Thread: The Nature of Satan

Long story short: God probably doesn't exist, neither does Satan, this thread has become rather pointless, and has digressed into a discussion of whether or not Good and Evil are human constructs. The phenomenon over Egypt has come into play, and so has abiogenesis.

So, in summation, you've been thread jacked , we're having a fun debate, and if you call in a lock, so help me, I will strangle you refuse to acknowledge your existence.

Okay. Thankyou very much.

I got everything you except for "The phenomenon over Egypt has come into play"

Would you briefly explain this?

Oh, and don't worry. I won't call a lock.

Thank you, thank you and thank you.

In discussing whether or not God exists, someone up there posted a comment about open-mindedness, to which I countered with my traditional video. He went on to accuse me of being too close-minded, then cited that the virgin mary's image supposedly showed up over the pyramids in egypt. I found a video on youtube, and quite frankly, it looks like ball lighting or some other atmospheric phenomenon.

Originally Posted by Mario92

No, you wouldn't. Molecules do not think, they do not have desires, nor minds of their own. They are not guided by some divine power. They are inanimate. You do not expect a rock to express its desires to you.

Of course not, so they aren't by themselves out of any will of their own replicate and evolve.

The random ribosome and other proteins that happen to be right next to it.

Okay if only you knew how this stuff worked, you need ribosomes, some big enzymes, and an energetic phosphate bond to give them the kick. Who comes first the chick or the egg, the enzymes that weren't translated or the encoded DNA with nothing to translate it, kind of left in the dark. Unless, the divine spark! This is like quicksand to your logic.

Dude, there are a million and one variables. A few eye witness reports and sketchy videos don't prove a damn thing. That actually looks a great deal like ball lightning...I can tell you, I didn't see any virgin mary in that video.

Always in or over a church! And you can see it's the shape of Mary at least and there's some real movement.

Okay, I've got to ask...who defined prostitution as immoral? Just asking...

Everybody, including feminists. Women selling themselves for sex, I mean comon that's a healthy good lifestyle??

Second, there's a helluva lot of work that goes into a utopia...it isn't just as simple as the golden rule, though I'm sure you already knew this.

It would stop crime, really all kinds of bad things we do to each other would stop. That's a solid step forward.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

Of course not, so they aren't by themselves out of any will of their own replicate and evolve.

What the hell makes you think they have a desire to grow and evolve? You're looking too much into the biological processes of life, which are basically little more than self-sustaining chemical reactions.

Okay if only you knew how this stuff worked, you need ribosomes, some big enzymes, and an energetic phosphate bond to give them the kick. Who comes first the chick or the egg, the enzymes that weren't translated or the encoded DNA with nothing to translate it, kind of left in the dark. Unless, the divine spark! This is like quicksand to your logic.

Dude, I've taken AP Biology, and am currently enrolled in two chemistry courses. Drop the condescending tone. Now, I know how transcription, translation, and protein formation occurs. You seem to be missing the part where there are billions of years and numerous extreme conditions, as well as increasingly complex chemicals and organic compounds. Don't you think that given such conditions, there is a tiny chance that a protein could perhaps fold itself correctly? Is it so inconceivable that the right organic compounds could perhaps get together and form a rudimentary unicellular organism?

Always in or over a church! And you can see it's the shape of Mary at least and there's some real movement.

Whoopdie-doo. It still proves absolutely nothing.

Everybody, including feminists. Women selling themselves for sex, I mean comon that's a healthy good lifestyle??

Monkeys don't seem to take issue with it...
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...700821,00.html
http://simplecomplexity.net/super-freakonomics/

...and besides that, studies show that if the practice were regulated, conditions would improve vastly for all involved. Just saying...it seems like it isn't going to go away on its own anytime soon.

It would stop crime, really all kinds of bad things we do to each other would stop. That's a solid step forward.

Yeah, a step forward. Too bad it will never happen. People will always be fighting over something, stealing from others, etc etc etc. Paradise-engineering is a very complex little game...

As far as prostitution goes I'm sticking with my view that it is immoral. I was trying to point out that looking at immorality as evil skews your judgement. Fight not with dragons lest ye become a dragon, as the famous Nietche quote goes.

