Thread: Another ? for athiests/non believers of any religion

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

I would do everything I could to save them from the time-wasting delusion that is Christianity. I would sit them down and have a heart-to-heart with them and give them some books on evolution etc. To be honest though this would never happen. No child of mine would be stupid enough to fall for it especially since they would have been taught why it is all BS right from birth and why some people believe it, so would be able to see both arguments clearly instead of just one biased view in favour of magic.

You should not assume that taking to religion means the same as refusing to believe scientific explanations. Though if i had children and they started refusing science, then I'd do my best to convince them they were wrong.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Would I let my children go to another "church". No.
(...)
Their religious education is my responsibility, but when they grow up, they can be whatever they want and I'd accept it

Those two answers are sort of conflicting.

How so?

While they are in my home, under my guidance, I have a religious obligation set upon me by the Bible itself to teach my children what I accept to be religious truths.
They don't have to like it, but they do have to accept and respect it.
But we still have sometimes deep and sometimes more relaxed about other beliefs.
My life is an open book for anyone to read. I tell my kids about my past experiences with all walks of beliefs and how I came to be where I am now and where I hope to be in the future. But I realize that's not the same as experiencing it for themselves.

So, being free moral agents in this society, my kids can choose whatever they please once they leave my home and I am no longer responsible for their education.
And because I have, at one time or another, been practically anything a person can reasonably imagine, I have extremely few problems with acceptance of a persons choice. (I have my own personal quarks and hangups, but all people do)

As the parent of adult children, I wont have to like what they choose, but I will have to accept it and respect it.

Yeah, all right. It's just that you didn't specify when you'd not accept them going to their own church and when you would. Though surely children are able to make such a decision for themselves before they live the house? Beyond, say 16 or such, you would really have had the time to teach them most of what they need to know about the religion. Wouldn't forcing them to go to church or such only make them dislike the religion after that?

I still remember the day I asked my mother the magic question.

"Mum - do we believe in God?"

She responded by saying that while other people believe in many different gods, we as a family don't believe collectively like sheep. Everyone has to make up their own minds. She then explained that she and my father chose to raise my brother and I without any bias so that when we're older we could figure it out for ourselves and make our own decisions.

And that is effectively what I'll do for my kids one day. To this day Im an atheist, but I have over my last 24 years tried or researched extensively Christianity and Buddhism. My parents were worried for the 2 months that I was going to an Assembly of God church that I would be 'brain washed', but they were supportive that I was trying to figure it out for myself. Eventually I found my own way to rock solid atheism and it's never been an issue since.

Would I stop my kids from going to church? Yes and no. I'd stop them from going before the age of 15/16, and I'd teach them how to think critically and logically. I'd also arm them with refutations to the numerous assaults on their lack of faith that they would have to deal with from the vocally pious as they find their own way. If they eventually settled on a religion I'd be disappointed in myself as a teacher and a parent, but I wouldnt reject them.

It depends entirely on age really. I'm of the opinion that kids below the age of 15 are very naive, and will pretty much buy into anything their parents, or any other person of authority, tells them. In my mind, the logical way of raising children, is to simply tell the Bible as a fairytale, which is probably a great idea, since it's got some great stories with some good morals, to an extent.
They (children) will probably confront me at some point or another, because somebody in school mentions religion. I'm not quite sure how I would answer it. I would probably just tell them how it is.

It's a fairytale, and for some odd reason, people believe it is true.

From what i have read earlier, some of you say that religion is brainwashing... well if you tell your child about your beliefs, no matter how old he or she is and you do not let them go to church, wouldn't you be brain washing as well?

well if you tell your child about your beliefs, no matter how old he or she is and you do not let them go to church, wouldn't you be brain washing as well?

I don't think so, if you tell them up until a certain age to make up their own mind. There's no belief to indoctrinate, you're simply giving them time to look at alternatives.

It's like not letting your child drink at a young age. You're not brainwashing them in to not drinking, you're just saying they're not mature enough to handle alcohol yet.

