Thread: Debate yourself!

I was thinking. This thread is FULL of people debating for Creation, or for Evolution.

So I thought we could try a little experiment.

Let's debate our own world views.

This could be a fun exercise to try and see things from each others perspectives.

How this will work:

If you are a Creationist, debate in Evolutions favor. If you are an Evolutionist, debate in Creationists favor.

You do not have to debate AGAINST what you believe, but you do have to debate in favor of the opposite belief.

RULES:

-No sarcasm-really, just do your best, and have fun at least.

-Don't pretend that you just CAN'T POSSIBLY debate for the other side anymore. keep working at it, and try to find at least a valid response each time. If you really can't think of any more arguments in favor of whatever you are debating for, just drop out. No need for drama.

I'll get the ball rolling. Everybody here should know that I am a Christian, and a Creationist, so I'm gonna break the ice by giving a small argument for Evolution.

Why do so many species look so similar? We have arms and legs, and so do many animals whether primates, or different animals all together. Anytime we try to develop space aliens in movies and stuff, they always share similar tendencies to creatures from below. Wings, eyes, nose, legs, arms, etc.

Some creatures are better at it than others, and others are more advanced. All are similar though, so this in itself seems to suggest that all animals/creatures are related through genetics. Hence, Evolution.

Let's go!

EDIT:

Please do not use this thread to make the opposite theory sound stupid. Be serious. No sarcasm, and just have fun for crying out loud! If you don't learn anything, at least you can have fun swapping places, and seeing what it's like being in the other world view's shoes.

God created evolution and the Bible is metaphorical. Except the part about Jesus.

Noogah, don't you know that all the water in our solar system is found on Earth?

Also, you can't prove abiogenesis. All the parts in a cell could not have come together by chance. That's like a tornado disassembling and re-assembling a Boeing 747.

Without transitional forms, evolution is false. You need that smooth transition or else evolution holds no ground. Also, even if evolution is truth, it just means that God created it to test our faith.

The universe exists. The universe had to have a beginning because of the law of conservation of matter. God is timeless and exists outside the laws of his own universe. Therefore, God created the universe.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Noogah, don't you know that all the water in our solar system is found on Earth?

That isn't true. Earth is the only planet we know of that has water in LIQUID form. The galaxy/solar system is full of ice, and hence the solar system is chalk full of water.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Also, you can't prove abiogenesis. All the parts in a cell could not have come together by chance. That's like a tornado disassembling and re-assembling a Boeing 747.

A boeing 747 is an airplane, not an animal/human, and is therefore not reproductable, and the analogy isn't even comaprable.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Without transitional forms, evolution is false.

Um...could you elaborate on this please?

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

You need that smooth transition or else evolution holds no ground.

Why smooth? Why could it not be rough? The transition is like polishing rocks. The rocks start out as rough, and are tumbled around, tossed, and turned. Over time, they eventually wear away into a smooth gem. The transition itself could be a rough one, but will eventually turn out a smooth creature.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

The universe had to have a beginning because of the law of conservation of matter.

Yes, everything had a beginning. Big bang? We don't claim to know the beginning of everything. But we can know how things formed.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

God is timeless and exists outside the laws of his own universe. Therefore, God created the universe.

[that was my argument! ] But you can't prove that. You can't prove taht there is anything beyond what youc an see, hear, smell, touch, and feel. To say taht "The universe exists, and must therefore have had external influence" is silly! Flawed logic. We know nature, and we have a logical explanation of how nature made everything.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Um...could you elaborate on this please?

Transitional forms show that an animal evolves, so it is important.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Why smooth? Why could it not be rough? The transition is like polishing rocks. The rocks start out as rough, and are tumbled around, tossed, and turned. Over time, they eventually wear away into a smooth gem. The transition itself could be a rough one, but will eventually turn out a smooth creature.

It does need a smooth transition. You won't see a fish transform into an amphibian, or some land mammal into a whale instantly. That's why you have "smooth" transitions where species show transitional features.


Why don't you counter my argument...

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Because god made them like that.

Originally Posted by Noogah

A boeing 747 is an airplane, not an animal/human, and is therefore not reproductable, and the analogy isn't even comaprable.

You're missing the point. The point is that life is a complex system that can't arise naturally without some other influence. Don't make cop-out statements. Tell us how life can arise naturally. Until then, the analogy remains valid.

Originally Posted by Noogah

"The universe exists, and must therefore have had external influence" is silly! Flawed logic. We know nature, and we have a logical explanation of how nature made everything.

Oh, you do, do you? I'd like to hear that explanation.

Just wanted to say that I really like this idea.

When my brain is actually working, I'll probably be back to participate.

...maybe.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Why do so many species look so similar? We have arms and legs, and so do many animals whether primates, or different animals all together. Anytime we try to develop space aliens in movies and stuff, they always share similar tendencies to creatures from below. Wings, eyes, nose, legs, arms, etc.

Some creatures are better at it than others, and others are more advanced. All are similar though, so this in itself seems to suggest that all animals/creatures are related through genetics. Hence, Evolution.

