Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Sounds like a good night! You keep mentioning the erections... have you ever considered that it might be because of the vasodilation that I mentioned before? It's possible that how hard you get could be a sign of how well the menthol's working.

Possibly, as I was using the Peppermint tea at the time. This might account for the one or two after late at night/mid morning?
A 'full bladder' did cause one, which made me quite randy!
However erections and dreams (physiologically) do go hand in hand (a bad pun there, not intentional!) which explains the well known 'morning glory' effect.

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I think i feel that way because the others in this thread didn't get so many lucids since the tests started... and they might think that i'm lying or something... But after all i shouldn't care about that, lol.

No. My Ld rate INCREASED on the first week of the experiment!!!

This is an experiment - not TOTM!

If anybody lies then all they are doing is kidding themselves.

Originally Posted by RobStar

No. My Ld rate INCREASED on the first week of the experiment!!!

This is an experiment - not TOTM!

If anybody lies then all they are doing is kidding themselves.

Yeah, i just tend to care more about what people think about me than i should

Originally Posted by littlezoe

Yeah, i just tend to care more about what people think about me than i should

No, your results speak for themselves. You should be proud of what you have done so far. We are all trying to help each other here, which is a good thing. A 'win win' situation.

My LD rate has dropped this week, but I know it will come back. However the main thing is I have learn't more about how my body and mind works. Everything takes time. LD are a bit of an enigma most times.

Regards.

Dose: 2 York Peppermint Patties
Side Effects: Maybe some insomnia (expected, though) and a mildly upset stomach upon waking
Sleep Duration: ~3.25 hours after dosing
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: High
Stability: High
Dream Comments: Given the fact that my recall the last few days has been poor from partying, these dreams were actually extremely vivid, so that's cool. The second one also had a lot of really interesting, trippy visual stuff... it was pretty neat. Not to mention the sexual themes returned, as well as the libido feeling at the end and upon waking. :3 I also got hypnagogia reaaaally easily... should've tried a WILD. >w<

DJ Entry - Too Distracted, Broken Structures

Supplement Dose: 2 York Peppermint Patties

#1 - Too Distracted [Non-Lucid]

The main thing I remember about this dream is that my dad accidentally chopped off his fingertip. (Though there was no blood throughout the entire dream.... Definitely didn't notice that until I woke up.) I ran all around the house looking for band-aids for him so we could graft it back on. But strangely, almost all of the lights in the house were off, and I tried four or five switches in a row and they wouldn't work! How odd! () Getting frustrated, I ran back out to the kitchen where the light was already on so we could see what we were doing. During all of this, including before my dad had injured himself, I was also trying to hide bunch of OxyContin that R had left on the living room table, easily at least if not more than a hundred pills. I ended up shoving most of them into a Ziploc bag and stashing it in a drawer in my room before I could be noticed though, but honestly I don't think my dad would have really noticed at the time. Not long after we got to the kitchen, I woke up.

After this dream, until I finally got out of bed, I was getting very vivid hypnagogia very easily, just accompanying all of my random in-bed thoughts. One that I remember clearly is walking down a random street considering that previous dream, half knowing that I was really in bed but not really caring. I never sank into a WILD or anything because of them, though. I also remember something about Dexter's Laboratory... which I only remember right this second while typing it, and have no idea what it was connected to.

#2 - Broken Structures [Non-Lucid]

During this dream there was some kind of party going on at my house, and my house also seemed to be fused with a forest at... incomprehensible angles. That's really the best description I'm going to be able to give it. I remember that I was trying to find someone, but then I got distracted when I noticed that the door to my bathroom was busted and wouldn't close properly, but there were tons of people over and I had a very strong urge to masturbate. >.> I got fed up with it for a little bit and sat in the foresty part of my house, and some trees started turning sideways and then multiplying and drawing strange circle patterns with their copies, it was a very bizarre visual. Soon I decided to give the bathroom another shot, and I realized that I could get the door to stay closed but I just couldn't lock it. I decided it was worth the risk. X) I got in there and stripped naked, then I looked at my reflection in the mirror. First of all my reflection wasn't naked, but again I appeared to have taken on the form of a supermodel, and... well, as I stared into the mirror my vision was fractured into sort of a collage of seeing myself from different angles and apparently different situations, and it all had sort of a shattered-glass look to it. It's hard to put into words exactly, but it was very psychedelic... I've had it happen while tripping before. All of the different supermodel 'me's were writhing around in pleasure and making various sexy faces and positions, and there was sort of an overwhelming feeling of dissociation or being pulled into this. I was able to snap out of it and my libido was shooting up through the roof, so I tried getting ready to masturbate but the bathroom was arranged in a really ridiculous way that made it practically impossible, and the frustration of trying to figure it out made me wake up. :c

