Thread: The Nature of Satan

Originally Posted by stonedape

Firstly how is someone who wants world peace evil?

Secondly, doesn't this list contradict what you are saying about supporting morals and humanism?


First you say he wants people to be happy, he wants world peace. Then you say he wants to steal, kill and destroy.

You also claim he is not against morals, yet he has no problem with lying, killing or stealing.

How exactly do you believe 2 opposing things at the same time?

Dude, I'm pretty sure Noogah has left this thread for good now..

hopefully he's doing some serious thinking.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

And if you believe every word of it then that also means you believe that Noah brought whales onto the ark (every creature with nostrils). I mean, you obviously already knew you believed this, so I was wondering... how do you think Noah managed to snatch them up?

I saw a special on natgeo (I think?) on Noah's ark, they made it clear it would not have been possible for a boat such as described in the bible to have been built at the time it was supposed to have been...and also could not have withstood the storm/flood described in the bible.

Originally Posted by nerve

I saw a special on natgeo (I think?) on Noah's ark, they made it clear it would not have been possible for a boat such as described in the bible to have been built at the time it was supposed to have been...and also could not have withstood the storm/flood described in the bible.

Let alone that no flood of the entire world ever happened, and lol: two blue whales sitting on a boat uh

I dunno, I thought there was actually a big flood, maybe not the ENTIRE EARTH but...

I know several other ancient cultures have great flood myths, like the only example I can think of is the one in Gilgamesh by the Sumerians. I'm not saying that's proof or anything, just thought it was worth mentioning.

I haven't studied this extensively or anything (because I don't care and have no reason to), but I have heard that there is proof of an epic flood. of course, I grew up (and still live) in a baptist christian family, so I'm surrounded by idiots people who jump on any supposed "proof" that they stumble upon. tell me (and feel free) am I completely retarded for thinking it is even a possibility? I mean, were all these ancient cultures really just making up stories, or is there some truth to it?

oh, and why would Noah need to put whales in the ark when they live in water and the earth was supposed to be covered in...water

Originally Posted by nerve

I dunno, I thought there was actually a big flood, maybe not the ENTIRE EARTH but...

I know several other ancient cultures have great flood myths, like the only example I can think of is the one in Gilgamesh by the Sumerians. I'm not saying that's proof or anything, just thought it was worth mentioning.

I haven't studied this extensively or anything (because I don't care and have no reason to), but I have heard that there is proof of an epic flood. of course, I grew up (and still live) in a baptist christian family, so I'm surrounded by idiots people who jump on any supposed "proof" that they stumble upon. tell me (and feel free) am I completely retarded for thinking it is even a possibility? I mean, were all these ancient cultures really just making up stories, or is there some truth to it?

There were a few large floods in the middle east

OF course everyone at the time thought that middle east=world.

They appear in religions of the same area.

It's expected that the flood stories are based on a few notably large floods in the area.

Hardly worldwide all animals died stuff, but then again the writers of the Bible are a little bit guilty of sensationalism, exaggeration and dick waving of God quite alot.

I love you too.


Also:

Originally Posted by nerve

oh, and why would Noah need to put whales in the ark when they live in water and the earth was supposed to be covered in...water

Guy has a sense of humour.

Um.....

Excuse me people,

There are two gigantic pages FILLED with atheists haggling me over stupid little details, and in one post, you expect me to answer ALL OF THEM!?

Excuse ME for skipping over a few of them!!!!!

Link me to your posts and I'll answer them.

Oh freaking brother.

Originally Posted by stonedape

You also claim he is not against morals, yet he has no problem with lying, killing or stealing. Contradiction, no?

No.

Indeed, he is not opposed to morals.

But he is not necessarily opposed to evil either.

Originally Posted by Noogah

There are two gigantic pages FILLED with atheists haggling me over stupid little details, and in one post, you expect me to answer ALL OF THEM!?

Ne-yo or ShadowNightWing would have done it for us. With added wall of text as well.

Originally Posted by Noogah

No.

Indeed, he is not opposed to morals.

But he is not necessarily opposed to evil either.

Is lying moral, or immoral?

What of stealing or killing?

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Taken out of your favorite book.

Personally, I consider these things immoral. They are permissible within certain contexts, but if you don't consider these things immoral, what do you consider immoral?

What is the difference between evil and immorality?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

But Noogah, why do you believe the books of the bible just because they happen to be in the bible? What about all the books that were excluded because some people thought they were 'unholy'?

What does this have to do with my believing in the Bible? The books that were apparently not "included" in the Bible are not in Bible, and so therefore they are NOT the Bible. And so, my words do not apply to them.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

And if you believe every word of it then that also means you believe that Noah brought whales onto the ark

No. The Bible doesn't say that they did. The blowhole on top of a whale is not a nostril, per say.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Even though it's been proven that it was added in much later.

Heh heh. The so called "evidence" provided against that passage have not impressed many scholars.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

so who are you going to believe? Evidence, or the bible?

Elementary, my dear idol. I tend to believe, both, as I think the two compliment each other quite nicely.

Originally Posted by idolfan

Have YOU got a scripture saying that Lucifer IS Satan? NO!

Aside from the fact taht I never stated he was....

have fun.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As the evidence indicates I suppose he tends to lean to the more domineering egomaniacal side if the child batterer.

Come now. I think you're intelligent enough to know that cutting and pasting verse outside of their context ruins there true meaning. Read the books that these verse are in, or at least the chapter. You will find that they actually make much sense. Of course, I could summarize just about anything falsely by simply cutting and padting parts of them.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

God created everything that exists.

Yes, and he did create Satan. However, he did not create Satan as evil.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieD

Why did God need to commit suicide to give us another chance?

