Thread: Origins

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you know the theory in question, then why do you dismiss it as "highly unlikely," despite the evidence?

Oh, so this is what it all boils down to:

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

Originally Posted by Mario92

It has been my experience that most creationists I know treat science like it's ******* voodoo.

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I respect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh, so this is what it all boils down to:

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

...what kind of wild tangent did you just launch off on? I was talking about matter being comprised of energy. Ah, but here we go...this shall be fun.

Care to name some of these "pit falls" you speak of? Evolution is solid. We can SEE it happen. We have PROOF that the theory is sound. What more do you want?

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I resp

ect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

If you respect it so much, why do you treat the big theories with mountains of evidence like witchcraft, and instead believe the literal translation of a 2,000 year-old book written in a time when sea monsters were considered a reasonable threat?

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

You mostly come off as incredibly close-minded.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Care to name some of these "pit falls" you speak of?

Oh no! Come one dude, don't pull one of those again! Listen, I know you want to believe Evolution. But seriously? Of course it's flawed! Haven't we been through this before? haven't we named, like, a gazillion before? And if not me, somebody??? I'll make a thread on the topic if you wish.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you respect it so much, why do you treat the big theories with mountains of evidence like witchcraft

I don't. And scientific theory does not equal scientific fact. But I know you'll debate that.

You mostly come off as incredibly close-minded.

Well, obviously. So do you. VERY close minded. But, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking about my general conduct. Am I annoying, or arragont, or what? Because, I don't want to come across as either.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh no! Come one dude, don't pull one of those again!

I'm sure most of us would prefer for you not to dodge questions, actually.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Listen, I know you want to believe Evolution. But seriously? Of course it's flawed!

Well then tell us how.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Haven't we been through this before?

It shouldn't matter, if you're going to make the extraordinary claim that evolution is "chalk full of holes and pitfalls" then you damn well better back it up.

Originally Posted by Noogah

haven't we named, like, a gazillion before? And if not me, somebody???

Emphasis added. Honestly, doesn't that seem like a gigantic cop-out to you? Instead of, I don't know, actually posting someone else's argument in refutation of evolution, you're assuming that just saying that someone has refuted evolution will fly?

Originally Posted by Noogah

I'll make a thread on the topic if you wish.

Please do. And if I may make a suggestion, research the topic thoroughly before you make the decision to post it.

Oh no! Come one dude, don't pull one of those again! Listen, I know you want to believe Evolution. But seriously? Of course it's flawed! Haven't we been through this before? haven't we named, like, a gazillion before? And if not me, somebody??? I'll make a thread on the topic if you wish.

It would have been a lot quicker to just type one flaw than that crap. Please stop bullshitting.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh no! Come one dude, don't pull one of those again! Listen, I know you want to believe Evolution. But seriously? Of course it's flawed! Haven't we been through this before? haven't we named, like, a gazillion before? And if not me, somebody??? I'll make a thread on the topic if you wish.

STFU. Stop dodging the question with that bullcrap and answer it.

I don't. And scientific theory does not equal scientific fact. But I know you'll debate that.

Yes, I damn well shall. In science, a theory is the highest status something can attain. Things like...the THEORY of gravity. Unless, of course, you're insinuating that gravity is also a hoax, and that the only that keeps us from flying out into space is the hand of a benevolent God.

Technically, infinity is just a theory...it has never been "proven" by YOUR definition. No one's ever counted there, how do we KNOW that if you keep adding 1 to a number that it will continue to increase? Your "just a theory" argument is drilled full of holes, not evolution.

Well, obviously. So do you. VERY close minded. But, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking about my general conduct. Am I annoying, or arragont, or what? Because, I don't want to come across as either.