Oh menthol, I missed you.

----------

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I think i feel that way because the others in this thread didn't get so many lucids since the tests started... and they might think that i'm lying or something... But after all i shouldn't care about that, lol.

As for today... my doubts were still there... no lucid The details are the same as yesterday, so i didn't bother to fill the template for today.

I only have 3 Negros left now, but i asked my mom to buy another pack today, so hopefully i can continue

I need to get back into that hyped state i was in before... i want more lucids this week :/

I have to agree with RobStar, and I don't think anyone doubts you. We're all just trying to get the most success we can out of this right now, so just worry about yourself for now. We'll get it all figured out in the end.

So as far as motivation goes.... You seem to be in a situation where you know you'll get lucid as long as you believe you will. How can anything be more motivational than that?

Originally Posted by RobStar

Possibly, as I was using the Peppermint tea at the time. This might account for the one or two after late at night/mid morning?
A 'full bladder' did cause one, which made me quite randy!
However erections and dreams (physiologically) do go hand in hand (a bad pun there, not intentional!) which explains the well known 'morning glory' effect.

I know, that's what I was referring to. If I'm right about menthol, it may actually be increasing the mechanism by which erections correlate to REM sleep, which means that the more it works, the more likely it is you'd wake up with one. I certainly wake up horny every single time I use it.

Thur July 19th 2012

Dose: x2 Menthol cough drops = 10-20 mg?, x1 cup (0.5pt) Apple Juice, Breakfast cereal with milk (Containing 0.6 to 1.0 mg B6)
Side Effects: Bad Stomach (Gastric, etc)
Sleep Duration: approx 5 hrs/3.25 hrs after (Total = 8.25 hrs)
WBTB: Yes (55 min)
Lucid: No
Vividness: Typical
Stability: Typical
Dream Comments: Sexual and sensual (see food) with a (underlying) memorable theme in one very long big multi-faceted dream. A deeper sleep noted. (N.B: I had to take 500mg soluble Paracetamol (11.15pm) along with previous doses yesterday due to having a bad migraine type headache all day.)

Richard Branson and Art. The Gallery. Food and the Talc episode - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: 4 drops of Halls Extra Strong (they say it has 19,7mg of menthol and 9,8mg of eucalyptus oil per piece o__o)
Side Effects: Durr..none?
Sleep Duration: 9 hours.
WBTB: Nein.
Lucid: Nope.
Vividness: Quite high.
Stability: Normal.
Dream Comments: It's just a fragment. I don't think I had any scary dreams..Recall is being a bitch.

There must've been some epic dream I've forgotten. That was a huge dose..

Also got some Lockets Honey & Lemon, but it's pretty weak, menthol 9,7mg and eucalyptus 9,2mg. It has a much more enjoyable taste, though.

*shudders at the strong menthol taste*

9,7mg menthol is not weak at all Considering that most have way under that. I'm also sure that the Extra Strong Halls is only near 12mg, because someone posted it's dose in this thread earlier.

Has anyone considered to possibility of a placebo effect here? As in the case of littlezoe, It sees when she doubts herself she does not get lucid. Just a thought I hope I'm wrong. With that said I am going to continue with the experiment (experiments are fun). From what I seem I definitely get more vivid dreams, not quite lucid yet though.

Also, I have not noticed any difference in arousal at night. Seems normal but healthy there. I think with most of you is has to do with your age and or relationship status. I get the feeling most of you are a lot younger than I.


