Thread: What evidence do you need?

So we're the Goliath for your David. If your position is so unassailable, you should relish the opportunity to prove your faith. Backing down from us just makes you lose credibility.

Originally Posted by Noogah

If you had been around here longer, you would see that I used to be much more diligent.

Join Date: Jun 2007

Been around a lot longer than you kiddo.

I don't back down. I post more than you.

Your profile:0.64 posts per day
My profile:2.44 posts per day

Fact is, there aren't a bunch of Creationists swarming around me like flies. Therefore, my presence goes relatively undetected.

Also, I have a life too buddy. I can't spend all of it on the internet.

I don't care if you joined the year this forum was established.

By here, I mean R/S, not DV

Apparently, you've been in R/S for a long time, but this is the first time I've noticed you.

Also, drop the kiddo tactic. For all you know, I could be twenty years older than you.

If I may interject, would anyone mind too terribly much if we got back on topic? There are some views I'd like very much to rip to shreds...

Your age is irrelevant. Your maturity on the other hand is self evident.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If I may interject, would anyone mind too terribly much if we got back on topic? There are some views I'd like very much to rip to shreds...

My apologies Mario. I feel an overwhelming urge to point out dishonesty and hypocrisy when I see it. Carry on good sir.

Oh, for the love of..., we're never getting back on-topic, are we?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

I'll bite at this one and bring up to very simple but fundamental points that I have with Neo-Darwinism.

• Show that Abiogenesis is fact. (although you're probably going to say this has nothing to do with evolution. However, prove that it's fact anyway.)

Abiogenesis IS irrelevant in regards to evolution. You can't evolve something that doesn't yet exist. Just like the Big Bang has nothing to do with evolution, neither does abiogenesis.

But let me put it to you another way. You as a whole person, are alive. Your living tissue appears to be alive. Now zoom all the way in and start from the bottom.

Subatomic particles that make up your atoms? Not alive.
Atoms that make up your molecules? Not alive.
Individual molecules? Not alive.
Groups of molecules organised by physical chemical processes? Not alive.
Different groups of chemically organised molecules (cell membranes, DNA, ribosomes, etc.) interacting with one another? First signs of life.

Life is an emergent property of the structure of matter. Just as your intelligence is an emergent property of the complex network of neurons in your brain, with a bit of culture thrown in to fine tune the programming. There is no 'breath' or 'spark' of life. Just order created by physical and chemical processes.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Maybe it needs more lines of independent evidence because it's not true.

.....what? By this logic I can go into a courtroom and argue that a murderer is innocent because of the huge amount of very well detailed and analyzed forensic and eyewitness evidence against him. I don't see how more evidence = less true. Please explain to me how this makes sense.

Now you're just talking about adaptation. No problem with that. Of course that happens.

I'm glad we have come to an agreement. If one states that "of course [adaption] happens," they are by extension recognizing that evolution happens. Because adaption is evolution. As organisms "adapt" to their environment, and continue to do so, they are simultaneously "evolving."

Originally Posted by wasup

.....what? By this logic I can go into a courtroom and argue that a murderer is innocent because of the huge amount of very well detailed and analyzed forensic and eyewitness evidence against him. I don't see how more evidence = less true. Please explain to me how this makes sense.

Well the bible's true, right?! And that doesn't have any evidence at all. If something's true, it doesn't need any evidence. The person that tried to explain themselves is always lying, right?

Originally Posted by wasup

I'm glad we have come to an agreement. If one states that "of course [adaption] happens," they are by extension recognizing that evolution happens. Because adaption is evolution. As organisms "adapt" to their environment, and continue to do so, they are simultaneously "evolving."

This is something to do with mutations not being able to add genetic information because the information is independent of the means by which it is stored except when it isn't but it is. Don't ask me. I'm not the one that decided evolution needed all this evidence.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Well the bible's true, right?! And that doesn't have any evidence at all. If something's true, it doesn't need any evidence. The person that tried to explain themselves is always lying, right?

I sense troll fishing but coming from you it is just too funny

Perhaps someone actually has a real contribution to the thread? Someone who doubts evolution and needs evidence?

~

O'nus, what I need is for you to back up Mr. Garrison's quick summary of evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8asQkegV_wk

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

O'nus, what I need is for you to back up Mr. Garrison's quick summary of evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8asQkegV_wk

Fossil records were referenced in my previous post.

