Thread: Origins

Originally Posted by Noogah

I presume you side with Evolutionists. Either way, I don't believe you are a Creationist, or a Christian.

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

Originally Posted by Catbus

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

+1

Broham, if you take matter and throw it together with anti-matter, you get pure energy; it is all converted perfectly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

Nuclear weapons convert a small amount of matter to pure energy...according to the laws of physics, if matter and energy were separate entities, then this would not be possible in the slightest, but it happens.

Noogah, you have no idea what you are talking about; trust me.

Originally Posted by Catbus

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

Noogah, you have no idea what you are talking about; trust me.

Uh, funny thing was, I never mentioned big bang. Not once. And yes, I do understand what I'm talking about. Maybe not as well as you do, but enough to grasp the theory, that's for sure.

I understand perfectly well that the Big Bang is not directly correlated with Evolution, and that the two theories can be seperated. However, most Evolutionists I know also believe in the Big Bang.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Uh, funny thing was, I never mentioned big bang. Not once. And yes, I do understand what I'm talking about. Maybe not as well as you do, but enough to grasp the theory, that's for sure.

I understand perfectly well that the Big Bang is not directly correlated with Evolution, and that the two theories can be seperated. However, most Evolutionists I know also believe in the Big Bang.

If you know the theory in question, then why do you dismiss it as "highly unlikely," despite the evidence? It has been my experience that most creationists I know treat science like it's fucking voodoo. Seriously, what's up with that? Science makes observations about the world and comes up with rational solutions to explain observed phenomena. Unless, of course, you simply wish to say "god did it" and be close-minded and incredibly arrogant...

And before you launch off on a tangent that my FAITH in science is as blind as any fundamentalist, I'd just like to add that science CHANGES its views to match new evidence that comes to light...FAITH is the denial of evidence to preserve belief.

And yeah, people who tend to trust science a little bit in one area tend to give it credit in another. Stop derailing the thread.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you know the theory in question, then why do you dismiss it as "highly unlikely," despite the evidence?

Oh, so this is what it all boils down to:

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

Originally Posted by Mario92

It has been my experience that most creationists I know treat science like it's ******* voodoo.

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I respect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh, so this is what it all boils down to:

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

...what kind of wild tangent did you just launch off on? I was talking about matter being comprised of energy. Ah, but here we go...this shall be fun.

Care to name some of these "pit falls" you speak of? Evolution is solid. We can SEE it happen. We have PROOF that the theory is sound. What more do you want?

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I resp

ect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

If you respect it so much, why do you treat the big theories with mountains of evidence like witchcraft, and instead believe the literal translation of a 2,000 year-old book written in a time when sea monsters were considered a reasonable threat?

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

You mostly come off as incredibly close-minded.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Care to name some of these "pit falls" you speak of?

Oh no! Come one dude, don't pull one of those again! Listen, I know you want to believe Evolution. But seriously? Of course it's flawed! Haven't we been through this before? haven't we named, like, a gazillion before? And if not me, somebody??? I'll make a thread on the topic if you wish.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you respect it so much, why do you treat the big theories with mountains of evidence like witchcraft

I don't. And scientific theory does not equal scientific fact. But I know you'll debate that.

You mostly come off as incredibly close-minded.

Well, obviously. So do you. VERY close minded. But, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking about my general conduct. Am I annoying, or arragont, or what? Because, I don't want to come across as either.

Originally Posted by Noogah

People who don't believe Evolution don't understand it.

Is that right?

Think about that for a minute. Good and hard. Then come back and tell me again, that people who don't agree on something don't understand it.

Fact is, Evolution is so chalk full of holes and pitfalls it isn't even half funny. That would be why what is "evidence" to you, is not in fact "evidence" to me. If I am to use your same argument, perhaps it is that, you simply don't understand the evidence against Evolution? Or perhaps you don't understand your own "evidence"?

I have had enough of seeing you dismiss evolution and never reply to any of my challenges Noogah. I am hereby haunting you of this forum because of your insistent immature behavioral trolling.

I had a lot of respect for you but here you are back and saying the same nonsense as before.

I have provided a prolific amount of undeniable evidence for evolution and you have no said one thing about any of them.

I have asked you to challenge them.

I have asked you for any evidence that would fill these apparent "holes"

But you have said nothing but run away and ignore the topics all under the guise of "I'm busy, let me think about it"

You have given creationists and Christians a gross representation with your complete ignorance and disrespect for science. If I were Christian, I would be shamed to see you debating for my ideals.

Well get ready to meet a Creationist who respects Science. Science. I respect Science. I respect, and enjoy learning Science.

Quick question: Do I come across as arrogant in some of these posts? I seem to annoy you really badly. Should I change my approach?

You better be thankful to be labelled the biggest hypocrite I have ever met online. Do you realize how many boards I have seen online?

You have proven to be a liar, an avoider, a deviant, a hypocrite, and an antagonist.

If you have any respect for yourself and your ideals, you will consider the actual evidence and arguments set forth against what you say.

Consider the most significant assimilated post for evolution that I have made:
+ http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...1&postcount=23

You did not say a single thing in response but deviation.

So which is it Noogah;

Are you an enormous hypocrite?

Or

Are you an enormous idiot?

Of course, nothing can be held against you if you are, in fact, an actual idiot. Considering your past, I am more inclined to think that because of the significant amount of disrespect you have shown just myself.

