Thread: The Nature of Satan

Originally Posted by Idolfan

You tell me, please, what has been taken out of context? What is there to take out of context?

Dude. There's nothing to discuss. It's not some kind of frantic excuse. I didn't even need to think about it. It's clear and simple to understand, and if you refuse to acknowledge it, I am not insulting you by saying you are seriously biased. However, you will obviously not leave me alone unless I explain myself, so I will:

You cannot cut three words out of a 1,000+ word chapter, and expect it to make the same sense it was supposed to make when it was in the Bible, or any other book for that matter. It erases the cause, it erases the events leading up to it, and it erases what happens afterwords. I'm not going to flood you with examples, because I don't believe you need them. I think you know exactly what I'm talking about, and I think you know exactly the flaws of quoting out of context. If you SERIOUSLY don't understand the concept of quoting things out of context, then read this Wikipedia article.

I don't care if you won't admit to this, but you obviously just skimmed over all of the texts and brushed it aside in your head with this automatic response.

Of course I admit to it. I saw a bunch of patches cut out of the Bible, and immediately knew what was up.

This is something that you must accept, so why do you respond negatively?

Oh, well of course. I didn't think you meant THAT. Answer's simple:

It happened before incest was forbidden. LONG before. And it wasn't a very strange concept either, seeing as there was no one else around getting married. It was only natural.

Also, no. God doesn't change, but his rules did. Even so, he never "changed" his rule on incest, as he never specifically forbade it, nor did he permit it before he made it against the rules. That is to my knowledge.

It would be much better for you to take a non literal approach to the bible, it's embarassing and it is so obvious that the bible contradicts itself all over the place.

Do you have an alternative to taking it literally? Everything it says has proven true to me...

Funny. I never saw a contradiction. You might want to show me one.

if you think it is then explain to us why you still believed the bible was the word of God even though it never speaks of Jesus ever commanding anyone to write down anything.

Because Jesus acknowledged the written word of God, and even quoted it on occasion.

The word of God should be Jesus' words

Yes. Father/Son/Holy Ghost.

On the other hand, we in the fields of reality understand that his words clearly have been changed, by looking at archaeological evidence, while the rest of the Christian world have not evolved past their preference of new books simply because they are not tatty.

1.No they haven't. If you still insist that they do, demonstrate.

2.What? Tatty? Is that really what you think? Really?

Why is that a good thing? If Noah hadn't been spared then I wouldn't be on my way to hell would I?

You wouldn't even exist. Body, or soul.

Originally Posted by stonedape

There is only one thing that has been called water....What is your perspective?

True, maybe water isn't the best analogy. Let's use human's.

Indians.

Asians

Caucasians.

Mexicans.

Africans.

Germans.

In the end, they're all human.

If he wants it why doesn't he just make it happen?

If he did that, what about the poor bloaks who wouldn't get a shot at salvation? He's giving us time.

Originally Posted by Noogah

True, maybe water isn't the best analogy. Let's use human's.

Indians.

Asians

Caucasians.

Mexicans.

Africans.

Germans.

In the end, they're all human.

But only humans are called humans. There aren't certain people who call rocks humans. Evil is in the eye of the beholder. I've been told that premarital sex is evil. I have also been told that killing people is evil. Now these two things have completely opposite effects, and very different sensations are produced by both. How can they both be evil? One feels good, the other feels bad. One creates life, one destroys it. I smell something funny.

Why are somethings called evil? Does evil "exist" in the same ways that water or humanity does? Does it describe certain characteristics? How can I tell if something is evil or not?

I've spent my entire life trying to get a hold of some pure evil, and I can't find it anywhere. It seems almost like it doesn't exist, like it was just a word that someone put in my head to scare me away from the good stuff.

Do you really not understand the question? What is evil? You've avoided answering it 3 times now. Now THAT's evil.

Originally Posted by Noogah

If he did that, what about the poor bloaks who wouldn't get a shot at salvation? He's giving us time.

Why wait? Salvation is all around you.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Evil is in the eye of the beholder.

But you see, it is your point of view that makes it an impossible question for me. I don't believe mankind can choose what, or what is not evil, and I don't believe I have the authority to say so. As you said: You can call a rock a human, yet it will remain a rock. I believe the same applies to evil. You can call something evil, or good, but it will remain what it is.