Let's go!

Yeah, right, I suppose that eyeballs just developed themselves? I suppose a bunch of dogs and cats and humans just appeared at random by accident from some mud? How can you explain why the universe is perfectly fine tuned to life? Evolution has so many holes it is not funny. It can't even explain how life started in the first place!

-_-

Good enough!?

Actually... that video Mark75 posted totally explains everything!

Originally Posted by ????

Yes, if you're stupid and ignorant enough to simplify it to that

Hm, personal attacks. The sure sign of a failed argument. I should just ignore everything else you've said, but...

Originally Posted by ????

Besides, you do realise evolution have nothing to do with the theory of abiogenesis, right? That is, the theory of evolution and the theory of the origin of life are two seperate things which you seem to ignore. One of the first signs of ignorance, not even knowing the basics...

Whoops, there are those insults again. Honestly, I've heard better arguments on the playground. If you're just here to call me a stupid-head and throw mud cakes maybe you need a time out. Anyway, if science can't even prove that life started then I'd say it has a LOT of work to do. I mean, any idiot can look around and logically know that life started. Why? Because it's here! But you can't prove that it started with science... Hm... what's the word to describe that kind of belief...

Oh!



FAITH!

Originally Posted by ????

well... through some seperate "components" and a long long time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

Yeah, so what? I suppose the eye just knew that it was going to develop like that? Look, I know about genetics. Genetic information passes between generations, etc. But how did the genetic information get there in the first place? Have you ever seen a pile of metal turn into an airplane by itself? No, airplanes need to be designed because they are complicated and precise. Just like life and the universe.

Originally Posted by ????

Well with such a claim surely you must have somewhere to start.

Aptly, Genesis.

-nvm-

Evolution states that an organism adapts to its surroundings. While the truth is that god created everything for us, because he loves us. Everything was designed to accommodate us.

I think this thread is an awesome idea. It's worth a try. I thought a bunch of times about doing it in Extended Discussion in regard to the Iraq war, but I thought it might just end up being a sarcasm contest. Let's try to make this work.

Here I go...

The existence of human life is so phenomenal that it had to be planned by a mind that values the creation of other minds. Experience exists, and some experiences involve emotions that are so deep that something had to plan them out. Of all of the possibilities for how the universe could have happened without an intelligent design, the existence of human consciousness and the meaningfulness it experiences barely make up even a blip on the radar. Yet, here the picture is in reality. Meaning exists in the human mind, and its reality without meaning existing in an eternal mind would be so improbable it is virtually impossible. Meaning has to be the result of something eternal that believes in meaning. Positive emotion is too much of a beautiful thing for those who experience it for it to be what merely happened to evolve. The ingredients of it exist for some reason even though a Godless universe would not at all depend on them. This universe was created by an intelligent mind, and that intelligent mind is whom I call God.

Evolution is a very brilliantly thought out theory, but it is not actual reality. Even though genetic mutations happen and some are advantageous, they could not stay in the gene pool long enough to reach the higher levels in which entire organs come into existence. Although scientists fill in what they believe are the key parts of the story of evolution, they do not cover every detail. Also, the evolution of a new species has never been observed. Too much speculation is involved. It is still a hypothesis.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Why do so many species look so similar? We have arms and legs, and so do many animals whether primates, or different animals all together. Anytime we try to develop space aliens in movies and stuff, they always share similar tendencies to creatures from below. Wings, eyes, nose, legs, arms, etc.

Some creatures are better at it than others, and others are more advanced. All are similar though, so this in itself seems to suggest that all animals/creatures are related through genetics. Hence, Evolution.

Because god made them like that.

This thread reminds me: A few years ago I posted somewhere on DV that god must exist because how can something that sooooo many people believe in not be true.

It still boggles my mind that I was that dumb. The flaws in that kind of logic are apparent and gargantuan.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

This thread reminds me: A few years ago I posted somewhere on DV that god must exist because how can something that sooooo many people believe in not be true.

It still boggles my mind that I was that dumb. The flaws in that kind of logic are apparent and gargantuan.

I can't believe how dumb i used to be either. Looking at my posts way back when i first started i was Seriously delusional and so so so so close minded.

The problem with this thread is that there are lots of intelligent atheists presenting half decent arguments for Creationism and one dim creationist not even beginning to do evolution a justice.
In different circumstances, maybe with a different topic choice, its a terrific idea, however, its fustrating to see Noogah presenting half hearted arguments for a theory he doesn't even begin to understand.

YOO-HOO!

Yo, p-dude.

The arguments I'm giving aren't bad, nor are they half hearted. Don't like the thred? Buh-bye!

EDIT:

You know, he's right. It's not fair to the Evolutionists that there aren't enough real Creationists here to act on Evolutionists side.

This forum just doesn't have enough Creationists. Whereas, this would have been a good idea if there were as many Crationists here as there are Evolutionists, I think I'm gonna ask O'nus to lock this thread.