Thread: Believers who hear the truth

Oh question

What was up with like the old testament.

Shit's fucked up.

Idolfan. It's not a matter that you are happy in heaven. Rather you are happy to do gods work which creates heaven. All are saved through the power of love. Love is the way to life. Gods will based on love is free choice. Justice is cause and effect. You get what you give. Jesus gave his life and in doing so gained it.

Scatterbrain
I don't seek to prove god to others with reasons. Rather I live to give testimony to the truth. I take the bible as a historical text which has been altered over time. But the word of god is through me. What god wants is all that is good. Obedience to god is therefore living in love. I know this because I know truth and it seems obvious to me.

Originally Posted by Praise

Idolfan. It's not a matter that you are happy in heaven. Rather you are happy to do gods work which creates heaven. All are saved through the power of love.

I don't think you have the right to say what you're supposed to be happy about in heaven. A-you haven't been there; B-your whole religion and beliefs are based on free will - individuality:

Now, by saying that heaven is not a matter of happiness means that technically heaven can be hell. Which is the strangest view of heaven I've ever seen and contradictory to its very nature.

If your response to this is that I'm making a strawman argument, then that's because you didn't really answer his question. As a matter of fact, your response implies that everybody in heaven is an automaton working as a slave for God, a satisfied slave, but a slave nonetheless. I'd accept this as a valid answer to the question "how can there be happiness in heaven while hell exists", if it didn't contradict the other part you claim - that we have individuality and free will.

It is not justice to be manipulated into something you're not. If I was a Christian and sent to heaven, I couldn't experience it (as Idolfan said) because of all the suffering. For God to sort this out would mean changing my soul, which creates instant injustice, since he could've done the same for those in hell at any time.

All are saved through the pover of love? Through what kind of power do those who go to hell go? I thought God was all about love, how can there be love in this hell deal?

Originally Posted by Praise

Justice is cause and effect. You get what you give.

Now another thing. If justice is cause and effect, then why isn't there justice done upon God? He is the cause and we are the effect. He should be blamed for everything that ever happened. God gave everybody, everything anybody has ever gotten, including themselves. And trust me, there are tons of bad things that were given. When will God get what he gave? Never, right?

Originally Posted by Praise

All are saved through the power of love. Love is the way to life. Gods will based on love is free choice.

How can God's will be based on love after all the bad things God did as stated in the Bible.

Originally Posted by Praise

Jesus gave his life and in doing so gained it.

About Jesus giving his life... Does that mean if I commit suicide I will gain it? That sentence doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Praise

Idolfan. It's not a matter that you are happy in heaven. Rather you are happy to do gods work which creates heaven. All are saved through the power of love. Love is the way to life. Gods will based on love is free choice. Justice is cause and effect. You get what you give. Jesus gave his life and in doing so gained it.

So effectively we're God's slaves?

Of course I will not be happy doing God's work in heaven if he's torturing the rest of humanity. That's like saying I'd be happy as a Nazi working for Hitler.

But I'll accept this so far. If you take a literalistic biblical approach then you have all of Bonsay's points to answer (as well as the rest of those in my last post), however I think the afterlife is perfectly plausible without this approach. And, to give you an honest reason, I am not going to argue that the bible is fallable, because it should be so obvious in the first place! Bishop John Shelby Spong has a book entitled The Sins Of Scripture which should make it *extremely* clear, as well as Saving The Bible From Fundamentalism.

So, I'm going to accept that justice is in fact cause and effect. I would rather stick to my own view of an impersonal God than try to use your own views against you (this way I get something out of it). So, due to some metaphysical explaination, there is an apparent heaven and hell in the spirit world.

Since God is supposed to be all loving and all powerful. "Love never fails", "All things are possible with God", "The way of God is perfect", "Christ paid the penalty for all" etc. etc. then how is it possible for people to stay in hell forever? At some point the souls will either escape, be helped by God's angels, or choose to stay. God isn't going to force people to stay because that would not be useful. What's the point in staying there once you want to move on and you've learned your lesson? When Christians say that God is going to make these people suffer, it comes across to me as insane blasphemy, because it totally demeans the power and character of God.

I will repeat again: since we are all a part of God, how is it possible for one of us to suffer forever? God needs to be complete.

You didn't really answer my questions...

(What reason tells you that the overpowered being (god) spoken of in the bible is real?)

Originally Posted by Praise

Rather I live to give testimony to the truth. I take the bible as a historical text which has been altered over time. But the word of god is through me.

You just said you take the bible is true because you know it is, that begs the question: Then what reason tells you that the bible is true?


(How do you know what 'god' wants us to do?)

What god wants is all that is good. Obedience to god is therefore living in love. I know this because I know truth and it seems obvious to me.

'I know because it's true' is not an answer...

And if 'god' wants us just to live in love, why follow all the other Christian rituals and beliefs?



(And why do you think we should obey?)

This third question wasn't even addressed.

Originally Posted by Praise

Scatterbrain
I don't seek to prove god to others with reasons.

Then what? 'Believe because I tell you to'?

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Oh question

What was up with like the old testament.

Shit's fucked up.

Don't ask me I didn't write it.

Originally Posted by Praise

Don't ask me I didn't write it.

iight dat cool

Originally Posted by Praise

Don't ask me I didn't write it.

This has to be the most pathetic cop out I have seen for a long time.

You did not write the NT either - therefore by your "logic" (or lack thereof) you must be equally unqualified to comment upon this also.