Thread: Question for Atheists.

The problem here is that many people have a mistaken concept of God. If we conceive of God as physical, anthropomorphic (like man) being, the question of God’s origin is valid. However, such a concept of God is alien to the Bible . Consider the following descriptions of God from the Bible:


John 4: 24
God is a Spirit: ...

Matthew 16:17
... for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my father which is in heaven.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should ... ;


Not only is God described as being outside space, but He is also described as being outside of time...

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Psalm 102:27
But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Acts 1:7
...It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his power.

If God is a being that is unlimited in time, and if He has access to every piece of time as if it were now, the question of who created God is an invalid question. When asked “Who or what created God?” we are making the assumption that God was created. If God exists outside of time and space, and if He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” (Revelation 22:13).

God created time. The statement of Genesis, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” is making reference to the creation of time. The reason that things like heat death, the expansion of the universe, and the depletion of hydrogen do not apply to God is because He is outside of time. God has always been. He did things before time began (see 1 Corinthians 2:7). He not only began time; He will also end it. When time ends, all matter and all mankind will enter eternity—a timeless condition free of the negative things that time brings upon us now.

2 Peter 3:10-11
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness.

Also, how can you explain DNA.. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.Why is this so amazing? ....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

Originally Posted by * Diamond Eyes *

Also, how can you explain DNA.. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.Why is this so amazing? ....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

Evolution. The human genome didn't just spontaneously leap into existence by some incredible miracle; it grew very slowly over billions of years. What is so unfeasible about that? Genes in the genome tell a cell what proteins and compounds to produce. Is it all that hard to imagine that, given the sheer size of the earth and diversity of conditions, some sort of rudimentary early life would develop in a sort of primordial soup, and that that life would find a niche, from which to take root, grow, and evolve? Just because you fail to comprehend something, or are unable to wrap your mind around an idea, does not contribute one iota of evidence for a higher power. For you, DNA is an unexplained phenomenon (though science explains it quite well, and gathers more evidence all the time). There is more evidence for abiogenesis than there is God, and far more for evolution. In terms of evidence, God is roughly on par with the flying spaghetti monster; there is none. Why should God be exempt from logic, just because a large number of people believe in this idea? A few hundred years ago, people everywhere thought the world was flat, and that the earth was at the center of the universe. Questioning is an excellent thing. Reevaluating your beliefs is a good thing. Why do you lack such confidence in science and solutions grounded in reality?

Some would tell me to "have faith." Why is faith good? I'm getting along just fine without it. The world would get along just fine without it. Before you quote bible verses again, I should point out that the bible is an absolutely horrid source of evidence. It is an ever-mutating book of fables written several thousand years ago in a time when sea monsters were still considered a legitimate threat. Furthermore, there is no evidence whatsoever that a higher power wrote the original book, or that the original was ordained from God. For anything to be taken seriously within the book, it requires a suspension of critical thinking in exchange for blind faith. I repeat: why is faith good?

Yes, there are mysteries out there, but they won't be solved by just attributing them to a "higher power" and calling it a day. Unexplained events are unexplained, not the work of a divine being. Show me one reason, one event in the entire history of the world, where under reasonable experimental conditions, anyone has ever shown any reason to believe in a higher power.

I dont doubt science. I think science and christianity go hand in hand. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the bible and science. If God gave us the Bible which tells us about what He did, there cannot possibly be a contradiction. If there is a contradiction, it is either because we have misunderstood the Bible or we have misunderstood scientific evidence. The lesson of the past has been that mankind has misunderstood both and has pitted his human traditions against his bad science, resulting in total confusion. It is bad enough that this has caused religious division and strife. science and faith are symbiotic in nature--each beneficial to the other.The fossils show us the fact that animals have changed.The fact that living things can change is indisputable. In the prehistory of the earth in Genesis ,the earth went through an undated, untimed period in which the resources man would need were produced. They were produced by the original materials being created and then being altered by natural processes so that man could find them. If we free ourselves from human traditions and creeds and look open-mindedly and fairly at the evidence, we can see that science and the Bible are friends--not enemies. Bad science and bad theology have caused an unnecessary conflict with enormous damage being done to both science and theology. If we look at these two areas as if they exist in a positive symbiotic way, we can see that the written word revealed in the Scriptures and the created message in the world around us have the same message and compliment one another.
Many Christian scientists embrace both their Christian faith and scientific theories of cosmology and evolution. That is, they accept the factual, testable aspects of these theories, but they also acknowledge a real and tangible role for God in the process.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...encebible.html

Faith starts from knowledge, even if it reaches beyond it, and its character as faith is not destroyed by its association with knowledge. There can be history without faith. There were some who saw Jesus, heard him teach and even witnessed him perform miracles who did not believe in him. Can there be faith without history?. Even if Jesus did not teach all of those things we think he taught, even if he did not perform all of those miracles recounted in the Gospels, and even if he was not raised from the dead, people could still believe in him. But the problem is that such a faith is empty. It is a false faith. As Paul said: "If Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation has been in vain and your faith has been in vain. ... lf Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins" (1 Cor. 15:14, 17).
We need a rational, historical basis for our faith, so that it will not become a subjective, individual feeling which is not guided by any objective criterion. History, then, prevents faith becoming fantasy.

Originally Posted by * Diamond Eyes *

I dont doubt science. I think science and christianity go hand in hand. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the bible and science. If God gave us the Bible which tells us about what He did, there cannot possibly be a contradiction. If there is a contradiction, it is either because we have misunderstood the Bible or we have misunderstood scientific evidence.

How do you classify a certain interpretation of the bible as a misconception when you are encouraged to create your own interpretation? There are literally hundreds of interpretations, maybe you misunderstood. I'm no scientific expert, but I can clearly see that the bible and science do not go hand in hand. There are many things in the bible that are not scientifically possible, and there are many things in the bible that are in direct contradiction with scientific theories.

The laws of science have always been. They are great, they are impressive, and they are complex, just like the character God. You say God doesn't need a creator. Why do the laws of science?