Thread: All aboard the Atheist bus

Originally Posted by Sandform

I don't have any reason to believe it might have been.

What do you think psychic people are reading when they read the future? What is the connection?

It might have been in the same way that anything might have been.

It probably involves a property of the universe we have not identified because it barely touches our senses. Vision evolved in organisms by first starting out as an ability to notice differences in lighting. I think that is about where we are in the evolution of psychic ability.

I think the future is already determined by the laws of physics. It already "is" what it "is", and I think it can on very rare occasions be perceived to some extent. Psychic perception is especially strong in terms of details that are relevant to the perceiver, but still very faint in comparison to our other senses.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It probably involves a property of the universe we have not identified because it barely touches our senses. Vision evolved in organisms by first starting out as an ability to notice differences in lighting. I think that is about where we are in the evolution of psychic ability.

I think the future is already determined by the laws of physics. It already "is" what it "is", and I think it can on very rare occasions be perceived to some extent. Psychic perception is especially strong in terms of details that are relevant to the perceiver, but still very faint in comparison to our other senses.

Yeah I agree, but I think the future is based on probabilities and not completely predetermined, but I could be wrong.

Life is just too strange.. It's as simple as that.. We are only trying to make sense of the complexity.

We are infants, as a race...

I prefer to think of it as a train, thank you very much.

Woot wooo

Seeing it for yourself is in fact the worst kind of evidence you can have. Because you can't believe everything you see. For instance if you take mushrooms you might actually believe that the walls were breathing but obviously they weren't.
BTW I made the theory up myself when I was about 12 or so that Christianity etc. and the Bible were basically just stories of hallucinogenic trips. Is this proof of global conscience that me and that John Allegro tapped into? no.

Also with your premonition. If you had read in the newspaper 2 days later that someone died in a car crash you would have also believed this was your vision. Or if your friend died 2 years later you would have remembered your vision and said that was it.
The thing is we are programmed to find patterns and connections between things.
Car crashes are pretty common. I bet you've had a couple of dreams about car crashes and just forgotten because you didn't hear about anyone having a crash in real life afterward.
Also the hill being the same is bad evidence. You can change your memory to fit your belief. Or not even belief. For instance if I have a dream and see someones face, then I wake up and see my mother's face I might put her face in place of the dream persons one without even knowing and then just assume she was in the dream.
Memories fail all the time basically.
And I bet I can find 10 hills in my area that look pretty similar. So even if the hill wasn't exactly the same when you saw the real hill you changed your memory to fit the real hill.
I mean can you recall what that hill looks like right now? Every detail? The lines on the road or no lines? How many trees? What type of trees? Obviously you can't. So this is why we have scientific methods because relying only on what you see is very bad indeed.

Originally Posted by tommo

Seeing it for yourself is in fact the worst kind of evidence you can have. Because you can't believe everything you see. For instance if you take mushrooms you might actually believe that the walls were breathing but obviously they weren't.
BTW I made the theory up myself when I was about 12 or so that Christianity etc. and the Bible were basically just stories of hallucinogenic trips. Is this proof of global conscience that me and that John Allegro tapped into? no.

[/b]Also with your premonition. If you had read in the newspaper 2 days later that someone died in a car crash you would have also believed this was your vision.[/b] Or if your friend died 2 years later you would have remembered your vision and said that was it.
The thing is we are programmed to find patterns and connections between things.
Car crashes are pretty common. I bet you've had a couple of dreams about car crashes and just forgotten because you didn't hear about anyone having a crash in real life afterward.
Also the hill being the same is bad evidence. You can change your memory to fit your belief. Or not even belief. For instance if I have a dream and see someones face, then I wake up and see my mother's face I might put her face in place of the dream persons one without even knowing and then just assume she was in the dream.
Memories fail all the time basically.
And I bet I can find 10 hills in my area that look pretty similar. So even if the hill wasn't exactly the same when you saw the real hill you changed your memory to fit the real hill.
I mean can you recall what that hill looks like right now? Every detail? The lines on the road or no lines? How many trees? What type of trees? Obviously you can't. So this is why we have scientific methods because relying only on what you see is very bad indeed.

