Thread: So i had this thought

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

Originally Posted by René Descartes

I think, therefore I am.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

I wouldn't expect anything else from you, and the answer is yes. There is absolutely nothing in life that tells me that we're anything more than what I explained in my initial post. Nothing at all.

While I certainly believe that nothing matters in life, it is impossible to live by such "rules", because of how we work. Just like how you don't follow all the rules of your sacred book.

I agree completely with Marvo. [edit] and evildoctor. although, I think one should practice some moderation, but only for optimal experience.

to OP: there is something I have to ask, it's bothered me for awhile, um...what happened to you?

Originally Posted by Noogah

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

As a side note, "I think therefore I am" is somewhat outdated.

If you want something wholly more convincing, "I experience therefore I am"

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?


I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

The natural phenomena is everything in existence as we define it. I'd think twice before calling it "nothing but". Only those who are ignorant enough to think they understand anything at all like to say things like "just lumps of atoms, chemical reactions" or think of the universe in terms of significance. An atom, a chemical reaction... In what way are they not amazing? In what way is it not amazing that this condensed energy following certain laws that we can't even begin to comprehend, ends up creating a thought which then goes to great lenghts to deny it's origin and create another, in it's own make-believe "thought universe".

I think being nothing more than "just a lump of atoms and chemical reactions", or holding the "significance of a stick", as you like to call it, is as amazing as it can get. I think that I wouldn't find anything else as existentially pleasing as this. Seriously though. Am I the only one who doesn't take the "right" to be offended by the physical, chemical or sticks and then taking an absolute standpoint of KNOWING that I AM more? I'm not saying that I am. But I think those who delude themselves with the imaginary are missing out on reality. Perhaps not though, perhaps my experience of the universe matches some priests experince of God.

It always makes me think how crazy the world really is. A person who believes in Angels and demons is sane and wise, a person who sees reality as it presents itself is ludicrus. Since when is having no more significance than a stick ludicrus?

Originally Posted by Marvo

There is absolutely nothing in life that tells me that we're anything more than what I explained in my initial post. Nothing at all.

But there is a problem. A stick simply isn't. It is only a lump of atoms. By your logic, humans are also just a lump of atoms. Therefore, by your logic, we are not. However, you are. And if a lump of atoms isn't, then what is cannot possibly be isn't. Unless of course you will argue that you don't exist, then I guess it's a different story.

Originally Posted by Marvo

Just like how you don't follow all the rules of your sacred book.

I support them all, albeit at times I fail to follow all. That isn't the point of Christianity anymore anyways. Your mixing up Jewish tradition with New Testament Christianity.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

You could've at least posted that quote in the original Latin. Cognito ergo sum.

This is the basis forthe idea that the average person's life goals of amassing belongings is pointless, that the only real value to one's life is to simply enjoy it as much as you can.

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Sure is reductionist and wrong in here.

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

Ultimately you're everything and nothing.

:)

Nice post grasshoppa, don't worry about death and that... it's all in our heads.. If life was going to end, then why hasn't it ended? It can't...

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

This.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really believe that?

You really believe you're just a lump of atoms? A chemical reaction? Everything you love and support, all that you've enjoyed, all that you've done, is nothing but the byproduct of a natural phenomena?

I don't.

In addition, I know that I AM more then just another physical trinket on the face of a physical planet. By your logic, no one has anymore significance than a stick.

No offense, but I find that to be completely ludicrous.

The only thing that separates us from sticks is a greater degree of complexity. We are matter capable of reproducing...that's really the only difference. Why should there be any sort of supernatural factor at all, when we can explain a great deal about the human body and mind with science? What we don't understand is slowly being uncovered by science, and any evidence for a supernatural explanation (such as a soul) is waning. Similarly, why should humans have a purpose at all? Thus far, it seems that life has been little more than increasing complexity...perhaps mankind as a whole has some sort of purpose, but then again, maybe not. We could be one great, cosmic accident, after all. Who knows?

Originally Posted by evildoctor

Sigh, life is wasted on some.....

Look : Even though some beleive we are just a complex chemical reaction, and that even free will does not exist, I think we can at least all agree that some things we expereince along the way are good and fun.

The meaning of life is simple really :

Get laid as much as you possibly can with as many people as you possibly can. Try everything at least once. Eat and drink everything you enjoy regually. Travel everywhere. Take mind altering substances. Indulge in all things of sense and rapture.

Embrace hedonism.

Not that hard really is it.....

I agree with most of that, with the qualification below:

Originally Posted by nerve

I agree completely with Marvo. [edit] and evildoctor. although, I think one should practice some moderation, but only for optimal experience.

to OP: there is something I have to ask, it's bothered me for awhile, um...what happened to you?

I see future problems with developing a drug habit...moderation is for the optimization of life.

Originally Posted by MementoMori

Not the meaning but a very good means to reach it... The way of Hedonism takes a step in the right direction.

On Topic: Yes, the body is a group of molecules, a simple compression of energy. It operates for a matter of time and then returns to the flow of energy. We, me and you, are not our body, we are not our brains or our skin, we're not our muscles or our nerves. We're the life our body lives.
Foe me i've come to understand that the meaning to life is to live. Nothing else, but live to it's fullest. We're the love and the hurt, the hate and the happiness. We are the experience gathered and collected.