Dose: 1/8 teaspoon peppermint oil with a cup of cold tea
Side Effects: None - perhaps mild constipation
Sleep Duration: woke after 2 hr 44 min of dose
WBTB:Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness:Mild
Stability:Good
Dream Comments:Long epic dream. Tried MILD but only continued the dream non-lucid.

Hmph. Either way, the taste pretty strong. Makes me shudder.

Would suck if this whole menthol thing was a placebo >.>

Originally Posted by Xanous

Has anyone considered to possibility of a placebo effect here? As in the case of littlezoe, It sees when she doubts herself she does not get lucid. Just a thought I hope I'm wrong. With that said I am going to continue with the experiment (experiments are fun). From what I seem I definitely get more vivid dreams, not quite lucid yet though.

Yes, sure like with a lot of things there is always a chance of a placebo effect. However with me then I have noticed an increase in visuals, etc. My body does get tired of the constant wbtb I impose, for example I got the mother of all headaches yesterday which slowed me right down.
It all boils down to the individual, and what works for them. I find AJ helps me, but like with anything the keyword is 'helps' as nothing is guaranteed, etc.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Also, I have not noticed any difference in arousal at night. Seems normal but healthy there. I think with most of you is has to do with your age and or relationship status. I get the feeling most of you are a lot younger than I.

In answer to your last question. Yes I'm in a relationship so I probably let a bit of steam off in that respect if you know what I mean. In regard to age, well as my title above my avatar will give you a clue.
Remember you are only as old as you feel. Age doesn't come into it when dreaming. It is no barrier.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Has anyone considered to possibility of a placebo effect here? As in the case of littlezoe, It sees when she doubts herself she does not get lucid. Just a thought I hope I'm wrong. With that said I am going to continue with the experiment (experiments are fun). From what I seem I definitely get more vivid dreams, not quite lucid yet though.

I had thoughts about that before. I can see the possibility after these experiences that my lucids stop when i start doubting it

My dreams are also not more vivid because of the menthol.... maybe you get what you focus on? I focused on getting lucids and believed that it brings them and it did. Others wanted the vivid effect... you know what i mean...

But i hope this is a wrong theory.

Originally Posted by RobStar

Yes, sure like with a lot of things there is always a chance of a placebo effect. However with me then I have noticed an increase in visuals, etc. My body does get tired of the constant wbtb I impose, for example I got the mother of all headaches yesterday which slowed me right down.
It all boils down to the individual, and what works for them. I find AJ helps me, but like with anything the keyword is 'helps' as nothing is guaranteed, etc.

Yes the constant WBTB is making me more tired especially during the week. I know I should take a break but I am afraid I will miss out. LOL. And yes I agree we are all different and nothing is guaranteed.

Originally Posted by RobStar

In answer to your last question. Yes I'm in a relationship so I probably let a bit of steam off in that respect if you know what I mean. In regard to age, well as my title above my avatar will give you a clue.
Remember you are only as old as you feel. Age doesn't come into it when dreaming. It is no barrier.

LOL yes I noticed you were probably older than even myself, 32. I was thinking more of when I was a horny teenager. heehe.

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I had thoughts about that before. I can see the possibility after these experiences that my lucids stop when i start doubting it
My dreams are also not more vivid because of the menthol.... maybe you get what you focus on? I focused on getting lucids and believed that it brings them and it did. Others wanted the vivid effect... you know what i mean...

But i hope this is a wrong theory.

Yeah I see your point. Perhaps you are right. Its hard to tell with any lucid aid. But if it works then who care about placebo. What matters is if it works. But then again all this would be unnecessary if it was in fact a placebo. Either way the cost and effort is minimal as long as we don't over do it. Perhaps a break will be needed at some point? I notice that a lot of us are having stomach issues and I wonder if eating candy just before bed will damage teeth. Thats why I prefer the oil.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Yeah I see your point. Perhaps you are right. Its hard to tell with any lucid aid. But if it works then who care about placebo. What matters is if it works. But then again all this would be unnecessary if it was in fact a placebo. Either way the cost and effort is minimal as long as we don't over do it. Perhaps a break will be needed at some point? I notice that a lot of us are having stomach issues and I wonder if eating candy just before bed will damage teeth. Thats why I prefer the oil.

True, but there is the thing that when you stop believing in it, it won't work anymore... The wrath of placebo.