So, being free moral agents in this society, my kids can choose whatever they please once they leave my home

This completely ignores the fact that your children are likely to be indoctrinated. There is a massive correlation between a parent's and their child's religion. But no, it's your religious obligation, so it's okay!

Forcing your children to listen to your "religious belief of the day" is bad parenting. Especially given how fickle your beliefs are, and the arbitrary denomination of Christianity you decided was right.

Would you allow your child to have a blood transfusion by the way, if they needed it?

They don't have to like it, but they do have to accept and respect it.

Respect is earned, not given. Religion does not deserve automatic respect, just like any other belief does not deserve automatic respect.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

How so?

While they are in my home, under my guidance, I have a religious obligation set upon me by the Bible itself to teach my children what I accept to be religious truths.
They don't have to like it, but they do have to accept and respect it.
But we still have sometimes deep and sometimes more relaxed about other beliefs.
My life is an open book for anyone to read. I tell my kids about my past experiences with all walks of beliefs and how I came to be where I am now and where I hope to be in the future. But I realize that's not the same as experiencing it for themselves.

So, being free moral agents in this society, my kids can choose whatever they please once they leave my home and I am no longer responsible for their education.
And because I have, at one time or another, been practically anything a person can reasonably imagine, I have extremely few problems with acceptance of a persons choice. (I have my own personal quarks and hangups, but all people do)

As the parent of adult children, I wont have to like what they choose, but I will have to accept it and respect it.

By the time they leave your home and "choose whatever they please", you will already have completely indocrinated them into your way of thinking.

So Photo, you are saying it ISN'T alright for Zhaylin to teach her children about God and her beliefs BUT IT IS ALRIGHT for you to teach your children about you beliefs.... What is the difference. There isn't any.

You are not allowing your children to learn anything about God while she is teaching her children about God. There is no difference. If one is brain washing so is the other.

So Photo, you are saying it ISN'T alright for Zhaylin to teach her children about God and her beliefs BUT IT IS ALRIGHT for you to teach your children about you beliefs.... What is the difference. There isn't any.

But I never said I'd force my beliefs down their throats. I'd tell then what I thought if they asked me, but I would also tell them they need to make up their own minds.

If I were to insist from their birth that Agnostic Atheism is the only rational stance, and forced them to listen to it, then it would be as bad. Indoctrination is still indoctrination.

Zhaylin conversely feels obliged to force her beliefs on her children when they are most impressionable, and demands unconditional respect for her beliefs from her children. There's a world of difference between the two.

Certainly I wouldn't demand respect for my beliefs unconditionally. I'd welcome being challenged on them, and to have to earn that respect for my beliefs.

EDIT: I'm also not saying it's wrong to teach her children about her beliefs if they ask about it. But forcing it on them is completely unacceptable for me.

I look at religious education the same way as secular education: You build a basic foundation but the kid adds onto it through their own life experiences and knowledge and whims.
If I waited for my kids to "ask me about" say geography or math, they'd know absolutely nothing about those subjects.
My kids, typically, don't care to learn about anything. They don't hunger for knowledge or spirituality.
But I still have to send them to school. Is that wrong?

As for blood transfusions, they know my stance. I would refuse one for myself because I *understand* the reason for doing so. I would ask them, and as I stated before, most of my 4 probably would have one. They are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses, just the children of one. Until they make the religion their own, they're not bound by certain rules.
But it is still my responsibility to lay that foundation.
To say my children are indoctrinated is completely absurd, and you'd understand why I say that if you knew my bull-headed children What can I say, they take after their mom. And I've accepted that they'll float around in the worlds religions and only 2 are likely to embrace my beliefs as their own.
A parents influence is off-set greatly by what the children pick up from school, the media, their friends and other relatives.

And why was only a portion of my words highlighted. I made a point to repeat myself at the end of the last post:
"While they are in my home, under my guidance, I have a religious obligation set upon me by the Bible itself to teach my children what I accept to be religious truths.
They don't have to like it, but they do have to accept and respect it.
...
As the parent of adult children, I wont have to like what they choose, but I will have to accept it and respect it."