Seeing it for yourself is in fact the worst kind of evidence you can have. Because you can't believe everything you see.

Its bad evidence? Seeing things is one step in the scientific method. If I could time-machine myself and strap myself to a machine to prove to you all the things I saw... rofl, Thats why science hasn't proven psychics, because as far as I'm aware I have no conscious control over when I get visions. And you can't have the same vision over and over again to satisfy your needs.


I didn't change my memory, I had posted it online, my trip report many years ago.

Car crashes are common, but people I know personally in them are not as common. Everything was the same as the night she died as it was in my vision.

I understand scientific methods, but when it comes to psychic visions they come and go and aren't repeatable over and over again... Everything isn't so simple to understand.

Also with your premonition. If you had read in the newspaper 2 days later that someone died in a car crash you would have also believed this was your vision.

No I wouldn't have, some random name in the newspaper wouldn't affect me, so why would I think I was having a vision about someone I have no connection with...

It was rainy in my vision, it was rainy that day.
It was a giant curvey hill, that matches the same one in my dream.
I knew someone who was on the scene right after the accident, and his descriptions match what I saw...

The car was crashed into a tree at the end of the hill, in my vision and in reality..

Regardless of what you think, I did see the future.


P.S. Only an idiot actually thinks the wall is breathing while tripping, their is a difference between being stuck in your hallucinations and understanding them.

P.S.S. I've had plenty of DREAMS about car accidents, all involving me and someone I know, and they are always ridiculous. I can tell the difference between my mind processing things and the future.

The vision had nothing to do with me, I was never their at any point. I was fully conscious, I posted it online and had it looked at by close friends of mine.. Mind recognizes patterns, but that doesn't explain a giant "coincidence" as you would have it written off as. They were exactly the same, and have control over my mind, I won't be led astray so easily.

It's as simple as this: you have a dream with several ambiguous parts. You get to know there was a similar accident. You subconsciously bend the ambiguous points in your dream to make them fit the accident.

Seriously. With the number of car accidents there are each day, the number of car-accident dreams you admitted to having, and the ambiguity of dreams, don't you think that, sooner or later, you'd get such a coincidence? Seriously. Predicting the future once goes against the very definition of predicting the future. In fact, it's even more pathetic if you think that you weren't sure if the vision you had was a prediction before the accident happened.

Finally (and less importantly): yes, a name in the newspaper could have influenced you. You just have no gasp of how many subconscious processes are simultaneously occurring in your brain. A name in a newspaper does influence you, and this has been observed scientifically. Just ask anyone with a diploma in psychology.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

It's as simple as this: you have a dream with several ambiguous parts. You get to know there was a similar accident. You subconsciously bend the ambiguous points in your dream to make them fit the accident.

Seriously. With the number of car accidents there are each day, the number of car-accident dreams you admitted to having, and the ambiguity of dreams, don't you think that, sooner or later, you'd get such a coincidence? Seriously. Predicting the future once goes against the very definition of predicting the future. In fact, it's even more pathetic if you think that you weren't sure if the vision you had was a prediction before the accident happened.

Finally (and less importantly): yes, a name in the newspaper could have influenced you. You just have no gasp of how many subconscious processes are simultaneously occurring in your brain. A name in a newspaper does influence you, and this has been observed scientifically. Just ask anyone with a diploma in psychology.

I have high dream recall, all my dreams about car accidents have been about personal relationships of mine going out of control.

I wasn't dreaming when this vision happened. I WAS AWAKE.

I haven't only predicted the future once, that being the most vivid and significant occasion.

I understand coincidence and things being past that into the realm of WTF?

I was only sure that during that whole vision I was bugging out, and wanting nothing but it to stop. I felt a severe emotional response, and a question begging in my head why did I just see that. Two days I went on and on about it with all my friends, telling them what I saw, I thought it was a vision from the future but was unsure at that point. Car accident happens in the exact ways I've been describing the event for days, I didn't change the event to match what happened. If you could ask my friends who knew they could attest.

