Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Sun July 15th 2012

Dose: 0.0 mg (***ZERO MENTHOL***)
Side Effects: Insomnia (milder), Stomach ache (slight)
Sleep Duration: 5 hrs / 7.75 hrs total
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: Typical
Stability: Typical
Dream Comments: Dream recall average. Lack of reverie and associated visuals. Experienced a really negative depressing dream.

The Neighbour and the depressing Father Christmas dream - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


Well tomorrow's the start of a new week. So I think I will crack open a box of Peppermint tea, and see how I fare on that?

Dose: I was getting ready to suck on 29.4 mg of Halls Lemon Cough Drops (9.8 mg per tablet), but I had to spit it out when I realized I have to wake up early for groceries. x.x....So ZERO for me too.

Side Effects: None

Sleep Duration: Before the failed WBTB, probably 4-6 hours, I lost track of time when I slept.

WBTB: No

Lucid: No

Vividness: I can't really scale this anymore lol

Stability: Meh, I don't know.

Dream Comments: I actually had one dream that I could apply to waking life, which was to set my clock back one hour because I'm not in Canada's time zone anymore. The rest involved my subconscious preventing me to engage in sexual acts, and then the other one was just too random.

Alyzarin Grinds Me?, Giochemistry, Running on Track Field - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

This seems to be one of the most successful research threads! Keep up the good work everyone!

I'm on track again, lol.

Dose: 3 Negros (unknown dose)
Side Effects: Nothing
Sleep Duration: Around 50 minutes after taking candy
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: Yes
Vividness: Worse than usual, it was really blurry mostly
Stability: Worse than usual, it wanted to collapse a lot
Dream Comments:

DJ Link: Terror, Unstable Dream Ends in Kisses - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I had 2 lucids this day, the first in my entry is from earlier during the night, not affected by the menthol.

The second one... well.. it was really disappointing because of it's unstable and blurry nature... I still think that it's not related to the menthol that it was that bad, because some of my Negro Lucids were better quality...

So far to me it seems like the menthol helps me in being more aware, which is the most noticeable effect. It might also be related to the sexual/sensual themes.

Mon July 16th 2012

Dose: 2 Cups (x1 Before bed, x1 at WBTB)
Side Effects: Generally ok (See comments)
Sleep Duration: 4.5 hrs / 8.5 hrs
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: Typical
Stability: Typical
Dream Comments: Reverie and visuals. Average to good recall. Stomach more settled and relaxed. RC done. Erection due to a full bladder.

A Lawnmower. The spooky TV, plus more Reverie - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I'm so happy this thread continues to progress even without me. >w< I spent the last couple days in a drunken-then-hungover fugue, so I haven't dosed again yet, but I may tonight. I had a lot of recall last night, but the dreams themselves were fairly regular (though not unexciting ). I'm looking forward to doing another test!

(Also, I wonder when those crystals are going to arrive....)

Originally Posted by Xanous

OK So I don't have the time or patience to read all the posts but it looks like this is working. Right? Worth a try? What's the over all consensus so far? I have some peppermint oil. Would that do?

Yeah, as was said, it seems that the menthol cough drops have been varied for people so far, but the successful attempts seem to have fairly consistent results. Peppermint tea/oil is probably a better way to ensure success, with really the main downside being we don't actually know the exact dose of menthol. But, don't worry about that for now... just do what works best for you. And welcome to the experiment.

Originally Posted by littlezoe

Dose: 3 Negros (unknown dose)
Side Effects: Nothing, not even stomachache, weird
Sleep Duration: Around 1 hour 40 minutes after taking candy
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: Usual
Stability: Can't tell, wasn't lucid
Dream Comments:

Oh well... everything has to end once I couldn't get lucid today for some reason... But i guess i know why... I had doubts when i went back to bed, while i said it for sure on the days before.. It also took almost 2 hours to fall asleep fully, because i forgot to lower the blinds and there was too much light...

I can only remember one regular dream from after the WBTB and that was long. Some people wanted to kill me and my family was threatened too... it was somewhat futuristic as well... it was like the people didn't have rights anymore... this weird kind of 'police' could order everyone.

Well, just remember that there's no such thing as a dream enhancer that works the way you want it to 100% of the time! Overall, I'd say you've still had some pretty good success with it so far. Four in a row is better than I've done.

Originally Posted by RobStar

Sun July 15th 2012

Dose: 0.0 mg (***ZERO MENTHOL***)
Side Effects: Insomnia (milder), Stomach ache (slight)
Sleep Duration: 5 hrs / 7.75 hrs total
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: Typical
Stability: Typical
Dream Comments: Dream recall average. Lack of reverie and associated visuals. Experienced a really negative depressing dream.