Science ADJUSTS its views as more evidence comes to light. I'm fully willing to shift my stance. If you could prove to me that, say, God does exist, I will spin on a fucking dime. I will be embarrassed as hell, but I will run down the street yelling, "take science and bin it! God is real!" Lucky for me, then, that absolutely no evidence at all has been able to back up the notion of a divne creator to date. Every mystery ever solved throughout history has turned out to be NOT MAGIC. You, however, fly on blind faith alone, denying evidence to preserve your own, self-centered beliefs. The fact that you treat your faith as if YOU and YOU alone are correct, and that all else is either immoral or absolute bullshit, makes you a very arrogant individual. You do not even consider the alternatives, you argue with assertions as if they were facts, and you pass moral judgment over others. You are close-minded, arrogant, and hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Noogah

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

I have had enough of seeing you dismiss evolution and never reply to any of my challenges Noogah. I am hereby haunting you of this forum because of your insistent immature behavioral trolling.

I had a lot of respect for you but here you are back and saying the same nonsense as before.

I have provided a prolific amount of undeniable evidence for evolution and you have no said one thing about any of them.

I have asked you to challenge them.

I have asked you for any evidence that would fill these apparent "holes"

But you have said nothing but run away and ignore the topics all under the guise of "I'm busy, let me think about it"

You have given creationists and Christians a gross representation with your complete ignorance and disrespect for science. If I were Christian, I would be shamed to see you debating for my ideals.

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I respect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

You better be thankful to be labelled the biggest hypocrite I have ever met online. Do you realize how many boards I have seen online?

You have proven to be a liar, an avoider, a deviant, a hypocrite, and an antagonist.

If you have any respect for yourself and your ideals, you will consider the actual evidence and arguments set forth against what you say.

Consider the most significant assimilated post for evolution that I have made:
+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...1&postcount=23

You did not say a single thing in response but deviation.

So which is it Noogah;

Are you an enormous hypocrite?

Or

Are you an enormous idiot?

Of course, nothing can be held against you if you are, in fact, an actual idiot. Considering your past, I am more inclined to think that because of the significant amount of disrespect you have shown just myself.

~

Originally Posted by Noogah

Well, obviously. So do you. VERY close minded. But, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking about my general conduct. Am I annoying, or arragont, or what? Because, I don't want to come across as either.

Mostly you just dodge questions and that can be extremely annoying when someone puts a lot of thought into a post and you just dismiss it casually.

There's also the prospect that the reason the search for a First Cause gives nonsense results is because it's a nonsense proposition, based on flawed assumptions about time and causality.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Is that a sexual innuendo?

Is THAT a sexual innuendo?

Are you attempting to seduce the big bang?

In-your-endo.

Originally Posted by Catbus

Please do. And if I may make a suggestion, research the topic thoroughly before you make the decision to post it.

Originally Posted by Mario92

STFU. Stop dodging the question with that bullcrap and answer it.

Person:What is the meaning of life?

Person2: Oh no! Haven't we gone through this before?

Person: SHUT UP AND ANSWER THE STUPID QUESTION!

Person2: I'll make a thread on it.

Such a broad topic. You expect me to answer it in one post?

No.

Originally Posted by O'nus

I am hereby haunting you of this forum because of your insistent immature behavioral trolling.

Okay, back up.

1.You almost never talk to me.

2. What sort of "trolling" behavior are you talking about? I honestly don't know, and don't want to come across as a troll.

I never ignore your "challenges". You always post questions, I always post back. You always hate my posts back, and pretend I never posted, and demand another. Despite the fact that there are about ten other posts in my queue, all of which seem to believe they have my absolute 100% undivided attention.

You have to understand: I'm a thirteen year old with school, a large family (most of which are younger children who often need older attention) and many different responsibilities. On my best day, I get about 2-3 hours computer time. Fifty percent of which will be occupied with personal matters, and another twenty percent on other area's of this forum. I come back here, and there are about fifty different posts waiting for responses. If I skip over any, it is either accidental, or because your's wasn't as important as the others.

I'm betting it was accidental if I ever let you down O'nus.

