Thread: Religion Series : THELEMA

In regards to this religion:

I'm sorry, but I seem to be missing the point here. Basically, the religion simply states that people can do as they please, and kill anyone who tries to keep them from doing so. How is this a religion? It sounds like common human nature to me.

Perhaps I don't understand the true definition of religion. To be honest, this sounds like what anybody would do, regardless of religion. I also have a problem with this religion due to the fact that there are no morals in it. Do what you please? So, I can kill anyone? I can steal anything? I can do ANYTHING? Really? This would crate a rather dangerous world, I think. I mean, it's basically each to his own. That's a quick way to war.

Everything Christians say is evil (sex, art, literature, wine, drugs, fine apparel,etc)

To be fair, the Bible doesn't actually label any of those things as evil.

Originally Posted by Noogah

In regards to this religion:

I'm sorry, but I seem to be missing the point here. Basically, the religion simply states that people can do as they please, and kill anyone who tries to keep them from doing so. How is this a religion? It sounds like common human nature to me.

Perhaps I don't understand the true definition of religion. To be honest, this sounds like what anybody would do, regardless of religion. I also have a problem with this religion due to the fact that there are no morals in it. Do what you please? So, I can kill anyone? I can steal anything? I can do ANYTHING? Really? This would crate a rather dangerous world, I think. I mean, it's basically each to his own. That's a quick way to war.



To be fair, the Bible doesn't actually label any of those things as evil.

It's not that simplistic.

See, the idea is that you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't infringe on anyone else's right to do what they want. When you do, they have the right to use any means necessary to protect their rights. So murder and theft aren't really good choices because they open you up to all sorts of reprisals.

It actually requires a stronger code of ethics to live by such a system than something like Christianity for instance, which uses fear as its primary motivator. "Do this, OR ELSE!" That's not morality. That's blackmail.

It's also more of a philosophy than a religion. And it doesn't give you license to go forth and steal/murder, it just sets out a list of fundamental freedoms for the individual, excluding anything which hurts others or their freedoms.

To be fair, the Bible doesn't actually label any of those things as evil.

But historically, Christians have. And lots still do.

THELEMIC ART:

Originally Posted by Noogah

I'm sorry, but I seem to be missing the point here. Basically, the religion simply states that people can do as they please, and kill anyone who tries to keep them from doing so. How is this a religion? It sounds like common human nature to me.

Actually Noogah, prepare for a shock, for the first time ever on the R/S board YOU ARE COMPLETELY CORRECT!!!!

We celebrate human nature and life. This is why our religions are 180 degrees of each other.

YOU/XTIAN beleive you are born a sinner. You are by nature bad - born to screw up. You fear your god and need to grovel and appologise to him all the time. You refer to yourself as a member of a "flock" - a sheep. Sheep being the most mindless and stupid of animals who epitomise group think. You have to follow "gods will" and not your own. To understand "gods will you and the other sheep you flock with go to church. Paying of course for entry to sit in the stalls (and no doubt heaven also). There you get life advice from a preacher who tells you what he thinks a book of 2000+ year old creation myths and tribal law "means" in the modern day. You live in fear of "sinning" and that if you sins are too big, or you do not say sorry enough, will be punished for eternity.


I/THELEMITES beleive that mankind has evolved to be a social animal. Sure we fight sometimes and often fuck up. But we have a huge appetite fo love, we seek companionship, love to laugh and be with each other. We are capable of amazing acts of kindness, love and compassion - THESE THINGS ARE NOT EXCLUSIVELY CHRISTIAN!!!! We do not live in fear. We do not beleive we are born bad. We do not appologise unless we have fucked up. We do not worship anything except the fact we are alive. We do not follow (unless it suits our own agendas). We do not turn the other cheek - hit us and we will happily kick seven shades of shit out of you - and this will be an act of love. If our families, homes or freedom are threatened then we fight - gladly so - as man has done thoughout the centuries regardless of religion. We do not need a church and we most certainly do not need preachers - the answers to our own lives are within us. We are responsible to and for ourselves - we cannot project our responisibility (or lack thereof) onto a god or devil - we must walk our own paths and take the consequences for our own actions.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Perhaps I don't understand the true definition of religion. To be honest, this sounds like what anybody would do, regardless of religion. I also have a problem with this religion due to the fact that there are no morals in it. Do what you please? So, I can kill anyone? I can steal anything? I can do ANYTHING? Really? This would crate a rather dangerous world, I think. I mean, it's basically each to his own. That's a quick way to war.

Its funny. I have had this conversation many times with fundie christians. It is the most mindless type of arrogance to think that without your xtian "morals" we would all be raping, murdering and pillaging each other. You do realize that there are vast numbers of people out there that are not christians?

Bhuddists beleive that sorrow exists because we react blindly to our egos. Therefore Acting without Thinking is what gets us in trouble and makes us crappy to each other on occasions. Thelemites beleive you must "Know Thyself!". Every act should be a considered act. A thelemite uses meditation, analysis, logic to decide how to act - not react. AND that this act should be an act of love. AND having decided to act we must excell, exceed and succeed.

EXAMPLE. AS we all know you hate gays and think they are disgusting perverts. Lets say you came accross a gay Thelemite in a street in your town and verbally abused him/her. They would try not to react immediately unless they actually felt physically threatened. They would talk to you, try to find out why you felt this way. They would analyze their own emotions and gut reactions - thinking through where each might have came from. They would weigh up the various options for responding, thinking through the possible outcome and consequences of each. Once decided and having fully accepted the probable consequences, then they would act. If they had decided to knock your teeth out then this would be an act of love, first towards you so as to help you understand that your behaviors and beliefs are insulting and potentially dangerous to you and others, and as an act of love to wider society, many of whom would probably agree that you were entirely deserved of a burst mouth. The beating would be somewhat severe as it is pointless to do things half heartedley. They would then pick you up off the floor, dust you down, and bid you farewell without further malice or grudge.

Crowley taught that you must face your fears and confront your own dogma, that you should seek out your predjustices and beat them down. Many/Most beleifes are inflicted on us by our parents, family, religion, culture, peers, etc.

In your case this would mean that you should go out of your way to befreind some gays. Hang out with them, involve them in your life. Learn to understand them, experiment sexually with them. Learn to love and appreciate them. You wont/cant do this of course - you dont have the equipment - your preist and 2000 year old book of fairy stories tell you that gays are nasty and there is no further thought on the matter required, after all it hurts to think no?

Yes you can do anything you want - as long as your are prepared to accept the consequences. The fact is Noogah that most people - the really great majority of us just want to laugh and love and do something cool with their lives - very few would actually want to run around murdering, raping and burning things down - and I suggest that those who do are already doing so regardless of yours or anyones elses "morals".