I was trying to point out that just because something is immoral doesn't mean you should go to jail. We have a completely ridiculous way of dealing with our problems as a society, I was trying to show that this is mainly because almost all people of power in this country are/were christian, and christian morality is based on the absolute word of God, rather than the constantly changing reality that we actually inhabit.

As far as a utopia goes, I don't think all the bad things have to stop in order for us to have a "utopia". All we have to do is stop demonizing other people. We could easily deal with the problems we face as a society if we stopped fighting everything. Our prison system creates more crime than it prevents. The war on drugs is responsible for the creation of crack and meth.

Like when I spill a glass of milk, I don't smash the glass to pevent it from spilling again, I clean up the mess.

Also I'd like to pose the question again, How did "evil" come to be? Are humans inherintly defective and they need a big space daddy to tell them what is right and wrong? Or is it just that we don't reflect on what it is that we are doing to each other?

I've already said that I think the worship of power is what causes this. This includes and is the same theing as the worship of God.

Morality is a sham. If all people were to live their lives doing whatever they wanted to do, so long as it didn't directly infringe on the rights or harm others, then the world we be a better place. Enough of this unfounded "sex is bad", "gays should die", etc.

Originally Posted by Mario92

What the hell makes you think they have a desire to grow and evolve? You're looking too much into the biological processes of life, which are basically little more than self-sustaining chemical reactions.


Dude, I've taken AP Biology, and am currently enrolled in two chemistry courses. Drop the condescending tone. Now, I know how transcription, translation, and protein formation occurs. You seem to be missing the part where there are billions of years and numerous extreme conditions, as well as increasingly complex chemicals and organic compounds. Don't you think that given such conditions, there is a tiny chance that a protein could perhaps fold itself correctly? Is it so inconceivable that the right organic compounds could perhaps get together and form a rudimentary unicellular organism?

When the conditions change, and they go out of their way to create energy to maintain their little cellular environments, you kind of cross the line of random things happening into things happening on purpose. You would probably even agree that random inanimate things don't manipulate themselves like a master engineer, they have no reason too.

Originally Posted by stonedape

I was trying to point out that just because something is immoral doesn't mean you should go to jail. We have a completely ridiculous way of dealing with our problems as a society, I was trying to show that this is mainly because almost all people of power in this country are/were christian, and christian morality is based on the absolute word of God, rather than the constantly changing reality that we actually inhabit.

I don't really see it that way, society in general is actually pretty anti-Christianity and indifferent to morality. You could get in trouble in some places with a cross around your neck. I live in Alabama, a very conservative state so it's different. Oh, and God forbid you say anything about homosexuals.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

When the conditions change, and they go out of their way to create energy to maintain their little cellular environments, you kind of cross the line of random things happening into things happening on purpose. You would probably even agree that random inanimate things don't manipulate themselves like a master engineer, they have no reason too.

...and do you know why these organisms adapt? Let's continue with the unicellular organism example, for the sake of simplicity. The single-celled critter in question receives signals in the form of, yeah, chemical reactions that "tell" it that conditions have changed. This causes other chemical reactions to take place and allow the organism to adjust to the new environment. Science explains this beautifully. Dragging any sort of intelligent force into the equation only creates more questions than answers, and is also wholly unnecessary.

I don't really see it that way, society in general is actually pretty anti-Christianity and indifferent to morality. You could get in trouble in some places with a cross around your neck. I live in Alabama, a very conservative state so it's different. Oh, and God forbid you say anything about homosexuals.

Shit, are you kidding? America is so vastly religious, it's ridiculous. Go try being an atheist in Alabama and tell me about persecution. Religion is so ingrained into society that it's sickening. Non-religious people make up about 16% of the general population, which is a friggin' huge minority, larger than blacks, jews, and homosexuals...combined. And yet, all these groups have a say in Congress and can be elected...save for atheists. The atheists are perhaps one of the most under-represented groups in America today. I have never seen someone get called out for wearing a cross.

It's true. I'm Canadian, which is a less religious but maybe more spiritual country, but atheism is still frowned upon. I've been called a devil worshiper (which is in and of itself ironic as no god = no satan.) I think it's just ignorance on the theists' behalves. Atheists generally know more about both religion and atheism

Originally Posted by Conkt

It's true. I'm Canadian, which is a less religious but maybe more spiritual country, but atheism is still frowned upon. I've been called a devil worshiper (which is in and of itself ironic as no god = no satan.) I think it's just ignorance on the theists' behalves. Atheists generally know more about both religion and atheism

Serious? Atheism is not frowned on here. I thought Canadia was cooler than that.