You have proven to be a liar, an avoider, a deviant, a hypocrite, and an antagonist.

I wish to death you would demonstrate.

you will consider the actual evidence and arguments set forth against what you say.

Alright. I'm going to say this one more time, and for future reference, come back here:

I HAVE

And I thought against it.

Now, I could say the same for you. You have never changed your mind, and I doubt you ever will. Have you considered the evidence? Probably.

Are you an enormous hypocrite?

Or

Are you an enormous idiot?

I could be either. And if so, it would probably be the hypocritical part. But it isn't on purpose, and I certainly haven't tried to be on the forums.

Originally Posted by stonedape

someone puts a lot of thought into a post and you just dismiss it casually.

Thanks for finally letting me know. Although, the latter happens to me all the time.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

There's also the prospect that the reason the search for a First Cause gives nonsense results is because it's a nonsense proposition, based on flawed assumptions about time and causality.

I'm sorry...what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Person:What is the meaning of life?

Person2: Oh no! Haven't we gone through this before?

Person: SHUT UP AND ANSWER THE STUPID QUESTION!

Person2: I'll make a thread on it.

Such a broad topic. You expect me to answer it in one post?

No.

All I asked for was one of these gaping holes you claim to know about in the theory of evolution. Tell me, what makes you so convinced that ninety-some-odd percent of the scientific community, the best and the brightest, is dead-wrong?

Alright. I'm going to say this one more time, and for future reference, come back here:

I HAVE

And I thought against it.

Now, I could say the same for you. You have never changed your mind, and I doubt you ever will. Have you considered the evidence? Probably.

Lol, what evidence? You have NONE. And how the hell did you reach the conclusion that the Bible is more accurate than the brightest minds in the world? Creationism and the literal belief in the bible is so full of holes, I can't even

I could be either. And if so, it would probably be the hypocritical part. But it isn't on purpose, and I certainly haven't tried to be on the forums.

And yet somehow, you still come off as a close-minded hypocrite...ponder that. Try as you might, you are often seen as a hypocrite simply for your belief system. Shouldn't that tell you something, namely that your beliefs are inherently flawed and dated?

Originally Posted by Noogah

I'm sorry...what are you talking about?

You'll fail to understand when you're older.

Since evolution is a part of "humanity's origins"...

Noogah, both natural selection and genetic mutation are solid facts. Natural
selection is straightforward: Those with genes more suited to the
environment will outperform those with genes that perform less well in the
same environment. Those with the "better genes" have higher probabilities of
survival and therefor higher probabilities of passing those genes on. Naturally
occurring mutations arise all the time. Sometimes they do nothing,
make the cell function incorrectly, or cause the cell to become cancerous.
When a mutation arises in a gamete, the offspring will have it. If the
mutation is beneficial for survival in the environment, please see natural
selection above. There are other mechanisms that are a part of the
evolutionary process, but for illustration purposes these are the easiest for
anyone to understand (at least by my explaining). Many millions of years can
give rise to new species entirely. Though this was a very quick, rough
explanation, the rest of it can be found under O'nus's descriptions.


Saying there is no evidence for evolution is very much like claiming that
there is no evidence that a gun caused the death of a person after having
found a bullet in that dead person's head. The bullet is what allows the gun
to kill, just as the evolutionary mechanisms are what allow the process of
evolution to work the way it has been for a long, long time.

As per the bullet example, being able to infer that a gun was the cause of
death (as opposed to God putting the bullet into existence inside the now
dead person's head) is much more convincing.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Okay, back up.

1.You almost never talk to me.

We will soon find out that interact a sufficient amount.

2. What sort of "trolling" behavior are you talking about? I honestly don't know, and don't want to come across as a troll.

I will show you in a moment as you pleaded for it.

I never ignore your "challenges". You always post questions, I always post back. You always hate my posts back, and pretend I never posted, and demand another. Despite the fact that there are about ten other posts in my queue, all of which seem to believe they have my absolute 100% undivided attention.