I agree with most of this. Live live to its best, squeeze it for every drop of pleasure (long-lasting happiness, not instant gratification, necessarily). We have no evidence for an afterlife...you get what you get. (Take this debate to the other thread, please).

Originally Posted by Xei

lol
No, this is illogical. If there is no inherent quality in living life now, why would life in the future (after death) give your life any quality either?

The fact is there is quality in life. No, there is probably not any inherent meaning to the universe, which means that we're alone in the universe. For some reason we have a problem coping with that but it's not really a negative thing. We make our own meaning in life. Whether that's to improve life for other people or just to have a good time.

This philosophy is called existentialism, it's a reaction to nihilism.

I'm fairly certain I agree with most of this...

Now, some view the possibility of a lack of an afterlife as troubling, disturbing, etc. but keep this in mind: you won't be around for any of it. You live, you die, and no more, not even an eternity of nothingness. The collection of experiences that is you ultimately dies and is eroded by the sands of time. This is not to say that life is absolutely pointless and everyone should just kill themselves now; indeed, quite the opposite is true. Go nuts! Your time is ticking...do something with it.

The point of life is love and to do good to other people. There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

Originally Posted by Praise

The point of life is love and to do good to other people. There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

First sentence: Top tier

Second sentence: Ruining and belittling first sentence tier.

Originally Posted by Praise

The point of life is love and to do good to other people.

I agree with this.

There is an afterlife you are an eternal soul.

I do not agree with this. I believe we did some debating in the other thread and reached a general consensus of "nobody knows jack shit about the afterlife." Please stop referring to it as if it is absolute truth.

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

Originally Posted by Praise

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

I am Aslan, the great lion.

Originally Posted by Praise

My source tells of many people that have had near death experiences and told of what happens to them after they were dead. Before they were revived. I believe that this is evidence of life after death.

Evidence ≠ proof. This is an unexplained phenomena, and is in no way conclusive proof for the existence of an afterlife.

/debate

Originally Posted by Marvo

The real answer is that there's absolutely no point in life really. There's no greater meaning, purpose, understanding or any other thing. Ultimately you're just a cluster of atoms that happen to work in a certain way.

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just to numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just top numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

I do this almost every night. Most relaxing thing in the world.

-

But for the people who just think we are a bunch of atoms with no purpose.. that is just weird to me. Yes we are atoms, but what is the point in ANYTHING in existence if nothing matters at all? Really, stop and think about it. Just think about it reaaaal hard. If you still fully believe that, you should just kill yourself now. Not trying to be mean, but hell, it doesn't matter now does it? You're just a bunch of atoms, no one cares about you and you will be forgotten in a couple years... and COMPLETELY forgotten in 100 years or less.

I get and completely understand where the "theory" comes from, I just don't get it though. I honestly don't even give a shit if it actually is true. I'd rather go through life thinking it is meaningful than going through life thinking everything you do will even be forgotten by yourself one day, and that everything in existence is just a cycle of randomness created by randomness.


I love topics like this though, I really do thank the people that think other wise. It helps me ponder and expand my thinking..

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

If you go outside at night and lay on the grass and stare at the sky, Its pretty easy to tell that theres something else going on. Some people are just to numb to feel it. Modern life makes us that way.

Yeah, or you know, it could just be that all those little dots in the sky are big balls of nuclear fusion reactions caused by hydrogen atoms in the plasma state colliding together to form helium, carbon, and other elements taking place hundreds of thousands, even millions and billions of light years away. Is that so hard to accept? Why does there have to be something else out there?

Isn’t this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you’re so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
“To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet… is just fucking silly”
Or something like that.
Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
That’s ok.
But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long as my great great great great uncles and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.

In all actuality, there is an incredibly overwhelming possibility that we really are no more than organized clumps of atoms. That said, we still have the capacity (or at least delusion) that we can think, have free will, and enjoy ourselves, which is why we don't cut ourselves short. You don't need a purpose or a reason to enjoy life.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Why does there have to be something else out there?

My opinion is that it is a type of anthropomorphism (for the lack of a better word), where people detect the influence or prescence of humans or another intellegent entity in otherwise natural phenomenon.

I know anthropomorphism isn't the correct word for this, but it comes the closest to describing the human tendency to detect the influence of supernatural beings in natural phenomenon among the words that I know.

Hey Mario, big thanks just for the quote!!! What's that from/ who wrote it?
Also, I think a big part of the problem on this thread is... just exactly what is meant by the word PUROPSE?

How can a person have a purpose?

An oil filter has a purpose... to filter oil. That's its purpose because that's what it was designed and made to do. Does a flower have a purpose? You could say it's purpose is to reproduce... heck, if that's a purpose, then I guess all animals share that one. But that's only a 'PURPOSE' in the biological sense. Is a flower's purpose maybe to look pretty or smell pretty? No, it indeed DOES those things, but they're not its PURPOSE... it evolved those traits.

A purpose means something you were MADE to do... and so the very use of the term implies intelligent design.

I say we have no purpose... we have something far far better. We have freedom to explore and think and love and dream.

Far better to be a free agent in a meaningless world than the slave of a mad god.

... To those who believe we do have a purpose... what exactly is that purpose?

Here is what the quote is originally from:

Originally Posted by Mario92

Here is what the quote is originally from:

Thanks for posting that, I love Michlin.