Thread: So i had this thought

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

Originally Posted by René Descartes

I think, therefore I am.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

I wouldn't expect anything else from you, and the answer is yes. There is absolutely nothing in life that tells me that we're anything more than what I explained in my initial post. Nothing at all.

While I certainly believe that nothing matters in life, it is impossible to live by such "rules", because of how we work. Just like how you don't follow all the rules of your sacred book.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Whats the point of life if there is nothing after it??? I might as well end it now because its going to end anyway, right??

Sigh, life is wasted on some.....

Look : Even though some beleive we are just a complex chemical reaction, and that even free will does not exist, I think we can at least all agree that some things we expereince along the way are good and fun.

The meaning of life is simple really :

Get laid as much as you possibly can with as many people as you possibly can. Try everything at least once. Eat and drink everything you enjoy regually. Travel everywhere. Take mind altering substances. Indulge in all things of sense and rapture.

Embrace hedonism.

Not that hard really is it.....

I agree completely with Marvo. [edit] and evildoctor. although, I think one should practice some moderation, but only for optimal experience.

to OP: there is something I have to ask, it's bothered me for awhile, um...what happened to you?

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Sure is reductionist and wrong in here.

Originally Posted by evildoctor

Sigh, life is wasted on some.....

Look : Even though some beleive we are just a complex chemical reaction, and that even free will does not exist, I think we can at least all agree that some things we expereince along the way are good and fun.

The meaning of life is simple really :

Get laid as much as you possibly can with as many people as you possibly can. Try everything at least once. Eat and drink everything you enjoy regually. Travel everywhere. Take mind altering substances. Indulge in all things of sense and rapture.

Embrace hedonism.

Not that hard really is it.....

Not the meaning but a very good means to reach it... The way of Hedonism takes a step in the right direction.

On Topic: Yes, the body is a group of molecules, a simple compression of energy. It operates for a matter of time and then returns to the flow of energy. We, me and you, are not our body, we are not our brains or our skin, we're not our muscles or our nerves. We're the life our body lives.
Foe me i've come to understand that the meaning to life is to live. Nothing else, but live to it's fullest. We're the love and the hurt, the hate and the happiness. We are the experience gathered and collected.

and my first reaction was to post it on dreamviews!!!!!!

lol

so while i was eating breakfest, specifically corn flakes, i had this thought...hence the title LOL. I was thinking like, we don't really know if anything actually happens after death, so like, whats the point then? It's probably the deepest thought I've had in like my whole life so I had to see what u guys thought. ANyway for a discussion point: Whats the point of life if there is nothing after it??? I might as well end it now because its going to end anyway, right??

No, this is illogical. If there is no inherent quality in living life now, why would life in the future (after death) give your life any quality either?

The fact is there is quality in life. No, there is probably not any inherent meaning to the universe, which means that we're alone in the universe. For some reason we have a problem coping with that but it's not really a negative thing. We make our own meaning in life. Whether that's to improve life for other people or just to have a good time.

This philosophy is called existentialism, it's a reaction to nihilism.

Originally Posted by Noogah

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

As a side note, "I think therefore I am" is somewhat outdated.

If you want something wholly more convincing, "I experience therefore I am"

Originally Posted by Xei

This philosophy is called existentialism, it's a reaction to nihilism.

what is the difference between existentialism and hedonism? and what exactly is the difference between existentialism and nihilism? I would think that the former is a more positive form of the latter, but I don't know...I'm sorry, I've read and read about both and I still don't fully understand either (especially existentialism).

Originally Posted by nerve

what is the difference between existentialism and hedonism? and what exactly is the difference between existentialism and nihilism? I would think that the former is a more positive form of the latter, but I don't know...I'm sorry, I've read and read about both and I still don't fully understand either (especially existentialism).

Have you read any actual books, or just stuff you find on the internet?

key differences:

Hedonism's main claim is that only pleasure and pain can motivate us and that we should live our lives based on the pursuit of pure pleasure.