We will see. One moment on this one.

You have to understand: I'm a thirteen year old with school, a large family (most of which are younger children who often need older attention) and many different responsibilities. On my best day, I get about 2-3 hours computer time. Fifty percent of which will be occupied with personal matters, and another twenty percent on other area's of this forum. I come back here, and there are about fifty different posts waiting for responses. If I skip over any, it is either accidental, or because your's wasn't as important as the others.

I am an adult running a house, working, volunteering, in a relationship, tending to a car, tenants, renting a house, and moderating a forum. Don't pull the "I'm busier than you to respond" card - it's pathetic. I can find time, I expect you can to.

I wish to death you would demonstrate.

You wished for it, so here it is.

Proof that Noogah is a Deviant Hypocrite

+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...#39;nus&page=6
- In this post I prove how your points are absolutely and scientifically wrong, you never responded.

+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...#39;nus&page=7
- In this thread, you say you will "Look it up" but even now, with a thread I made on it, you have said nothing but debated about your own stance of Christ and his relation to it.

+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...=noogah&page=2
- In this post you deviate, saying you're not lying, and that you will return to post. You never do.

+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...1&postcount=23
- In my thread asking you, "What evidence do you need to show evolution is true?" - I give a prolific amount of undeniable evidence in which you completely neglect.

+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...=noogah&page=8
- In this thread, I have given another prolific amount of evidence in which you casually dismiss as "please lock this thread" and "I'll think about it"

How many more examples do we need to show here?

You have no respect for debate and do nothing but embarrass the ideals you stand for.

Do you realize how many Christians stand by Evolution? Are you educated enough to know that Fred Hoyle, a prestigious academic for the steady-state theory, was against the big bang and evolution because it gave more inclining to Theism?

Do you actually know any history of that which you proclaim?

How about common intelligent-design theories which utilize evolution and simply say, "God could have initiated it all"?

Or, do you subscribe to the DiscoveryInstitute.com whereas they adhere to some, but not all, but only when it is convenient to there argument in contextual question?

How about the research being done by CERN represented in the media by Brian Cox on the big bang and cosmological arguments?

What of people like William Lane Craig, head theologian for the philosphy of religion, arguing that Evolution does not invalidate revelation based theology?

But you claim to be aware of all the evidence and completely and utterly enlightened..?

Alright. I'm going to say this one more time, and for future reference, come back here:

I HAVE

The above quote is my proof that you are a liar because, as shown above, you have not.

And I thought against it.

Have you? You have not demonstrated this whatsoever. It seems to me that you have thought more about how you can try to save your own beliefs in the face of others, not whether or not to consider that you are wrong.

I presume your beliefs are too crucial to your social life - giving them up would sacrifice a large part of your living routine. Why else would you be so stubborn?

I can understand - it takes a lot of will to live autonomously and individually. I understand if you do not want to think for yourself and would rather argue, blindly, for those that tell you what to do and think.

Now, I could say the same for you. You have never changed your mind, and I doubt you ever will. Have you considered the evidence? Probably.

I have frequently changed my mind on many matters. There are people on DV itself that have done so.

I can call upon that evidence as well, if needed.

Originally, when I joined DV, I considered myself a Deist.

I could be either. And if so, it would probably be the hypocritical part. But it isn't on purpose, and I certainly haven't tried to be on the forums.

Apparently you are ignorant, or willfully neglectful, of your own behavioural. You really think highly of yourself don't you?

You ought to learn that humility and being able to admit that you are wrong is probably the greatest human nobility.

Thanks for finally letting me know. Although, the latter happens to me all the time.

I will make up for it. Name any times and I will compensate for others impatience with your stubbornness.