Jesus was not human, but he occupied a human body. he allowed himself to be tortured, and killed in PLACE of humans. Besides that, he allowed his soul to take the guilt of all mankinds sins, and took the punishment necessary to appease them, so that we would not have to.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieD

Why was God powerless? I thought God could do anything he wanted.

God had the choice to give us a choice. he could have made you a robot if you wanted to. He could have forced you to everything he wanted you to do. But I rather doubt that you appreciate that concept. So instead, he gave them a choice, a VERY simple command, and teh command was disobeyed. Consequences ensued.

Originally Posted by stonedape

This thread is making me love Satan.

Refer to my posts.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Characteristics of Satan

1. Created by God, and not equal to God (Prov 16:4)

2. Defies God and despises truth (John 8:44)

3. Was given limited power (Job 1:8-12)

4. Was defeated at Calvary (Eph. 1:20-23)

5. Rules the masses outside God’s protection (Eph. 2:1-3)

6. Commands a hierarchy of demons (Eph. 6:10-12)

7. Came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10)

8. Masquerades as "an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14-15)

9. Tries to hide the actual truth about our God.

10. Twists the meaning of Scriptures to fit his purposes. (Gen. 3:1-5)

11. Offers counterfeit promises he can't fulfill

12. Always seeks an "opportune time" to tempt us (Luke 4:13)

NOT a very "cool" guy.

I have a hard time understanding the appeal you see in Satan.

Originally Posted by nerve

hopefully he's doing some serious thinking.

Actually, I was hoping to avoid this thread until it's popularity simmered down. Thatw ay, I could continue posting without being flooded with arguments.

It's rather difficult debating on a creationist/evolutionist ration of 1/10.

Oh well. I suppose I can't wait any longer.

Originally Posted by nerve

I saw a special on natgeo (I think?) on Noah's ark, they made it clear it would not have been possible for a boat such as described in the bible to have been built at the time it was supposed to have been...and also could not have withstood the storm/flood described in the bible.

People have no knowledge as to waht condition the earth was in before the flood.

Oh, and, yes, it could survive the conditions. A whole documentary was made on it. if you have time, watch Noah's Ark - Thinking Outside the Box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiMeNhl2VUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gapJqaLjbpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWGvdJFQPlQ

Originally Posted by Noogah

stuff

Skipped responding to my post there champ.

Also, I don't think this thread is so much about science vs creationism, rather people who think it's a lillll bit batshit fucking insane to believe every word of a book which has been warped and politically manipulated out of shape for the past 2000 years AND which was originally written by uneducated arabs in a desert society in one small corner of the world to explain what they couldn't understand, and to act as a creative output and work of art, as well as perpetuating the laws and ideologies of the time via enforcement by 'the ultimate tribal leader', that is, God.

Also I think it's mainly the old testament that's puzzling. it's FAR more reasonable to believe every word in the new testament, and even that's far out.

In which case the ratio seems far more reasonable of being 10:1

Also note the convenient side-step of the many, many contradictions he made when refering to Satan. You know, like the one where he wants world peace and harmony, and also to kill, rape, and maim. Still waiting for an answer to THAT one...

He didn't really respond to mine either. He just told me to read his posts. Can you please respond to this at least? Copypasta for you.

You also claim he is not against morals, yet he has no problem with lying, killing or stealing. Contradiction, no?

The apeal is that he wants world peace. Also it's quite difficult as a human to oppose someone who fully supports humanism.

To top it all off, it's highly likely that Satan=Dionysus, who is the only god I occasionally worship.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Come now. I think you're intelligent enough to know that cutting and pasting verse outside of their context ruins there true meaning. Read the books that these verse are in, or at least the chapter. You will find that they actually make much sense. Of course, I could summarize just about anything falsely by simply cutting and padting parts of them.

What the fuck do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

Originally Posted by stonedape

So do you still hold that Satan is evil, yet he is not opposed to morality, wants world peace etc.?

What is your definition of evil?

Also, you claim that Satan wants world peace. Does God want world peace as well?

If the God of the bible had world peace then there wouldn't be anyone else left to torture. He already tried this with the flood remember but still kept eight people alive for some reason.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

What the fuck do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

Originally Posted by stonedape

What is your definition of evil?

You may as well ask: What do you consider water? In which case, the answer would obviously be, whatever is water.

The same goes for evil. Whatever is evil, I consider evil.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Also, you claim that Satan wants world peace. Does God want world peace as well?

How strong Statan's desire for world peace is, I can't say. It may only be a small goal for him. Either way, I believe he would still like to accomplish it. And, yes, God's goal is for world peace, as is shown to happen after the seven year tribulation.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

What the **** do you mean 'taken outside of context'?

I mean precisely what I said: Taken outside of the text that it what was connected to. When this is done, the perspective of how it was being used is lost.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

He already tried this with the flood remember but still kept eight people alive for some reason.

Not for SOME reason. Not for a random senseless reason.

Originally Posted by Genesis 6:5-7; King James Version

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

And the reason Noah found grace is revealed in the next chapter.

Originally Posted by Genesis 7:1;King James Version

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Noah was spared because amidst all the evils of the world, he was righteous. And if he hadn't, you wouldn't be where you are as you read.

Originally Posted by evildoctor

there's rather a lot of it in the bible

Evildoctor, the Bible cannot help what is history. The world is bad. Sorry. Incest happened/happens/will continue to happen. And what do you mean "there's a lot of it"? I only recall one instance at the moment. And considering that the Old Testament alone spanned around 3,500 years, even 5-10 instances wouldn't be a whole lot.

Now go on.

Go Google "incest in the bible" so that you can come back here and paste all the verses that make reference to it.