Thread: So i had this thought

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

And what a man.

good question

no, questions end in question marks, like this "?" you dolt

"God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." - Nanrei Kobori, late abbot of the Temple of the Shining Dragon, a Buddhist sanctuary in Kyoto

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

"God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." - Nanrei Kobori, late abbot of the Temple of the Shining Dragon, a Buddhist sanctuary in Kyoto

loving this quote.

Thanks Carou!

I'd also like to add that a stick is a very complex organism... well, a tree is I mean. And they do reproduce. So, we're really very similar, though we talk a lot more, and as far as I know trees don't post on the internet.

But a more fair comparison to a stick would be say the arm of a corpse, not a living human being. You see a lot of sticks laying around because trees don't bury their dead like we do. We usually have to rake them up and dispose of them ourselves.

This is a fun convo!

I'm sorry, but I fail t see how a tree is comparable to a human. Yes, they reproduce in some manner, and are fairly complex, but compared to a human? Well...they aren't very complex.

Ah, but it turns out a stick is actually quite a bit more complex than you first assumed though, isn't it? When you made this statement:

"By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick."

It seems when you said that you were thinking of a stick as a completely inanimate object, like a rock. But a little thinking shows that you missed the mark significantly. It's actually part of a living organism. And in a sense, a human being really has no more significance than a stick (or a rock for that matter). It's just 'there"... and we're just "here"... we need to make our own meaning in life or there is none. In fact that's exactly why religions were invented... to create a sense of meaning in life.

... And just to be clear, I was more aiming that statement at Mario than you... because he said something along the lines that a stick is a very simple thing. I'm not saying he was wrong or I disagree with him, just pointing out something he might not have realized.

Another fun fact of the day: some plants, especially trees, and especially trees with sticks attached to them, have seemingly random chemical fluctuations...plant emotions, perhaps?

Interesting... somebody should ask one next time they're talking to a plant. Cause remember, apparently they respond to emotions in your voice. Not so sure about that one though (but you do see a lot of people hugging trees... )

Oh good, this is the thread with the talk about existentialism... I was thinking about this one today.

As well as I remember it, this is the difference between the core beliefs of Existentialism and Nihilism:

• EXISTENTIALISM
  
  Begins with the idea that life has no inherent meaning or point, so therefore it's up to us to create meaning in our own lives.
  
  
  
  
  
• NIHILISM
  
  Begins with the same assumption, that life has no inherent meaning or point, but takes a much more depressive conclusion from that and says basically what the OP of this thread was saying... "So what's the point in living then?"

But it's been a long time since I read that, and I believe I got it originally from the internet.... So I could be wrong (and it's pretty intimidating trying to post anything of a philosophical nature in these boards with people like Carousoul and Mario in here!)

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Interesting... somebody should ask one next time they're talking to a plant. Cause remember, apparently they respond to emotions in your voice. Not so sure about that one though (but you do see a lot of people hugging trees... )

I always talk to my plants...well, the important ones, anyway. At the very least, you exhale CO2 all over them, which is a good thing, I imagine. So yeah, I can see that stimulating plant growth. And if they can pick up on your affection, all the better!

But it's been a long time since I read that, and I believe I got it originally from the internet.... So I could be wrong (and it's pretty intimidating trying to post anything of a philosophical nature in these boards with people like Carousoul and Mario in here!)

Hahah, I don't usually rip apart philosophies like I rip apart religions. One is there to stimulate thinking and bring up new ideas, the other essentially claims that a philosophy is absolute truth. I have no problem with people posting things of a speculative nature, or for the sake of argument, or just to provoke thought...it is when these people believe these things to be absolutely true with no wiggle room that I start taking issue...so yeah, you're safe from my wrath...for now.

Well, actually I was more worried that I might have got it wrong and then get schooled by one of you. Which really would not be a bad thing as I'd learn from it. It's awesome to be able to openly discuss this kind of stuff with such intelligent and knowledgeable people. It gives me a chance to try out what I think I know and see where the flaws are. And THAT is how you learn.

I Love the fact that these boards are called FORUMS... just like the ancient Greek forum. Its almost like we're all strolling around in tunics stroking our long white beards while lute music drifts lazily from under a nearby tree, and there go Aristotle and Plato over there....

Originally Posted by Mario92

I always talk to my plants...well, the important ones, anyway. At the very least, you exhale CO2 all over them, which is a good thing, I imagine.

Hmmm yeah, and then they give you something to breathe in exchange.... nice arrangement.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Well, actually I was more worried that I might have got it wrong and then get schooled by one of you. Which really would not be a bad thing as I'd learn from it. It's awesome to be able to openly discuss this kind of stuff with such intelligent and knowledgeable people. It gives me a chance to try out what I think I know and see where the flaws are. And THAT is how you learn.

I Love the fact that these boards are called FORUMS... just like the ancient Greek forum. Its almost like we're all strolling around in tunics stroking our long white beards while lute music drifts lazily from under a nearby tree, and there go Aristotle and Plato over there....