~

I agree with Juroara that what scientists and spiritual people are talking about is the same using different instruments. But I DO think that GOD is a bad word. I DO think it is a mistake to anthropomorphize pure energy. Matter is energy is matter. After the big bang SOME energy crystallized into matter. It still is. I read somewhere recently that there are particles popping in and out of existence all the time. Could it be that the Universe is continuously being created moment by moment? I don't know.
But personally, I don't think that the big bang was the beginning. I think that it is a part of a cycle. Everything else in nature operates in cycles, why not the Universe?
So... we all know about energy and matter. Where does consciousness come in or come from? I've talked to some people who believe that all energy/matter is conscious but asleep and that not only do life-forms evolve but so does consciousness. And, they believe, before the big bang all the potential energy was purely conscious and it fell asleep by becoming matter. If you anthropomorphize this it sounds very similar to the Hindu myth of Brahma. Brahma creates the Universe by falling asleep and dreaming it. Now the Buddhists are more sophisticated I believe. They don't anthropomorphize anything. They don't call it God, they call it the Law. As in a law of nature. You don't pray to gravity, that would be silly. You either go with the law of gravity and you are fine or you go against the law of gravity and break your bones. The Buddhists say that the nature of Mind creates the Universe because it is the nature of mind to create images of forms. The trick to enlightenment according to the Buddhists is to realize that all forms are made out of consciousness which is not separate from you. Makes sense since we are a part of the Universe. There is no outer GOD who created it, but we are all dreaming it up together.
Kind of makes the Universe a solid dream. The only thing not proven by science is that consciousness is energy. Of course there is no way to measure consciousness or observe it objectively, only subjectively. That kind of limits the scientific method in working with consciousness.
But what if?: consciousness=energy=matter

Originally Posted by O'nus

In this post I prove how your points are absolutely and scientifically wrong, you never responded.

You made three points clumped in with arguments to a bunch of other people, which in turn was clumped in with more people. Forgive me for either looking over yours, or abandoning the thread. As you will see, I didn't respond to anyone there.

Originally Posted by O'nus

In this thread, you say you will "Look it up" but even now, with a thread I made on it, you have said nothing but debated about your own stance of Christ and his relation to it.

I only said I would research it. Afterwards, I was banned. Four-five months later, I returned.

Reasonably, I had forgotten about our debate on humanism.

And in regards to your humanism thread:

I thought...

Originally Posted by O'nus

There is to be no debating the falsehood of the religion as this is not the point.

I only pointed out that humanism and Christianity were separate things.

In this post you deviate, saying you're not lying, and that you will return to post. You never do.

O'nus...I don't know what you're trying to pull here, but it would seem that a post I made afterwards has mysteriously disappeared.

I explicitly stated...

Originally Posted by Noogah

Very well then. I'm not going to post here. Not because it is too hard, but at present, I have things that would better occupy my time than this particular thread.

In my thread asking you, "What evidence do you need to show evolution is true?" - I give a prolific amount of undeniable evidence in which you completely neglect.

Okay O'nus, I don't know what you're doing. If you look two pages later, I tell several people that I had dropped out of that debate way earlier - and I remember it! Now, I don't know if you're deleting the posts, or if I deleted them myself for some reason, but, point being, before or after your gargantuous post was made (and I responded to several of the like on many a different thread before that) I had quit the debate.

In this thread, I have given another prolific amount of evidence in which you casually dismiss as "please lock this thread" and "I'll think about it"

I'm pretty sure everybody here remembers that thread. I went back and forth with you several times on that thread, and only six pages later did I lock it.

Here is my first reply, which was explicitly titled in bold, MY RESPONSE TO O'NUS:

How many more examples do we need to show here?

It would seem to me that I have made several inconsistencies in keeping my word. I do apologize. Really, no sarcasm. I do tend to drop out a lot. There's just so much pressure when your debating against so many people. And not just when your debating either. Basically, when 10-15 people are turned against you, and you are constantly being bombarded every place you bring the subject up (besides Church), it gets hard.