Existentialism has a lot of variations depending on who you're reading. but typically the model based on someone like Sartre[which is very very different to people like Kierkergaard or even Heidegger, who is somewhere nearabouts] is mainly about freedom. Sartre argues that freedom is basically a universal authority and that what makes humanity is that man is free. Freedom and holding the reigns of one's own destiny is the universal nature of man.

Nihilism can be 'Moral Nihilism' or 'Existential Nihilism', and most nihilism we speak of is moral nihilism. Even though I've actually read Beyond Good and Evil, I don't feel fully qualified to spell out the clear differences between these ideas and forms of existentialism. Nihilism is in a way a form of existentialism, but since Nietzsche, philosophers have developed massively on the ideas.

So just by reading those very very rough ideas you can get an idea of differences.


What you must must must bear in mind though is that none of these are set doctrines really, and are all merely names applied to ideas of various thinkers and works, so naturally there is massive variation in ideas.

So we shouldn't really think about things like existentialism and its difference to nihilism, rather, Sartre, and how what he says at one particular time in one book is in contrast to later claims by him or whatevs. When you're being really detailed.



I'm being very rough, and very rough is all you'll likely find on the internet.

So if you genuinely want to pursue some of this stuff, read some books. Existentialism and Humanism by Sartre is very easy really, and not long. I wouldn't recommend reading much Nietzsche though, as he can be very tricky to understand. Read nietzsche but first read whatever introductory philosophy books and more advanced stuff you can. it's no good diving into nietzsche if you know nothing about the traditions of philosophy.



If you really must use the internet to read about these things, I can recommend no site more than Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

http://plato.stanford.edu/

If you stick to that, you'll be in pretty good hands, as that has some great stuff on, but is still really just rough guides.


Have a look at some Camus as well if you like existentialism. I think he may have actually denied being an existentialist, but he's worth a very hard look.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?


I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

The natural phenomena is everything in existence as we define it. I'd think twice before calling it "nothing but". Only those who are ignorant enough to think they understand anything at all like to say things like "just lumps of atoms, chemical reactions" or think of the universe in terms of significance. An atom, a chemical reaction... In what way are they not amazing? In what way is it not amazing that this condensed energy following certain laws that we can't even begin to comprehend, ends up creating a thought which then goes to great lenghts to deny it's origin and create another, in it's own make-believe "thought universe".

I think being nothing more than "just a lump of atoms and chemical reactions", or holding the "significance of a stick", as you like to call it, is as amazing as it can get. I think that I wouldn't find anything else as existentially pleasing as this. Seriously though. Am I the only one who doesn't take the "right" to be offended by the physical, chemical or sticks and then taking an absolute standpoint of KNOWING that I AM more? I'm not saying that I am. But I think those who delude themselves with the imaginary are missing out on reality. Perhaps not though, perhaps my experience of the universe matches some priests experince of God.

It always makes me think how crazy the world really is. A person who believes in Angels and demons is sane and wise, a person who sees reality as it presents itself is ludicrus. Since when is having no more significance than a stick ludicrus?

Originally Posted by Marvo

There is absolutely nothing in life that tells me that we're anything more than what I explained in my initial post. Nothing at all.

But there is a problem. A stick simply isn't. It is only a lump of atoms. By your logic, humans are also just a lump of atoms. Therefore, by your logic, we are not. However, you are. And if a lump of atoms isn't, then what is cannot possibly be isn't. Unless of course you will argue that you don't exist, then I guess it's a different story.

Originally Posted by Marvo

Just like how you don't follow all the rules of your sacred book.

I support them all, albeit at times I fail to follow all. That isn't the point of Christianity anymore anyways. Your mixing up Jewish tradition with New Testament Christianity.

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Ultimately you're everything and nothing.

:)

Nice post grasshoppa, don't worry about death and that... it's all in our heads.. If life was going to end, then why hasn't it ended? It can't...