The Neighbour and the depressing Father Christmas dream - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


Well tomorrow's the start of a new week. So I think I will crack open a box of Peppermint tea, and see how I fare on that?

I guess that's a good sign that the visuals and reverie went down. :O Definitely makes it seem like the menthol really is making a difference....

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I'm on track again, lol.

Dose: 3 Negros (unknown dose)
Side Effects: Nothing
Sleep Duration: Around 50 minutes after taking candy
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: Yes
Vividness: Worse than usual, it was really blurry mostly
Stability: Worse than usual, it wanted to collapse a lot
Dream Comments:

DJ Link: Terror, Unstable Dream Ends in Kisses - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I had 2 lucids this day, the first in my entry is from earlier during the night, not affected by the menthol.

The second one... well.. it was really disappointing because of it's unstable and blurry nature... I still think that it's not related to the menthol that it was that bad, because some of my Negro Lucids were better quality...

So far to me it seems like the menthol helps me in being more aware, which is the most noticeable effect. It might also be related to the sexual/sensual themes.

Alright, another lucid! I haven't read the entry yet, but I will soon, I'm juggling a few things right now. And so I guess that means you're still getting sensual effects. Who would've thought they'd appear this frequently....

Originally Posted by RobStar

Mon July 16th 2012

Dose: 2 Cups (x1 Before bed, x1 at WBTB)
Side Effects: Generally ok (See comments)
Sleep Duration: 4.5 hrs / 8.5 hrs
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: No
Vividness: Typical
Stability: Typical
Dream Comments: Reverie and visuals. Average to good recall. Stomach more settled and relaxed. RC done. Erection due to a full bladder.

A Lawnmower. The spooky TV, plus more Reverie - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

And they're back! I haven't read this one either yet, but I'll get to it and post there.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Yeah, as was said, it seems that the menthol cough drops have been varied for people so far, but the successful attempts seem to have fairly consistent results. Peppermint tea/oil is probably a better way to ensure success, with really the main downside being we don't actually know the exact dose of menthol. But, don't worry about that for now... just do what works best for you. And welcome to the experiment.

Thanks I don't know how long I will do this I am intrigued for now. It looks like everyone is following a certain format so I will try to keep it that way. I just measured the oil by teaspoon. I took the smallest measurement I could think of. Half of a 1/4 teaspoon. I took it like cough syrup and chased it with a little water.

Dose: 1/8 teaspoon peppermint oil
Side Effects: Wakefulness - There may be other factors at play so I cannot say it was the peppermint oil.
Sleep Duration: undetermined
WBTB: Yes - Quick WILD
Lucid: Partial
Vividness: Varied
Stability: Low
Dream Comments: I was able to manage a Quick WILD or DEILD WILD but had strange emotions causing me to FA.

I'm sorry I probably missed how much I should take to get possible results. Unfochunatly the only thing I could find is these Ricola Cough drops that only have 3.5mg per drop.

Originally Posted by DaveTheJoker

I'm sorry I probably missed how much I should take to get possible results. Unfochunatly the only thing I could find is these Ricola Cough drops that only have 3.5mg per drop.

It shouldn't make a huge difference. I usually drink tea with about 10g of mint leaves or so, seeing as mint only contains 0.25% menthol, I essentially only consume 25mg of menthol and 25g of menthone. So they should still be suitable.

Originally Posted by DaveTheJoker

I'm sorry I probably missed how much I should take to get possible results. Unfochunatly the only thing I could find is these Ricola Cough drops that only have 3.5mg per drop.

I was mostly taking about 29.1 mg. However I did try 63.2 mg and 88.2 mg respectively. However the latter were the extra strong menthol drops.
I did get a bit of gastric wind off them and sleeplessness. You were only allowed 10 in any 24hrs also.
So in your case that would equate at quite alot of Ricolas!

Menthol's Aphrodisiac Qualities Explained?
And More Support for the Involvement of Phenethylamine in Dreams

So, my latest research has brought me to some information which I find VERY interesting. All of these correlations of menthol with an increase in dreams with sexual themes, and that article about peppermint tea being used as an aphrodisiac in Greece, made me interested enough to look around and see if I could find an even better sex dream drug than menthol. At first I started looking more into prolactin-increasing drugs, as like I've said before I believe this is responsible for the sensual/"pure" side of the sex dreams, but I figured there had to be a more direct route to go about it than that. This eventually lead me back to an old interest of mine, yohimbine. Yohimbine has definite aphrodisiac qualities in people (though it can also cause anxiety, which would obviously limit how often those effects might show up in susceptible individuals), but just for the record, to anyone interested, it would make an absolutely atrocious dream drug, as it's a stimulant as well and even directly antagonizes D2 receptors (which blocks the formation of dreams). However, its sexual effects (and thankfully, not its anxiogenic effects) supposedly stem from its antagonism of alpha-2 adrenergic receptors.