I feel like this is what happens to me right now.... but i try to reform this belief.

As for candy maybe damaging teeth... i never cared about that and ate a lot of candy, but i don't have a single tooth with a hole or anything like that They are all fine, so i don't worry.

Originally Posted by littlezoe

True, but there is the thing that when you stop believing in it, it won't work anymore... The wrath of placebo.

I feel like this is what happens to me right now.... but i try to reform this belief.

As for candy maybe damaging teeth... i never cared about that and ate a lot of candy, but i don't have a single tooth with a hole or anything like that They are all fine, so i don't worry.

I still don't think it's placebo due to the fact of having increased visuals, better recall, longer dreams with storylines. It may be that our bodies get used to the routines we impose or the chemical itself over time?


MENTHOL


I believe!

Originally Posted by RobStar

I still don't think it's placebo due to the fact of having increased visuals, better recall, longer dreams with storylines. It may be that our bodies get used to the routines we impose or the chemical itself over time?


MENTHOL


I believe!

I you probably hit the nail on the head with that one.


and that picture is freaking hilarious! I want to steal it! LOL!

Originally Posted by RobStar

I still don't think it's placebo due to the fact of having increased visuals, better recall, longer dreams with storylines. It may be that our bodies get used to the routines we impose or the chemical itself over time?

I don't have increased visuals or better recall. I have long dreams with storylines often without menthol, so i don't see a difference in that. So it's worrying me.

But still, i try to believe


As for today, i used up my last 3 Negros, because my mom couldn't buy another pack... I didn't get lucid... The details were the same as before, so no need to use the template.
I think i'll report back on how my dreaming goes without menthol in the next few days, because i basically took it almost every single day since a while now.

Fri July 20th 2012

Dose: x1 Peppermint tea, x4 Menthol cough drops = 20-40 mg?, x1 cup (0.25pt) Apple Juice and Water.*(Staged)
Side Effects: Very light sleep
Sleep Duration: 5 hrs/ 2.5 hrs after (Total = 7.5 hrs)
WBTB: Yes (62 min) 15 min exercise
Lucid: YES
Vividness: Average
Stability: Average
Dream Comments: No early dreams reported. Odd (sexy) snippet. Some reverie and visuals. Libido higher. Dream incubation, (unintended.) A ‘floating’ (OBEish like) pleasant sensation during lucid dream with accompanied ‘wave’ of energy.
Note: I increased my levels of dopamine? Possibly in two ways; the one via physical exercise, the other via a FAP.
The exercise I found helped me reduce the gastric issues I have with the Menthol drops.
*( 11.40 pm x1 cup, 11.50 pm x1 drop, 2.03 am x1 drop, WBTB x2 drops)

CD tunes, lyrics. My living room and floating about in the dark - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: 1/4 teaspoon peppermint oil
Side Effects: mild constipation
Sleep Duration: unknown
WBTB:Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness:Low
Stability:Low
Dream Comments:I had really low recall lastnight. I only got fragments in my DJ. Also I dont know if it has been since the menthol (I will have to look) or if it is just some sick obsession but I have consistently been dreaming of shit and/or bathrooms. WTF? I now try to RC when I go to a bathroom.

I am considering taking a break. I wonder if menthol only helps for a period and the tapers off? Has anyone else felt this way?

Dose: 3 Lockets (9,7mg/piece) and 3 Halls (12mg/piece..?) = 65,1mg
Side Effects: Nothing?
Sleep Duration: ~11 hours
WBTB: Nu'uh
Lucid: Nope.
Vividness: High
Stability: Quite high
Dream Comments: I'm having a lot of music-related dreams lately. Maybe menthol could be used to incubate dreams more effectively? D:

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around so much lately but it's been a really busy few days, and I'm about to be housesitting for someone without a computer until Sunday morning, so I'm going to be able to get on even less. :T Keep up the good work, though! I love all the progress, and I'll try to keep dosing myself. Sorry this response is kind of short, I'm actually in a hurry right now as well. I'll touch base a bit more when I have more time.