If I can decide what is evil, then what if to me, murder is not an evil? How about I go murder your best friend/sibling/spouse/parents? Would you prosecute me? Well,I'm gonna assume your answer is yes. But, by your logic, the answer should certainly be NO. Because, it was right to me, was it not? So what right have you to tell me that what I did was wrong? If the government followed your same example, they would probably say, sorry man. It was right by him, so no consequences. You would want justice, right? You might murder me, as it would be right by you. That would lead to mass chaos, and somewhere along the line, the apocalypse would occur.

Anyways, I'm not avoiding the question, you're avoiding my answer: My answer is, I can't call the shots. What is evil is evil, and unless you are very depraved, you should pretty much get a gut feeling for what is evil and what is not. Being mortal, I don't believe we can identify evil 100%, although I believe it's there. That is one of (but not the only, mind you) reasons God gives Christian's the Holy Spirit at salvation: So that the Christian can clearly distinguish between what is right and wrong.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Why wait? Salvation is all around you.

Good question! Ask the people who don't listen.

Originally Posted by Noogah

But you see, it is your point of view that makes it an impossible question for me. I don't believe mankind can choose what, or what is not evil, and I don't believe I have the authority to say so. As you said: You can call a rock a human, yet it will remain a rock. I believe the same applies to evil. You can call something evil, or good, but it will remain what it is.

If I can decide what is evil, then what if to me, murder is not an evil? How about I go murder your best friend/sibling/spouse/parents? Would you prosecute me? Well,I'm gonna assume your answer is yes. But, by your logic, the answer should certainly be NO. Because, it was right to me, was it not? So what right have you to tell me that what I did was wrong? If the government followed your same example, they would probably say, sorry man. It was right by him, so no consequences. You would want justice, right? You might murder me, as it would be right by you. That would lead to mass chaos, and somewhere along the line, the apocalypse would occur.

Anyways, I'm not avoiding the question, you're avoiding my answer: My answer is, I can't call the shots. What is evil is evil, and unless you are very depraved, you should pretty much get a gut feeling for what is evil and what is not. Being mortal, I don't believe we can identify evil 100%, although I believe it's there. That is one of (but not the only, mind you) reasons God gives Christian's the Holy Spirit at salvation: So that the Christian can clearly distinguish between what is right and wrong.

This raises so many problems...

First of all, how do you know that what you believe to be "evil" really is evil? What if your God smiles upon raping and killing? There is no way to know for sure within this lifetime if this is the case or not.

Second, if evil truly is beyond mankind (which also implies it is a tangible force in this universe), then it suppresses the growth of the human race, as it does not allow for changes and adaptions (though you'd probably see this problem more clearly if you believed in evolution).

Third, WTF? Seriously? Society tells you what is good and what is evil, and every society in the world is different and unique. Good and evil are SUBJECTIVE, not objective. Unless, of course, you're saying that only the Christian culture as defined by yourself with your values will go to heaven, and all else will burn in hell, which is something I take great issue with.

Originally Posted by Mario92

What if your God smiles upon raping and killing? There is no way to know for sure within this lifetime if this is the case or not.

He does not. The Holy Spirit, as well as the Bible easily confirm that.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Second, if evil truly is beyond mankind (which also implies it is a tangible force in this universe), then it suppresses the growth of the human race, as it does not allow for changes and adaptions

....no. There are obstacles in life that must be overcome, and those encourage growth. They do not discourage it. Evil exists, and should be avoided. The avoidance of evil does not hinder mankind's "growth", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Originally Posted by Mario92

you're saying that only the Christian culture as defined by yourself with your values will go to heaven

Evil is not subjective. It is indeed objective. Many foreign societies seem to believe that killing, and terrorism is very much right. Do you agree?

No, society does not choose it. Evil is there. All that must be done is to identify it.


You make the mistake of believing I look to my Christian brothers for moral guidelines. Well, I don't. There is only one I look to for help in these areas, and that is God. He is pure. There is no evil in him. Because of that, what is not of him is evil. That is, spiritually. It's like light as opposed to darkness. Once the light switches on, you can suddenly see what is what, and distingusih the darkness from the light.

Originally Posted by Noogah

He does not. The Holy Spirit, as well as the Bible easily confirm that.

...oh, boy. There really is no use in arguing with you, ya know that?

....no. There are obstacles in life that must be overcome, and those encourage growth. They do not discourage it. Evil exists, and should be avoided. The avoidance of evil does not hinder mankind's "growth", whatever that's supposed to mean.