I don't try to shun anyone, really. It just happens when there is so much going on.

Do you actually know any history of that which you proclaim?

How about common intelligent-design theories which utilize evolution and simply say, "God could have initiated it all"?

Or, do you subscribe to the DiscoveryInstitute.com whereas they adhere to some, but not all, but only when it is convenient to there argument in contextual question?

How about the research being done by CERN represented in the media by Brian Cox on the big bang and cosmological arguments?

What of people like William Lane Craig, head theologian for the philosphy of religion, arguing that Evolution does not invalidate revelation based theology?

Yes, I do.

How about them?

You seem to think I do not believe in Evolution because it erases the validity of a creator. Why no. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution. Although, I certainly find that train of thought very unbiblical.

I still find the theory impossible.

I will make up for it. Name any times and I will compensate for others impatience with your stubbornness.

Thanks, but I don't mind that much. I realize that they either see it, or they don't. If they unintentionally ignore it, I'll never make the mistake of blaming them. If they ignore it because they can't respond, then it can sink in by itself.

You seem to think I do not believe in Evolution because it erases the validity of a creator. Why no. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution. Although, I certainly find that train of thought very unbiblical.

Ah, good, old-fashioned, holier-than-thou hypocrisy. Beautiful.

I still find the theory impossible.

On what grounds? Make a thread if you must, but this time, please just answer the question.

I still find the theory impossible.

I don't know how to respond except with the following quote:
(the article of which it came I hope you'll find the time to read)

Originally Posted by http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

So enormous, ramifying, and consistent has the evidence for evolution become that if anyone could now disprove it, I should have my conception of the orderliness of the universe so shaken as to lead me to doubt even my own existence. If you like, then, I will grant you that in an absolute sense evolution is not a fact, or rather, that it is no more a fact than that you are hearing or reading these words.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Ah, good, old-fashioned, holier-than-thou hypocrisy. Beautiful.

...what?

Originally Posted by Mario92

On what grounds?

Please tell me you haven't been in the dark the whole time I've been here?

Well, nevermind. Since you'll label me as a hypocrite if I don't, I'll quickly recite some of my own issues with evolution.

Spoiler for stuff:

1.The theory says the earth has been around for for billion years...and the weird thing is, our planet exists.

2.The genetic mutation required to create a human being from elements would be more then is realisticly possible.

3.One of my favorite fallacies is that each organ apparently evolved independently of eachother, despite the fact that they all depend on eachother. The human body is an extremely delicate balance of inner clockwork, none of which could simply have fallen in place.

I'm too weary to check off to you all the reasons I don't believe evolution here.

Rather, check out all the other places where I posted some of my reasons.

Like, here.

I can't sift through the thousands of posts I've made. If you can post all your reasons for doubting creation in one thread, then I might consider doing the same.

Originally Posted by Invader

So enormous, ramifying, and consistent has the evidence for evolution become that if anyone could now disprove it, I should have my conception of the orderliness of the universe so shaken as to lead me to doubt even my own existence. If you like, then, I will grant you that in an absolute sense evolution is not a fact, or rather, that it is no more a fact than that you are hearing or reading these words.

Well...that's kind of...absolute. I actually disagree, so, I don't know what to tell you, and I believe Evolution can be shown to be very flawed.

I highly recommend you visit Answers in Genesis if you want to know why.

I can't DISPROVE evolution any more then you can DISPROVE creation.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Please tell me you haven't been in the dark the whole time I've been here?

Well, nevermind. Since you'll label me as a hypocrite if I don't, I'll quickly recite some of my own issues with evolution.

Spoiler for stuff:

1.The theory says the earth has been around for for billion years...and the weird thing is, our planet exists.

2.The genetic mutation required to create a human being from elements would be more then is realisticly possible.

3.One of my favorite fallacies is that each organ apparently evolved independently of eachother, despite the fact that they all depend on eachother. The human body is an extremely delicate balance of inner clockwork, none of which could simply have fallen in place.