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

This.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

The only thing that separates us from sticks is a greater degree of complexity. We are matter capable of reproducing...that's really the only difference. Why should there be any sort of supernatural factor at all, when we can explain a great deal about the human body and mind with science? What we don't understand is slowly being uncovered by science, and any evidence for a supernatural explanation (such as a soul) is waning. Similarly, why should humans have a purpose at all? Thus far, it seems that life has been little more than increasing complexity...perhaps mankind as a whole has some sort of purpose, but then again, maybe not. We could be one great, cosmic accident, after all. Who knows?

Originally Posted by evildoctor

Sigh, life is wasted on some.....

Look : Even though some beleive we are just a complex chemical reaction, and that even free will does not exist, I think we can at least all agree that some things we expereince along the way are good and fun.

The meaning of life is simple really :

Get laid as much as you possibly can with as many people as you possibly can. Try everything at least once. Eat and drink everything you enjoy regually. Travel everywhere. Take mind altering substances. Indulge in all things of sense and rapture.

Embrace hedonism.

Not that hard really is it.....

I agree with most of that, with the qualification below:

Originally Posted by nerve

I agree completely with Marvo. [edit] and evildoctor. although, I think one should practice some moderation, but only for optimal experience.

to OP: there is something I have to ask, it's bothered me for awhile, um...what happened to you?

I see future problems with developing a drug habit...moderation is for the optimization of life.

Originally Posted by MementoMori

Not the meaning but a very good means to reach it... The way of Hedonism takes a step in the right direction.

On Topic: Yes, the body is a group of molecules, a simple compression of energy. It operates for a matter of time and then returns to the flow of energy. We, me and you, are not our body, we are not our brains or our skin, we're not our muscles or our nerves. We're the life our body lives.
Foe me i've come to understand that the meaning to life is to live. Nothing else, but live to it's fullest. We're the love and the hurt, the hate and the happiness. We are the experience gathered and collected.

I agree with most of this. Live live to its best, squeeze it for every drop of pleasure (long-lasting happiness, not instant gratification, necessarily). We have no evidence for an afterlife...you get what you get. (Take this debate to the other thread, please).

Originally Posted by Xei

lol
No, this is illogical. If there is no inherent quality in living life now, why would life in the future (after death) give your life any quality either?

The fact is there is quality in life. No, there is probably not any inherent meaning to the universe, which means that we're alone in the universe. For some reason we have a problem coping with that but it's not really a negative thing. We make our own meaning in life. Whether that's to improve life for other people or just to have a good time.

This philosophy is called existentialism, it's a reaction to nihilism.

I'm fairly certain I agree with most of this...

Now, some view the possibility of a lack of an afterlife as troubling, disturbing, etc. but keep this in mind: you won't be around for any of it. You live, you die, and no more, not even an eternity of nothingness. The collection of experiences that is you ultimately dies and is eroded by the sands of time. This is not to say that life is absolutely pointless and everyone should just kill themselves now; indeed, quite the opposite is true. Go nuts! Your time is ticking...do something with it.

The point of life is love and to do good to other people. There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

Originally Posted by Praise

The point of life is love and to do good to other people. There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

First sentence: Top tier

Second sentence: Ruining and belittling first sentence tier.

Originally Posted by Praise

The point of life is love and to do good to other people.

I agree with this.

There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

I do not agree with this. I believe we did some debating in the other thread and reached a general consensus of "nobody knows jack shit about the afterlife." Please stop referring to it as if it is absolute truth.

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

Originally Posted by Praise

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

I am Aslan, the great lion.

Originally Posted by Praise

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

Evidence ≠ proof. This is an unexplained phenomena, and is in no way conclusive proof for the existence of an afterlife.

/debate

Originally Posted by Mario92

Evidence ≠ proof. This is an unexplained phenomena, and is in no way conclusive proof for the existence of an afterlife.

/debate

I am Belial, the beautiful and meek.

Mario anything can be called unexplained if you choose not to believe in it. It's only unexplained to you because it does not fit into your belief system. The sources are perfectly valid for the conclusion of an afterlife in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Praise

Mario anything can be called unexplained if you choose not to believe in it. It's only unexplained to you because it does not fit into your belief system. The sources are perfectly valid for the conclusion of an afterlife in my opinion.

I am Moloch, the great, besmeared with blood.