It means that mankind is not allowed to evolve, adapt, and change its moral code as needed, which could be of definite hindrance, especially in the future.

Evil is not subjective. It is indeed objective. Many foreign societies seem to believe that killing, and terrorism is very much right. Do you agree?

And who are we to judge another culture's values and beliefs? Terrorism is "evil" to us in that it kills what we consider to be innocent individuals, but to the terrorists, it is "good" in that it destroys those unfit to live and puts otherwise superior nations in their place. It's all subjective.

No, society does not choose it. Evil is there. All that must be done is to identify it.

Let me guess, by using the bible, right?

You make the mistake of believing I look to my Christian brothers for moral guidelines. Well, I don't. There is only one I look to for help in these areas, and that is God. He is pure. There is no evil in him. Because of that, what is not of him is evil. That is, spiritually. It's like light as opposed to darkness. Once the light switches on, you can suddenly see what is what, and distingusih the darkness from the light.

I'll repeat myself: there really is no point in trying to argue with you.

Originally Posted by Noogah

He does not. The Holy Spirit, as well as the Bible easily confirm that.



....no. There are obstacles in life that must be overcome, and those encourage growth. They do not discourage it. Evil exists, and should be avoided. The avoidance of evil does not hinder mankind's "growth", whatever that's supposed to mean.



Evil is not subjective. It is indeed objective. Many foreign societies seem to believe that killing, and terrorism is very much right. Do you agree?

No, society does not choose it. Evil is there. All that must be done is to identify it.


You make the mistake of believing I look to my Christian brothers for moral guidelines. Well, I don't. There is only one I look to for help in these areas, and that is God. He is pure. There is no evil in him. Because of that, what is not of him is evil. That is, spiritually. It's like light as opposed to darkness. Once the light switches on, you can suddenly see what is what, and distingusih the darkness from the light.

assertions assertions assertions ...

Originally Posted by Noogah

But you see, it is your point of view that makes it an impossible question for me. I don't believe mankind can choose what, or what is not evil, and I don't believe I have the authority to say so. As you said: You can call a rock a human, yet it will remain a rock. I believe the same applies to evil. You can call something evil, or good, but it will remain what it is.

How does my point of view prevent you from answering the question? You can answer the question, I may not understand your explanation, but we can't find out unless you answer the question. What is so evil? If you do not have the authority to say what is evil then who does? If you do not have the authority to say why does your gut? Can't you take the signals given to you by your gut and articulate them?

We do choose what is evil and what is not. Our culture tells us what is good and what is evil. Religion is a part of culture, and for you religion tells you what is evil. You chose religion didn't you?

Originally Posted by Noogah

If I can decide what is evil, then what if to me, murder is not an evil? How about I go murder your best friend/sibling/spouse/parents? Would you prosecute me? Well,I'm gonna assume your answer is yes. But, by your logic, the answer should certainly be NO. Because, it was right to me, was it not? So what right have you to tell me that what I did was wrong? If the government followed your same example, they would probably say, sorry man. It was right by him, so no consequences. You would want justice, right? You might murder me, as it would be right by you. That would lead to mass chaos, and somewhere along the line, the apocalypse would occur.

Why is murder evil? Something doesn't have to be evil in order for me to prosecute you over it. I would be very sad if my friends or family were killed, but I still wouldn't consider you evil. I would consider you insane. I would think that the best thing that could happen now that they are gone is that you could maybe get some help. I don't see where evilness or punishment needs to come in.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Anyways, I'm not avoiding the question, you're avoiding my answer: My answer is, I can't call the shots. What is evil is evil, and unless you are very depraved, you should pretty much get a gut feeling for what is evil and what is not. Being mortal, I don't believe we can identify evil 100%, although I believe it's there. That is one of (but not the only, mind you) reasons God gives Christian's the Holy Spirit at salvation: So that the Christian can clearly distinguish between what is right and wrong.

Do you know what's right or don't you? First you say you can't call the shots, then you say christian can clearly distinguish between right and wrong.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Do you have an alternative to taking it literally? Everything it says has proven true to me...

Funny. I never saw a contradiction. You might want to show me one.

You self deluded fuckknut!

The more I try to convince you the more energy I waste in my motor neurones. Just google the damn thing because you obviously never fucking have.