I'm too weary to check off to you all the reasons I don't believe evolution here.

Rather, check out all the other places where I posted some of my reasons.

Like, here.

I can't sift through the thousands of posts I've made. If you can post all your reasons for doubting creation in one thread, then I might consider doing the same.

Thank you for finally answering the question. Now...
1. So what if the Earth is four billion years old? You know, other than the fact that it conflicts with your faith, which is flawed in so many ways...
2. Evolution is a slow process, and genetic mutations spring up all over the place. Nature selects those mutations most adept to survive. Why do you think this is so realistically impossible? You have four billion years to work with, after all. Don't you think that life would accomplish something in that time frame? Just because you have difficulty wrapping your mind around something is no reason to simply dismiss the entire theory as bullcrap.
3. I would like sources of this, but I can see it happening. Imagine a creature living in an environment with toxins about, maybe fermented sugar cane juice. The liver would develop damn fast. How about a creature that needs to do a lot of running to escape from predators? Heart and lungs. The world is a diverse place with many, many unique locations and environments.

Well...that's kind of...absolute. I actually disagree, so, I don't know what to tell you, and I believe Evolution can be shown to be very flawed.

No, it can't. Not at present, anyway.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You made three points clumped in with arguments to a bunch of other people, which in turn was clumped in with more people. Forgive me for either looking over yours, or abandoning the thread. As you will see, I didn't respond to anyone there.

Just to note, that although the posts may not be directly addressed to you, I have referenced them to you.

I only said I would research it. Afterwards, I was banned. Four-five months later, I returned.

Reasonably, I had forgotten about our debate on humanism.

And in regards to your humanism thread:

I only pointed out that humanism and Christianity were separate things.

You had said you would contribute a little more than just being pretentiousness. You did nothing to discuss humanism itself, you just discussed your own ideals. Are you incapable of suspending them for a discussion?

Do you not think that most people are aware of the difference?

Are you not aware that humanism is present in every religion? They are not necessarily separate things but that Humanism can exist separately.

Okay O'nus, I don't know what you're doing. If you look two pages later, I tell several people that I had dropped out of that debate way earlier - and I remember it! Now, I don't know if you're deleting the posts, or if I deleted them myself for some reason, but, point being, before or after your gargantuous post was made (and I responded to several of the like on many a different thread before that) I had quit the debate.

I'm pretty sure everybody here remembers that thread. I went back and forth with you several times on that thread, and only six pages later did I lock it.

Here is my first reply, which was explicitly titled in bold, MY RESPONSE TO O'NUS:

Yes, you made one "decent" response to several of my posts. I had made one significant post with evidence which you have yet, to this day, to acknowledge.

It would seem to me that I have made several inconsistencies in keeping my word. I do apologize. Really, no sarcasm. I do tend to drop out a lot. There's just so much pressure when your debating against so many people. And not just when your debating either. Basically, when 10-15 people are turned against you, and you are constantly being bombarded every place you bring the subject up (besides Church), it gets hard.

Do not try and play this card as an excuse.

I enter into bi-daily debates, weekly forums, and have a life to. Do you think that you are the only person that I debate with?

How about them?

You seem to think I do not believe in Evolution because it erases the validity of a creator. Why no. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution. Although, I certainly find that train of thought very unbiblical.

How is it unbiblical? Your Christian peers seem to think otherwise. Apparently you are on your own sec of Christianity? Or perhaps you just refuse to secede your incessant debating for no reason?

You say that you like to discuss and consider evidence, but you have not done anything but say that.

I still find the theory impossible.

It is as impossible as you are breathing.

You have no provided a single shred of reason why.

Do you see other people arbitrarily saying;
"I just think that is impossibly wrong"
"Why?"
"I'm too busy to answer you, leave me alone, chill"?

How do you think you come across when saying such things?