As for the placebo debate, come on guys, we've been over this a few times now. >w< Just keep doing what you're doing for now, and if it works, then it works. Eventually we'll have enough data to know whether or not it's legit, but from what I've seen so far, I'd say it has definite effects, and more than likely the people who haven't gotten any yet either just don't respond strongly to it or haven't found the right dose yet. Tolerances will vary, especially for a chemical which is already added to so many things we ingest, and not every dream enhancer works for everyone. I can say with a good amount of certainty that it works for me, as it's changed the feel of my dreams in the exact same way every time I've taken it, and it's not just a "general dream enhancement" feeling. I've experimented before with melatonin, 5-HTP, choline, piracetam, aniracetam, vitamin B6, galantamine, diphenhydramine, Calea zacatechichi, mugwort, damiana, St. John's wort, Salvia divinorum, Amanita muscaria, and valerian root, and probably a few more that just aren't coming to mind right now, so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

A couple things I couldn't help responding to more directly:

Originally Posted by Xanous

Also I dont know if it has been since the menthol (I will have to look) or if it is just some sick obsession but I have consistently been dreaming of shit and/or bathrooms. WTF? I now try to RC when I go to a bathroom.

I am considering taking a break. I wonder if menthol only helps for a period and the tapers off? Has anyone else felt this way?

Maybe your brain is just incorporating the stomach side effects into your dreams?

And it will likely build tolerance... which everyone responds differently to. If you think it's working less than before, definitely take a break.

Originally Posted by Cookieh

I'm having a lot of music-related dreams lately. Maybe menthol could be used to incubate dreams more effectively? D:

I actually wouldn't doubt this, as it makes my visualization skyrocket. Maybe you should do some tests.

Sorry I couldn't say more, I really need to head out now. See you guys in a while!

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

As for the placebo debate, come on guys, we've been over this a few times now.
A couple things I couldn't help responding to more directly:

Ok that's my fault. Like I said, I haven't taken the time to read all the posts. So, sorry about that.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Maybe your brain is just incorporating the stomach side effects into your dreams?
And it will likely build tolerance... which everyone responds differently to. If you think it's working less than before, definitely take a break.

I thought maybe the same thing but I have always had crazy bathroom dreams just not so frequent. So, who knows. It IS a strong dreamsign right however and I will run with it if I get the mind to.

Also, I agree with tolerance. I will take a break tonight and maybe the next day or two try and different form of menthol. I bought some peppermint tea and 10g menthol cough drops today. I plan to give those a shot later.

Although I keep seeing Sageous' words in my mind about all this and I agree with him for the most part. So, I am feeling a bit conflicted right now.

Originally Posted by Sageous

In time I realized that it wasn’t the stuff that made even the weakest LD’s tick; it was careful attention to the fundamentals.

Am I playing Devil's Advocate? Nope. I just want to be reasonable and consider everything. So, don't any of you let me influence what you are doing here. I think menthol is a good thing just not THE answer. Still, I'll play along because I do like experiments.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Ok that's my fault. Like I said, I haven't taken the time to read all the posts. So, sorry about that.

Don't worry about it, I'm sure someone else will bring it up soon enough.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Although I keep seeing Sageous' words in my mind about all this and I agree with him for the most part. So, I am feeling a bit conflicted right now.

Am I playing Devil's Advocate? Nope. I just want to be reasonable and consider everything. So, don't any of you let me influence what you are doing here. I think menthol is a good thing just not THE answer. Still, I'll play along because I do like experiments.

Actually, I prefer my dreams unenhanced. Menthol is definitely not the answer, it's not even my favorite dream aid (yet ). I treat dream enhancers and lucid aids like I treat drugs: for fun and experimentation, not as a replacement for regular techniques. Even with aids, you should definitely still be practicing the fundamentals. The thing is, I can already get lucid pretty frequently when I put my mind to it; I used to get lucid twice a night several nights a week. The reason for my exploration is not so much to attain lucidity but to see the specific ways in which these substances alter my dreams. That's why I'm glad that people are becoming lucid from menthol, but I'm personally much more excited about the sexual effects.

Yeah I can see your reasoning there.

Oh and I had another poop dream without the menthol. So that wasn't it. LOL! I even thought to quesiton if I was dreaming but I didn't follow through.