The alpha-2 adrenergic receptor is a rather quirky little thing.... It has some seemingly paradoxical effects in the brain and body. Activation of it lowers levels of acetylcholine and catecholamines in the prefrontal cortex, but also causes vasoconstriction in the body and inhibits sexual function (especially erections). This is the exact opposite reaction that would normally be expected from those chemical changes, as vasoconstriction and inhibited function normally accompany the release of dopamine (a major catecholamine), like with stimulants and psychedelics. However, when you think about the fact that dopamine is involved in sexual stimulation, and obviously sexual function is important for sex... it actually makes perfect sense that there's a mechanism like this in the brain. It would also explain why stress, which increases levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine (adrenaline) and activates those receptors, has a negative impact on sex and masturbation. Now, in addition to those functions, activating the receptors also inhibits REM sleep, another bizarre reaction as normally dopaminergic supplements or drugs inhibit REM as well. But again, this makes sense if you consider that stress also weakens dreams. So, as you may have guessed, antagonizing it creates paradoxical effects as well, only in the opposite way... it increases the release of dopamine in the PFC, it causes vasodilation and libido-increasing effects (again, especially erections) in the body, and it enhances REM sleep.

Now, how does this all fit together? Well, think about it.... When you're dreaming, the dopaminergic part of the prefrontal cortex is active in full swing, despite the fact that dopamine normally wakes you up due to its effects on the body. REM sleep is also correlated with increased libido and erections. Lastly, I really hope I don't have to explain the relation to the enhancement of REM phases.... The point is, it is very likely that this blockade or low activity at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors is directly tied into REM sleep. But are you ready for the best part? Really? Do you think you can handle it? Alright, here it comes.... Phenethylamine is an antagonist at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors! Yes, that's right! Not only can phenethylamine explain the generation of dream states, deactivation of the pineal gland, euphoria and lowered inhibition of lucid dreaming, and cessation of motor controls by activating D2 and TAAR1 receptors, but it can in fact even account for the increase in dopaminergic activity and heightened state of libido and correlation with erections that comes with REM sleep!! With all of this in mind, if my theory about kappa-opioid receptors releasing phenethylamine is true, then it means that menthol would be enhancing normal REM libido effects just like it enhances the formation of dreams in general, and it'd be doing it through the same mechanism as yohimbine, a certified aphrodisiac! In fact, I even went scanning through trip reports and posts about salvia use (since it works primarily through kappa-opioid receptors), because this rung a bell... and yes, salvia trips do in fact seem to have a high chance of causing erections. X) And believe me, if you know anything about salvia, you'll know that this is not because the trips are particularly fun or sexy... it's just a physical effect. But in a dream (or any non-horrifying state of mind, unlike salvia) this doesn't apply, and it can definitely make you hornier! And just FYI, I know I keep mentioning erections a lot, but that's just because they're pretty good way to raise a flag (heh) for this type of effect... it applies equally to women.

So what have we learned from all this? Well, assuming that I actually know what the hell I'm talking about... it means that, first of all, a centrally-selective or at least non-stimulant alpha-2 adrenergic receptor antagonist would probably make for an excellent sex dream drug, and second, that menthol may actually have a legitimate reason to have these aphrodisiac qualities through these effects. And believe me, I'm going to find a way to test this out for myself, because this discovery of a potential class of sex dream drugs is far too interesting for me to pass up.

That's all for now!

I read through that, but didn't understand much other than that it has positive effects xD

But i'm up for any testing

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I read through that, but didn't understand much other than that it has positive effects xD

But i'm up for any testing

Basically, she's potentially found a chemical link between taking menthol and the increased sexual content in its following dreams.

A big box of Milk Tray chocolates and a MOI anyone?

Dose: 1/8 teaspoon Peppermint Oil
Side Effects: Constipation.
Sleep Duration: 3.5 hours
WBTB: No
Lucid: No
Vividness: High
Stability: NA
Dream Comments: Since peppermint oil (2 night) I have been waking up in the first 3.5 to 4 hours with excellent recall of the dream I wake from. The dreams are not particularly abnormal for me. I will try a proper WBTB dose tonight at the times I have been waking initially.