Thanks, but I don't mind that much. I realize that they either see it, or they don't. If they unintentionally ignore it, I'll never make the mistake of blaming them. If they ignore it because they can't respond, then it can sink in by itself.

It seems you are more guilty of what you accuse others of doing.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Well, nevermind. Since you'll label me as a hypocrite if I don't, I'll quickly recite some of my own issues with evolution.

1.The theory says the earth has been around for for billion years...and the weird thing is, our planet exists.

I have provided you evidence for the dating mechanism.

You have ignored it and still say this nonsense.

2.The genetic mutation required to create a human being from elements would be more then is realisticly possible.

I have provided you the DNA train of mutations in several forms of evidence.

You have ignored it and still say this nonsense.

3.One of my favorite fallacies is that each organ apparently evolved independently of eachother, despite the fact that they all depend on eachother. The human body is an extremely delicate balance of inner clockwork, none of which could simply have fallen in place.[/SPOILER]

What? This obviously demonstrates your failure to understand evolution.

It took a long time for humans to develop to what they are now.

I have provided you evidence for this - the evolution of the human body from our ancestors over billions of years.

You have ignored my evidence and still say this nonsense.

I'm too weary to check off to you all the reasons I don't believe evolution here.

An excuse for your lack of thinking.

Rather, check out all the other places where I posted some of my reasons.

Like, here.

I have made a lengthy response in that thread to you in which you have not yet to reply.

And yet you use it to support you now?

Are you really blind to how you are behaving?

I can't sift through the thousands of posts I've made. If you can post all your reasons for doubting creation in one thread, then I might consider doing the same.

I have posted all my reasons for why evolution is fact.

You have ignored them and still say this nonsense.

Well...that's kind of...absolute. I actually disagree, so, I don't know what to tell you, and I believe Evolution can be shown to be very flawed.

It would appear that you believe without any reason whatsoever because, not only have I provided you with undeniable evidence, but you have absolutely provided no reasoning. Also, you have accused others of doing this; not considering the evidence.

More evidence that you are a hypocrite.

I highly recommend you visit Answers in Genesis if you want to know why.

You cannot just link a website and expect results. Here,

http://www.skeptic.com

Go there and you'll see how you're wrong, durr hurrr.

Is that any actual capacity for intellectual debate or just a lazy cop-out to demonstrate a lacking of thinking?

I can't DISPROVE evolution any more then you can DISPROVE creation.

You are absolutely wrong.

Evolution can be disproved.

Creation is unfalsifiable. Yes, you cannot prove Creationism wrong. That is why it is wrong. If you allow unfalsifiable reasoning to reinforce your beliefs, you could believe an insurmountable amount of things.

For example, Freud would say you are just in denial of your homosexuality by venting in these threads about evolution. Your father molested you. You just don't remember because they are suppressed. Also, you might deny it, but that is just your mechanism to cope - it is still true that you are gay and were molested by your father.

Do you see how unfalsifiable reasoning can be, not only malicious, but completely absurd?

I admire you for at least debating it - but you must learn when to be open minded.

I mean, at your age, I was an arrogant asshole who did not really listen to anyone and just debated my point of view nonstop - never admitting I was wrong. I never became a full fledged evolutionist probably until I was 18. Thus, I admire that you at least debate it, but you are not being respectful to it.

You could be a smart person, I can see it.. but sadly, you are not grasping it. Instead, you favor what appears to make sense to you and completely plug your ears to anything else. Unfortunately, closed-mindedness is only a symptom of your compounding ignorant hypocrisy and religious pretension. I hope you are insightful to see the nobility in humility and one day reconcile your fallacious propositions.

~

Originally Posted by Noogah

Rather, check out all the other places where I posted some of my reasons.

Like, here.

That thread is yet another display of your complete lack of understanding of the sciences you try to refute. And you ignoring others of course.

First it was funny; now it's just sad.