South Park rules.

~

*yawn*

Originally Posted by wasup

*yawn*

You got Poe's Lawed.

Alright then, I will keep this thread as a marshaling point for those who refute evolutions factual existence.

~

Originally Posted by Noogah

I don't back down. I post more than you.

Your profile:0.64 posts per day
My profile:2.44 posts per day

Fact is, there aren't a bunch of Creationists swarming around me like flies. Therefore, my presence goes relatively undetected.

Also, I have a life too buddy. I can't spend all of it on the internet.

I don't care if you joined the year this forum was established.

By here, I mean R/S, not DV

Apparently, you've been in R/S for a long time, but this is the first time I've noticed you.

Also, drop the kiddo tactic. For all you know, I could be twenty years older than you.

Noogah,

I thought long and hard about calling you out, and have decided to do so.

Some people choose to create an "internet persona" that is different from their real lives. But you openly BS to cut and run from threads.

You are a child - and I respect your guts for entering into debates with people. However, when you BS people blatently then I have an issue with it. If you start a debate then finish it - or have the guts to admit your are worng or dont know.

You are a child - I suspect of high school age - and even then probably a only freshman. I would not even be surprised if you are still at middle school.

Your own posting history proves this - if you are going to pretend to be something you are not then you should at least be consistent.

Here is one of your threads from the LD section where you clearly state you share a bedroom with your 6 year old brother:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=84814

Yet you tell O'nus that you cant respond to him - after his inhuman patience trying to get you to understand a simple point - because you have bought a 73 inch 3D ready flat screen and have to install it:

I'm afraid I shall be even further delayed. Just got 73 inch Mitsubishi flatscreen TV delivered.

I'm afraid I'm having a real headache setting it up.

We've been doing house renovations this week, and I think I might need to get a proffesional out to check the cable. I think I'm gonna have a pretty bad weekend.

Hint - adults who can purchase 73" TVs and spend the weekend installing them and making home renovations are unlikely to be sleeping in the bottom bunk in a bedroom with a 6 year old brother.

Hint #2 - someone who can buy and install a 73" TV in their house has left their "scooter" days long behind them:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=85980

Hint #3 - an adult would struggle to use the amount of emoticons you used in the above thread in a year of posting.

Hint #4 - adults do not refer to themselves as "im captain jack sparrow".


Join any debates you wish - but dont BS about your age or use it as an excuse to run away.

There's too many missing links in the theory of Evolution (for humans). It's just what it is, a theory, nothing more.

Besides, evolution is linked to survival of the fittest right? If that's the case, and ppl think we evolved from monkeys. Why are there still monkeys living till this day? And I doubt they're gonna die out anytime soon.

Having said that, I do not believe in the Bible and whatever God is said to be scripted in such Bible.

EDIT: I know we're very similar to monkeys, hence why ppl think we evolved from them by the theory of Evolution. But I have my own theory as to why that's the case. But I won't say it cause I'd probably be deemed a nutcase and it'll start a huge ass debate lol.

It's just what it is, a theory

Germ theory of disease
Theory of gravity
Cell theory
Theory of evolution
Theory of relativity

These are theories and have massive amounts of evidence for them. Some theories are scientific facts (e.g. germ theory of disease, cell theory, evolutionary theory).

In science "theory" is the highest status something can get, and denotes the power to explain phenomenon. It is not what it means in laymens terms where something has no real backing "just a theory, not proven".

Please educate yourself before walking in to a serious thread. Thanks.

Why are there still monkeys living till this day?

*sigh* that is not what people are saying. Sharing a (now-extinct) common ancestor with other members of the ape family does not equate to "humans evolving from monkeys which are also still around for some reason".

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Germ theory of disease
Theory of gravity
Cell theory
Theory of evolution
Theory of relativity

These are theories and have massive amounts of evidence for them. Some theories are scientific facts (e.g. germ theory of disease, cell theory, evolutionary theory).

In science "theory" is the highest status something can get, and denotes the power to explain phenomenon. It is not what it means in laymens terms where something has no real backing "just a theory, not proven".

Please educate yourself before walking in to a serious thread. Thanks.



*sigh* that is not what people are saying. Sharing a (now-extinct) common ancestor with other members of the ape family does not equate to "humans evolving from monkeys which are also still around for some reason".

