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How about being a Human Being leads to immoral behavior.
Everyone is immoral, I don't follow your morals, you don't follow mine.
I want to take the time to ask why these topics keep coming up.
Is it because you are trying to convince us to change?
Is it because you still need a reason to convince yourself you are on the right path?
Is it because you want others to question their own faith?
Please...these topics only bring forth bad feelings.
There's something wrong with that data, ignore it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Invader
Regardless, those people are still being accounted for, I just did not highlight them. Furthermore, should not Atheists, by your logic, have significantly higher imprison rates?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarsier
In addition, people will believe an adhere to a lot of things in the face of death - it's called desperation. This does not necessitate sincerity nor genuine behaviour. But that is not the point.
You made the argument that people would do evil unless under the threat of punishment (afterlife). However, there are many people who do good for no other reason than doing good (like myself) and not indulging into grand evils.
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That was my thought upon reading the original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by davej
That's not to say that all Christians won't admit to immoral behavior, of course, but it seems to me that if they do it won't be to a survey taker but to their priest/minister.
Morality comes down to the individual, in the end, and the value they place on their own system of morality vs. the satisfaction of their desires.
Well aren't you just a saint. =pQuote:
Originally Posted by O'nus
It really is quite common. People tend to act in their own self-interest, and I can tell you, I'm not exactly eager to go shoot up a place or start driving drunk. The risks simply outweigh the benefits. Not to mention, the sheer impact of society on one's mentality. There does not need to be any sort of eternal punishment to keep someone in line...in fact, studies have shown a great amount of morality in those without religion. Conclusion: religion is not necessary to keep a person in line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarsier
People that need religion and eternal damnation to keep them from doing retarded shit are just as crazy as the people that smashed a few airplanes into the World trade centres. There are benefits to act ethically that have nothing to do with going to heaven.
That is a very well thought out and articulated rebuttal. I have significantly been affected by your profound words of substance andQuote:
Originally Posted by Tarsier
must set myself in recluse to properly consider the depths of your insight.
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Dawkins makes a very good point in this direction. Consider a moderate Christian reading the bible. There is all sorts of stupid shit in there about killing motherfuckers because they disrespect you and raping bitches and all sorts of gangster shit. Yet the moderate Christian ignores all of that and pays attention to the good stuff about being peaceful and loving. They even manage to go out of their way to interpret stuff in a way that reflects the humanity of all humans. If they are getting their ethics from the bible, then how do they decide what to cut out and what to leave in? It's probably based on their own sense of ethics that exists independently of the bible. So why even bring the bible into it in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario92
I don't understand the point in this thread.
First, Kingerman's version of 'morality' is in of itself a self selected set of rules, so the argument has no bearing of anyone who is not Christian and therefore it loses it's purpose.
As for the 'sins' that most sane people also find immoral, remember that most of those who are not atheists have grown up in an environment where they have been taught that there will be dire and infinite punishments for their wrongdoings, often through brutal mental imagery and the encouragement of symptoms of mental illnesses such as battered wife's syndrome and schizophrenia. Which do you think is most damaging and helpful to society?
There is a morality center in the brain.
Why is watching porn a bad thing?
Gambling is bad in excess - gambling in general is not.
Sex with non-spouse is not bad at all. This shouldn't even be in the study. Obviously atheists are going to do this more because we don't believe in the sanctity of marriage.
Getting drunk is bad in excess - being drunk in a safe environment is not.
Lying does not always hurt others.
There are a lot of factors to... well, factor in. Most of these 'morally questionable' behaviours aren't hurting anyone in most situations. You can't instantly write them off as bad.
How does porn pull you away from honesty, love, forgiveness or patience? I can be honest and say that I watch porn, I can love someone and still watch porn, I can forgive or be forgiven for watching porn, and patience... yeah, nothing to do with porn.
I can honestly gamble, as in not cheat or lie, I can still express love while gambling, I can forgive someone for cheating, I can be patient with someone who has never gambled and is still learning.
I understand that if you're drunk it's harder to be moral, but the experience as a whole can be fine in a safe environment.
Everyone lies. Everyone. I don't care who you are, what you believe, or what morals you have - you lie and have lied before. Something as simple as telling your child that Santa is bringing presents is a lie. But I'm not saying lying is bad. I'm sure it's obvious what kind of lies are harmful which ones are not.
I think we need to look at how people go about these situations. It's the way we respond to what's in front of us that defines our morality, not the situation itself.
This is just plain silly xD.
it's good to be inmoral >=3.
ok, quoting someone else...
lying ? ROLFMAO actually if the survey says 7% athiests are liars it's means they're honest about it :P, and 1% christians they're more afraid about lying so if they survey was true I'd raise that % to 20.