Aly, are we then to assume that whilst on menthol, that stress-related activation of the alpha-2 adrenergic receptor will be moderately controlled.... such that stress then won't have a large effect on dreams?

Also... without stress, would the alpha-2 adrenergic receptor be necessarily activated during sleep.... I mean so that an antagonist deactivating it is actually useful? It seems you're saying that it would have more effect at prolonging REM cycles, no?

Originally Posted by littlezoe

I read through that, but didn't understand much other than that it has positive effects xD

But i'm up for any testing

Hehe, nice to have some loyal experimenters. I'll definitely let you know if I figure out a good, easily-accessible research method, 'cause I'd like to be as sure about this as I possibly can.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Aly, are we then to assume that whilst on menthol, that stress-related activation of the alpha-2 adrenergic receptor will be moderately controlled.... such that stress then won't have a large effect on dreams?

Also... without stress, would the alpha-2 adrenergic receptor be necessarily activated during sleep.... I mean so that an antagonist deactivating it is actually useful? It seems you're saying that it would have more effect at prolonging REM cycles, no?

Well, there are a good number of other adrenergic receptors that I'm less educated about which may or may not weaken sleep quality still (particularly the ones focusing more on the peripheral nervous system), but yes, it does mean that the effect of stress through this particularly mechanism would be lessened.

Without stress, it's harder to say. Normally, levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine should be very low during sleep as it is, and so it may not have as huge of a REM-increasing effect. More than likely, the most useful place it would be was for situations like where you have heightened stress, or something else that's causing the receptors to have higher activity than normal. Though, I think they become more active with age, too. I remember reading that somewhere... so it's still possible that is has a REM-promoting effect even in stress-free situations. However, the REM boost I think is just a nice little added bonus, and not the core benefit of blocking these receptors. D2 activation already provides plenty of REM-promoting effects on its own.

I guess I should say, the levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine should be very low compared to waking states... but not necessarily just in general. There is still a definite benefit in increasing the blockade of the receptors. And from all I've ever read, dreams supposedly activate the same receptors and everything as waking experiences, which means the REM-reducing effects of even dream-induced adrenaline rushes should be lessened as the doses increase.

Hmm... seems menthol would have its use when awake throughout the day too. Would it also have an effect on libido then? If so, would be a good test for comparison.

And yeah, that means people waking up less from nightmares due to less effective adrenaline rushes? ^_^

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Hmm... seems menthol would have its use when awake throughout the day too. Would it also have an effect on libido then? If so, would be a good test for comparison.

And yeah, that means people waking up less from nightmares due to less effective adrenaline rushes? ^_^

Hahaha, yeah, most likely. I guess that's a good way to look at it for you.

It's possible that menthol would increase libido while awake at usable doses as well, but how much is questionable. The thing is, if my theory is correct, then the mechanism it's increasing in dreams is already being expressed strongly. (Or at least, more strongly than while awake.) In other words, the sexual effects may make themselves known from the additive effect, but alone might not be that strong without risking side effects, which are most likely caused through menthol's other properties and therefore wouldn't vary much between dreams and waking states. At the very least, though, I imagine it should still cause vasodilation... which would make it at least useful in the same way as Viagra. Given that you've already taken some pretty large doses before, maybe you could just test it and let us know? XP But don't forget, too, that dynorphins are largely involved in the discriminative effects of THC; contrary to D2's more natural state in dreams, you may have to fight through some anxiety at necessary doses. It can certainly be done, and when you're able to ignore D2 anxiety those euphoric effects definitely do spring forth, but just cautioning you given your track record....

Originally Posted by RobStar

I've just made my first Mint tea cup (of many) for the night ahead.
Wish me luck, as you never know I might get my hands on another two cups! (...and the ones containing tea.)

Either that, or I'll end up p*ssing myself. Lol!

Nice. Good luck!! I look forward to your results.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I imagine it should still cause vasodilation... which would make it at least useful in the same way as Viagra.
...........maybe you could just test it and let us know? XP

lol. Just lol.

I've just made my first Mint tea cup (of many) for the night ahead.
Wish me luck, as you never know I might get my hands on another two cups! (...and the ones containing tea.)

Either that, or I'll end up p*ssing myself. Lol!

My mom just handed me a package we got in the mail. I haven't opened it yet.

Good god it smells like mint. XD

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

My mom just handed me a package we got in the mail. I haven't opened it yet.

Good god it smells like mint. XD

Right on time. You gonna test 'em tonight?

All your posts are intresting Alyzarin, its like a documentary. If this all works you should publish it.