*puts on lute music and starts growing out a beard. Reaches for bed sheets.* That actually sounds awesome. Remind me to do that in a lucid...and remind me to try to share a dream with you. I think we could philosophize rather nicely.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Hmmm yeah, and then they give you something to breathe in exchange.... nice arrangement.

I rather think so.

Originally Posted by Mario92

*puts on lute music and starts growing out a beard. Reaches for bed sheets.* That actually sounds awesome. Remind me to do that in a lucid...and remind me to try to share a dream with you. I think we could philosophize rather nicely.

Hey, you're on.... IF I EVER MANAGE TO GO LUCID!!!!

Haha, look for the dude on the left:

...and yeah, I've got a long way to go in my lucid endeavors, too.

LOL ok, then I guess look for the guy on the right. What the hell, a short brown beard is better than none!! It'll be interesting to see what those big books are we're carrying...

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just to numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just top numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

I do this almost every night. Most relaxing thing in the world.

-

But for the people who just think we are a bunch of atoms with no purpose.. that is just weird to me. Yes we are atoms, but what is the point in ANYTHING in existence if nothing matters at all? Really, stop and think about it. Just think about it reaaaal hard. If you still fully believe that, you should just kill yourself now. Not trying to be mean, but hell, it doesn't matter now does it? You're just a bunch of atoms, no one cares about you and you will be forgotten in a couple years... and COMPLETELY forgotten in 100 years or less.

I get and completely understand where the "theory" comes from, I just don't get it though. I honestly don't even give a shit if it actually is true. I'd rather go through life thinking it is meaningful than going through life thinking everything you do will even be forgotten by yourself one day, and that everything in existence is just a cycle of randomness created by randomness.


I love topics like this though, I really do thank the people that think other wise. It helps me ponder and expand my thinking..

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just to numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

Yeah, or you know, it could just be that all those little dots in the sky are big balls of nuclear fusion reactions caused by hydrogen atoms in the plasma state colliding together to form helium, carbon, and other elements taking place hundreds of thousands, even millions and billions of light years away. Is that so hard to accept? Why does there have to be something else out there?

Isn’t this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you’re so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
“To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet… is just fucking silly”
Or something like that.
Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
That’s ok.
But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long as my great great great great uncles and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.

In all actuality, there is an incredibly overwhelming possibility that we really are no more than organized clumps of atoms. That said, we still have the capacity (or at least delusion) that we can think, have free will, and enjoy ourselves, which is why we don't cut ourselves short. You don't need a purpose or a reason to enjoy life.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Why does there have to be something else out there?

My opinion is that it is a type of anthropomorphism (for the lack of a better word), where people detect the influence or prescence of humans or another intellegent entity in otherwise natural phenomenon.

I know anthropomorphism isn't the correct word for this, but it comes the closest to describing the human tendency to detect the influence of supernatural beings in natural phenomenon among the words that I know.

Hey Mario, big thanks just for the quote!!! What's that from/ who wrote it?
Also, I think a big part of the problem on this thread is... just exactly what is meant by the word PUROPSE?

How can a person have a purpose?

An oil filter has a purpose... to filter oil. That's its purpose because that's what it was designed and made to do. Does a flower have a purpose? You could say it's purpose is to reproduce... heck, if that's a purpose, then I guess all animals share that one. But that's only a 'PURPOSE' in the biological sense. Is a flower's purpose maybe to look pretty or smell pretty? No, it indeed DOES those things, but they're not its PURPOSE... it evolved those traits.

A purpose means something you were MADE to do... and so the very use of the term implies intelligent design.

I say we have no purpose... we have something far far better. We have freedom to explore and think and love and dream.

Far better to be a free agent in a meaningless world than the slave of a mad god.

... To those who believe we do have a purpose... what exactly is that purpose?

Here is what the quote is originally from:

I have had similar thoughts several times. Sometimes I think that, since I can't really know what will happen after death, why bother about it? Ultimately does it matter whether I disintegrate into nothingness or whether something of me remains to continue living. Then I wonder what is the point of living if one day I will become nothing. Makes no sense to me. I think the best option is to focus on the now and not bother about all these things.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

and my first reaction was to post it on dreamviews!!!!!!

so while i was eating breakfest, specifically corn flakes, i had this thought...hence the title LOL. I was thinking like, we don't really know if anything actually happens after death, so like, whats the point then? It's probably the deepest thought I've had in like my whole life so I had to see what u guys thought. ANyway for a discussion point: Whats the point of life if there is nothing after it??? I might as well end it now because its going to end anyway, right??

first of all, corn flakes was a great choice.

...i know i'm a little late replying to this, but i'd like to throw in my two cents (even though i'm broke, ha)... i think we all make our own meaning in life. enjoy life for what it is -- whatever it is. maybe it's just a vacation from nothingness. maybe there's a life after this that we can look forward to or dread, depending on what exactly that afterlife is. we don't know either way whether or not there's nothing or if there's something after this, but i like to believe there is.

if you're only waiting to die, you're not really living.