~

I agree with Juroara that what scientists and spiritual people are talking about is the same using different instruments. But I DO think that GOD is a bad word. I DO think it is a mistake to anthropomorphize pure energy. Matter is energy is matter. After the big bang SOME energy crystallized into matter. It still is. I read somewhere recently that there are particles popping in and out of existence all the time. Could it be that the Universe is continuously being created moment by moment? I don't know.
But personally, I don't think that the big bang was the beginning. I think that it is a part of a cycle. Everything else in nature operates in cycles, why not the Universe?
So... we all know about energy and matter. Where does consciousness come in or come from? I've talked to some people who believe that all energy/matter is conscious but asleep and that not only do life-forms evolve but so does consciousness. And, they believe, before the big bang all the potential energy was purely conscious and it fell asleep by becoming matter. If you anthropomorphize this it sounds very similar to the Hindu myth of Brahma. Brahma creates the Universe by falling asleep and dreaming it. Now the Buddhists are more sophisticated I believe. They don't anthropomorphize anything. They don't call it God, they call it the Law. As in a law of nature. You don't pray to gravity, that would be silly. You either go with the law of gravity and you are fine or you go against the law of gravity and break your bones. The Buddhists say that the nature of Mind creates the Universe because it is the nature of mind to create images of forms. The trick to enlightenment according to the Buddhists is to realize that all forms are made out of consciousness which is not separate from you. Makes sense since we are a part of the Universe. There is no outer GOD who created it, but we are all dreaming it up together.
Kind of makes the Universe a solid dream. The only thing not proven by science is that consciousness is energy. Of course there is no way to measure consciousness or observe it objectively, only subjectively. That kind of limits the scientific method in working with consciousness.
But what if?: consciousness=energy=matter

Originally Posted by O'nus

In this post I prove how your points are absolutely and scientifically wrong, you never responded.

You made three points clumped in with arguments to a bunch of other people, which in turn was clumped in with more people. Forgive me for either looking over yours, or abandoning the thread. As you will see, I didn't respond to anyone there.

Originally Posted by O'nus

In this thread, you say you will "Look it up" but even now, with a thread I made on it, you have said nothing but debated about your own stance of Christ and his relation to it.

I only said I would research it. Afterwards, I was banned. Four-five months later, I returned.

Reasonably, I had forgotten about our debate on humanism.

And in regards to your humanism thread:

I thought...

Originally Posted by O'nus

There is to be no debating the falsehood of the religion as this is not the point.

I only pointed out that humanism and Christianity were separate things.

In this post you deviate, saying you're not lying, and that you will return to post. You never do.

O'nus...I don't know what you're trying to pull here, but it would seem that a post I made afterwards has mysteriously disappeared.

I explicitly stated...

Originally Posted by Noogah

Very well then. I'm not going to post here. Not because it is too hard, but at present, I have things that would better occupy my time than this particular thread.

In my thread asking you, "What evidence do you need to show evolution is true?" - I give a prolific amount of undeniable evidence in which you completely neglect.

Okay O'nus, I don't know what you're doing. If you look two pages later, I tell several people that I had dropped out of that debate way earlier - and I remember it! Now, I don't know if you're deleting the posts, or if I deleted them myself for some reason, but, point being, before or after your gargantuous post was made (and I responded to several of the like on many a different thread before that) I had quit the debate.

In this thread, I have given another prolific amount of evidence in which you casually dismiss as "please lock this thread" and "I'll think about it"

I'm pretty sure everybody here remembers that thread. I went back and forth with you several times on that thread, and only six pages later did I lock it.

Here is my first reply, which was explicitly titled in bold, MY RESPONSE TO O'NUS:

How many more examples do we need to show here?

It would seem to me that I have made several inconsistencies in keeping my word. I do apologize. Really, no sarcasm. I do tend to drop out a lot. There's just so much pressure when your debating against so many people. And not just when your debating either. Basically, when 10-15 people are turned against you, and you are constantly being bombarded every place you bring the subject up (besides Church), it gets hard.

I don't try to shun anyone, really. It just happens when there is so much going on.

Do you actually know any history of that which you proclaim?

How about common intelligent-design theories which utilize evolution and simply say, "God could have initiated it all"?

Or, do you subscribe to the DiscoveryInstitute.com whereas they adhere to some, but not all, but only when it is convenient to there argument in contextual question?

How about the research being done by CERN represented in the media by Brian Cox on the big bang and cosmological arguments?

What of people like William Lane Craig, head theologian for the philosphy of religion, arguing that Evolution does not invalidate revelation based theology?

Yes, I do.

How about them?

You seem to think I do not believe in Evolution because it erases the validity of a creator. Why no. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution. Although, I certainly find that train of thought very unbiblical.

I still find the theory impossible.

I will make up for it. Name any times and I will compensate for others impatience with your stubbornness.

Thanks, but I don't mind that much. I realize that they either see it, or they don't. If they unintentionally ignore it, I'll never make the mistake of blaming them. If they ignore it because they can't respond, then it can sink in by itself.

You seem to think I do not believe in Evolution because it erases the validity of a creator. Why no. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution. Although, I certainly find that train of thought very unbiblical.

Ah, good, old-fashioned, holier-than-thou hypocrisy. Beautiful.

I still find the theory impossible.

On what grounds? Make a thread if you must, but this time, please just answer the question.

I still find the theory impossible.

I don't know how to respond except with the following quote:
(the article of which it came I hope you'll find the time to read)

Originally Posted by http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

So enormous, ramifying, and consistent has the evidence for evolution become that if anyone could now disprove it, I should have my conception of the orderliness of the universe so shaken as to lead me to doubt even my own existence. If you like, then, I will grant you that in an absolute sense evolution is not a fact, or rather, that it is no more a fact than that you are hearing or reading these words.

God is the human nature of wanting to never die.
Immortality !