You can throw all these facts and what have you at ppl like me. But I still won't believe in the theory of Evolution. It does have many missing links. And it would go against my own lil theory lol. That might sound arrogant, but ahh... I like my crazy theory. xD;

There's too many missing links in the theory of Evolution (for humans)

Care to give examples?

It's just what it is, a theory, nothing more.

This statement has been corrected so many times now that it's not even funny anymore... when talking science, a theory is the highest achieveable status that can be achieved. Just like the theory of gravitation. The fact that it's a theory goes to show that it is so because there's a likely reason to believe it's true due to piles of evidence and observations that point in direction of the general idea.

Besides, evolution is linked to survival of the fittest right? If that's the case, and ppl think we evolved from monkeys. Why are there still monkeys living till this day? And I doubt they're gonna die out anytime soon.

This statement seems to imply that you know very little about how evolution works. That is not to be taken as an offence Besides that point "survival of the fittest" is commonly a missused term when it comes to evolution. It was originally a term used for natural selection, but in the modern idea, and darwins own, it have nothing to do with best physical shape, rather its about adapting to environments. A very rough explanation I'd say.

The fact that there's still monkeys today have nothing to do with us, we just share a common ancestor. It's not like there's only one direct route that goes from ape --> human and that's it, there's many types of apes, and we're just a branch of that.

Missing links do not disprove evolution either, as you have to realise that fossils can be lost due to various reasons when we're talking this huge amount of time and changes that happens to the earth.

@ SomeDreamer: From monkey/ape to cavemen to ancient civilizations and finally to us. It basically leap frogs from point A to point B to point C.

I'm not dissing Evolution believers, since there was a point in time I believed in it too. That was after I was brain washed into believing in the bible. Basically there's not enough evidence for me to believe in either.

Just to expand on what SD said, monkeys can best be thought of as a close cousin, rather than a grandfather or uncle. Long ago, there was a species that split into the simian and the human races. From there, both races have evolved separately and independently of each other.

As for the many "holes" in evolution, are you referring to the fossil record, or just the general trend of flaws? If it is the former, see one of the above posts. If it is the latter, I would greatly appreciate examples.

While I do not agree with your opinion, I do respect it.

SomeDreamer: From monkey/ape to cavemen to ancient civilizations and finally to us. It basically leap frogs from point A to point B to point C.

But you have to consider that there IS documented change for this process:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

It might not deliver the entire single step of the process, but alltogether it gives a good idea of how it all happened, and can't see how it would be unreasonable to stick with this idea as it is, as far as I know, the best way to explain how it all happened with observation.

I'm not dissing Evolution believers, since there was a point in time I believed in it too. That was after I was brain washed into believing in the bible. Basically there's not enough evidence for me to believe in either.

I hope you didn't think I was saying that ^^ It's okay to question and disagree of course, no problems there. I would just hope that you have a valid reason as to why you do not think enough evidence is present. All I'm doing here is provide some material that you atleast could consider I respect your own opinion on the subject.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Just to expand on what SD said, monkeys can best be thought of as a close cousin, rather than a grandfather or uncle. Long ago, there was a species that split into the simian and the human races. From there, both races have evolved separately and independently of each other.

As for the many "holes" in evolution, are you referring to the fossil record, or just the general trend of flaws? If it is the former, see one of the above posts. If it is the latter, I would greatly appreciate examples.

While I do not agree with your opinion, I do respect it.

The prob with me is I find there's too many things on this planet that doesn't make sense and doesn't have answers. If I believe in Evolution, even more things would be left screwing with my mind.

I know I don't make much sense now, and I'm not providing any solid proof whatsoever to go against this thread. But what I think makes a whole lot of sense to me (which like I said, I shall not share lol). The theory of Evolution is just a mere sub topic for everything that makes sense in my head.

Originally Posted by TamiDoll

The prob with me is I find there's too many things on this planet that doesn't make sense and doesn't have answers. If I believe in Evolution, even more things would be left screwing with my mind.

I know I don't make much sense now, and I'm not providing any solid proof whatsoever to go against this thread. But what I think makes a whole lot of sense to me (which like I said, I shall not share lol). The theory of Evolution is just a mere sub topic for everything that makes sense in my head.

Hey, whatever makes you happy. You're not hurting anyone, so I have no problem! Thank you for at least stating what you believe, why, and why you will not change your opinion...