I've been called the devil once, by some old black guy on a prague subway. I was playing with a pack of cards.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Serious? Atheism is not frowned on here. I thought Canadia was cooler than that.

I've been called the devil once, by some old black guy on a prague subway. I was playing with a pack of cards.

Were they Satan cards?

Oh, and a note about persecution of Christians in America: I grew up in a borderline fundie environment. We were all taught about how persecuted we were as Christians. I learned how strange that was when I saw the popular kids at prayer meetings, and all the bullies sitting nicely in church.

By the way, I'm still recovering from the psychological damage the brainwashing did to me. Do you know how psychologically dangerous fundamentalism can be? I sure do.

Fundamentalism is bad, m'kay?

How do you live with yourself Noogah? You know that Noah's Arc is bullshit, but you just keep defending it. You know that Lucifer is not fuckin Satan, because I must've already explained a million times. You could look in a Hebrew version of Isaiah and see that the word is not there but I bet you still believe otherwise. It's like when we insult the bible and expose it for what it is (a book), we've got you by the balls and you'll do absolutely anything to keep yourself believing.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Do you have an alternative to taking it literally? Everything it says has proven true to me...

Funny. I never saw a contradiction. You might want to show me one.

You self deluded fuckknut!

The more I try to convince you the more energy I waste in my motor neurones. Just google the damn thing because you obviously never fucking have.

Originally Posted by OuroborosEterna

By the way, I'm still recovering from the psychological damage the brainwashing did to me. Do you know how psychologically dangerous fundamentalism can be? I sure do.

It's pretty fucked up, man. When I first found out that I felt an attraction to the same sex, I was devastated. And this occurred during a point in my life when I was a relatively liberal Christian who was totally fine with homosexuality. I ended up getting over it, and my faith all together, but being imprinted with such negative things at such an early age does a number on your emotional health.

its a shame the name lucifer had to be associated with evil. I actually think the name is wonderful and would love to name one of my sons that...unfrotunately I cant because of those connotations.

Originally Posted by Catbus

It's pretty fucked up, man. When I first found out that I felt an attraction to the same sex, I was devastated. And this occurred during a point in my life when I was a relatively liberal Christian who was totally fine with homosexuality. I ended up getting over it, and my faith all together, but being imprinted with such negative things at such an early age does a number on your emotional health.

It sure does. Glad you found your way out!

And TKDYO, I completely agree with you...Lucifer is one of my favorite names. It really is a shame that the Morning Star gets such a bad rap.

"Come here, little Lucifer! You'll be late for dinner."

...that is an awesome name. Damn the xtians for ruining it!

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/29600

Power to the Light Bringer! And Mario, I've seen that picture before and it is hilarious.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

its a shame the name lucifer had to be associated with evil.

It's actually a lot harder to name someone Satan.

When I was a kid we had a black retriever named Satan. My mom actually wanted to name him Lucifer, but didn't for fear others would call him Lucy.

I didn't read all your post... only the biblical references. I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been adressed... but the 'Lucifer' refered to here

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Is definately not referring to satan, but to a king... a very human king. I suggest you use any resources you have, like books or google scholar, and get a firm grasp of who the 'satan', who the 'devil', and who 'Lucifer' are... you'll find many interesting things. Many new age christians have the idea that Lucifer, satan, the devil, a fallen angel, are all the same deity... but they are most certainly not. So, if you hacven't already been told this (which I hope you have, since this thread is 7 pages long) then please go now and clearly define for yourself the differences. I'd like to explain it all for you, but it would probably take 2 or 3 fulls posts... and also I'm not to good with explaining things so I'd probably muck it up somehow. So... for your own benefit, you should learn in-depth the difference between a satan, devil, and lucifer.

Of course, there are lots of different "theories" about the beings behind the names as well. If I remember correctly, Theosophists hold Lucifer in high regard as the Light Bringer, an entity of love and friend to mankind. (Were you making a Theosophical reference, Conkt?)

If I remember incorrectly, I expect to be schooled.