppermint oil along with 30 capsules of St. John's wort and 30 capsules of valerian. The peppermint says to take 1-2 caps daily, 400mg of peppermint oil 0_o that would be one hell of a menthol dream.

Yeah I've read about some of the seratonin altering effects of SJW, I probably should be cautious as I'm a mood-swingy sort of person anyway. I'm avoiding 5-htp until further research sheds more light on it.

I got the valerian root caps as Canis seemed to be having such positive results using it in combination with menthol.

But I'll take a couple of days off now.

Everyone: Make sure you read the red part!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Dose: Pre-bed: 100mg 5-HTP, 5g fish oil WBTB: 2xGalantamind (8mg galantamine, choline, B5), 300mg Alpha-GPC, 200mg L-theanine, 3 bags peppermint tea, 1 bag green tea
Side Effects: None.
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
WBTB: Yes. (30 minutes)
Lucid: Yes!!
Vividness: Very high.
Stability: High
Dream Comments: Possibly the coolest lucid dream of my life.

This was my experiment with combining three of my favorite supplements: galantamine, menthol, and caffeine. I was running a bit of a balancing act -- I wanted to get the dream- and imagination-enhancing effects of menthol without becoming amorous. (I was planning on summoning a female DV member and didn't want to have any unwise impulses.) Therefore, I dialed menthol back to 3 bags of peppermint tea, a dose at which I'd never experienced the side effect of "reproductive impulsiveness", but one that had given me a lot of cool dreams back in the day.

The result was a ton of imaginative, adventurous, non-sexy lucid dreaming. Control was good (though not perfect) and I pulled down about 25-30 minutes of LD time.

Of note, too, was the addition of caffeine. This led to a relatively smooth entry into the dream via WILD and (according to science) suppression of deep sleep. The combination of G, menthol, and just a touch of caffeine looks very promising for nice, long WILDs! This was an awesome night of dreaming. I'll definitely be trying this combo again!

The lucid dream: The Night of the Weredog - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Awesome, I'm glad to hear it! Nice use of supplement combos there, this is all coming together quite well.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Alyzarin: I've read the whole thread and your research is astounding (I like the uncompromising approach to posting chemical and neuroanatomy jargon), do you have a career in neuroscience?

Thanks, Ctharlhie! I'm actually just a college sophomore with no set major though lol. I've never had a job in my life, though I'm planning to get one hopefully in the summer and maybe through next semester too instead of taking classes just so I can build up some experience....

Honestly, I just have too much free time to look this stuff up.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Dose: Two Hall's Extra Strong (22-38mg depending on your source), I take multivitamins so my B5, B6 and B12 levels are a bit over the daily recommended amount (but not at toxicity level, of course).
Side Effects: Nope.
Sleep Duration: ~10 hours
WBTB: 45 minute.
Lucid: No (Pre-lucid)
Vividness: Intense. (Chain FAs)
Stability: Varied dramatically.
Dream Comments: Wow. Whatever I expected, it was not this. The feel was exactly like when you have a raging fever and you cycle between overwhelming and surreal dreams and a state near ISP. I went in with doubts but the feel of it was totally unlike ordinary dreams.

Felt aroused at one point and got a spontaneous erection without any mental stimulus even. WILDing was turbo-charged, extremely vivid hypnagogia that was almost like watching a dream, including sexual imagery, and a Starwars lightsaber duel Very suddenly I felt that menthol inertia everyone's been talking about, my body suddenly felt leaden, but didn't remain aware for the transition.

I seemed to spend the time from 7:30, when I must have drifted off, to 9:30, when my alarm went off, constantly dreaming. The content was on the verge of nightmarish, with a maintained sense of threat and dread. The plot had a completely wonky internal logic and was full of surrealism and non-sequitors. The whole feel of it was like when I took salvia for the first (and so far only) time, but without the hysterical giggling.

The nightmarish feel was overwhelming to the point that my 'nightmare escape mechanism' from childhood kicked in and I became prelucid but instead of taking control I just tried to wake up. Here my old enemy the chain false awakening reared its ugly head and I had a few episodes of FAs and waking sleep paralysis w/ intruder before finally waking.

Huge recall, about 6 dreams worth of material (but completely disjointed, it's like fever dreams that don't make sense to anyone but the dreamer).

I love this thread. I'm glad you had a powerful experience for your first time so you could see what it's like! Too bad it was so dark though, unless that's your thing! But now at least you've got a good idea of what we're dealing with.

And that salvia giggling is weird right!? Like... unnatural. Made me feel like I was being forced to be insane.... It disappears with tolerance though, very quickly.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

On an unrelated note, can I suggest that rather than quantify things like lucidity and recall (which vary according to individual differences between dreamers), we carry out more of a 'content analysis', looking for the things that characterise menthol dreams; sex, surrealism, intensity, nightmarishness, etc.?

We're far enough into the experiment that we've got a good amount of detail about how it effects lucidity and vividness now, so I wouldn't be opposed to it.... We should take a vote, though.

Anyone have any objections? Or any ideas on how specifically to reformat it?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Has anyone experimented with Ginkgo Biloba? (Alyzarin?)

For dreams? No, but I have taken it for memory purposes before. Both just by itself and to combat the effects of an anticholinergic deliriant, which produce a simulated non-lucidity. I actually did keep myself grounded more easily through it, but it's hard to say how much it actually contributed for sure.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Thanks for the info. Should I leave similar spaces between b5, choline, valerian root, st. John's wort, for them to leave the system? Can you become desensitised to the effect of choline, for instance?

Yes, acetylcholine receptors will gain tolerance anything else. You'll actually become desensitized to just about everything, even vitamins (aside from for health reasons).

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

My choline tablets are half and half choline and inositol. I've done some reading and inositol is used for treatment of panic attacks, and my dreams were much less nightmarish this time. Perhaps it acts on the amygdala? I think Alyzarin may have speculated on menthol being synergistic with inositol? Perhaps inositol curbs some of the darkness that comes with menthol? Hopefully I'll get a clearer picture when I can experiment without insomnia.

Actually, it was that inositol trisphosphate was a player in the downstream effects of kappa-opioid receptor activation. How inositol supplementation might effect that, I'm not sure.... I wouldn't doubt that they could go together well, though. Inositol positively regulates serotonin and dopamine receptors, so it could add some happiness like you said and possibly enhance the sexual and maybe vividness-related effects of the menthol.