You don't even understand what he was saying about a name in the newspaper. You then spit out a mini-paragraph stating a point and not backing it up. I understand the role of the subconscious, unconscious etc.. having taken many classes in Psychology albeit I'm no major.

He was saying I would connect any similar accident in the paper after the vision to be accurate.. I'm saying the chances of that are unlikely, why would I be having a vision about someone I don't know. My logical mind has precedence over everything.

And its grasp not gasp, and I probably have a greater grasp than yourself.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I have high dream recall, all my dreams about car accidents have been about personal relationships of mine going out of control.

I wasn't dreaming when this vision happened. I WAS AWAKE.

I haven't only predicted the future once, that being the most vivid and significant occasion.

I understand coincidence and things being past that into the realm of WTF?

I was only sure that during that whole vision I was bugging out, and wanting nothing but it to stop. I felt a severe emotional response, and a question begging in my head why did I just see that. Two days I went on and on about it with all my friends, telling them what I saw, I thought it was a vision from the future but was unsure at that point. Car accident happens in the exact ways I've been describing the event for days, I didn't change the event to match what happened. If you could ask my friends who knew they could attest.

You don't even understand what he was saying about a name in the newspaper. You then spit out a mini-paragraph stating a point and not backing it up. I understand the role of the subconscious, unconscious etc.. having taken many classes in Psychology albeit I'm no major.

He was saying I would connect any similar accident in the paper after the vision to be accurate.. I'm saying the chances of that are unlikely, why would I be having a vision about someone I don't know. My logical mind has precedence over everything.

And its grasp not gasp, and I probably have a greater grasp than yourself.

Unfortunatly your anecdotal story dosn't hold up against the volumes of scientific evidence to the contrary.
If it convinced you enough that such things are real, then why not dedicate your life to gathering evidence to prove this to the world?
If its genuine, even if it is elusive, it WILL be possible one way or another.
If you are sure, then why not?
If it happened to me and I was convinced it was NOTHING else, then I would dedicate my life to it.
It would revolutionise the world we live in, make you very wealthy and famous, and improve the whole world.


Oh and this is an interesting video to watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OTsYfTt-c

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I have high dream recall, all my dreams about car accidents have been about personal relationships of mine going out of control.

I wasn't dreaming when this vision happened. I WAS AWAKE.

I haven't only predicted the future once, that being the most vivid and significant occasion.

I understand coincidence and things being past that into the realm of WTF?

I was only sure that during that whole vision I was bugging out, and wanting nothing but it to stop. I felt a severe emotional response, and a question begging in my head why did I just see that. Two days I went on and on about it with all my friends, telling them what I saw, I thought it was a vision from the future but was unsure at that point. Car accident happens in the exact ways I've been describing the event for days, I didn't change the event to match what happened. If you could ask my friends who knew they could attest.

You don't even understand what he was saying about a name in the newspaper. You then spit out a mini-paragraph stating a point and not backing it up. I understand the role of the subconscious, unconscious etc.. having taken many classes in Psychology albeit I'm no major.

He was saying I would connect any similar accident in the paper after the vision to be accurate.. I'm saying the chances of that are unlikely, why would I be having a vision about someone I don't know. My logical mind has precedence over everything.

And its grasp not gasp, and I probably have a greater grasp than yourself.

Bla bla bla. It doesn't change the fact that you "predicted" the future only once. If you really can predict the future, you must do it several times, otherwise it's just not different at all from a lucky guess. It doesn't matter what story you have to tell, or how you were supposedly feeling, especially because human emotion is so easy to turn into rationalization. If you are gonna say you can predict the future, make it at least remotely scientific.

I'm not saying you changed the event (at least not consciously, false memories are known to exist). I'm saying dreams/trips/whatever-shit-you-had are ambiguous, and it so incredibly easy to interpret anything you want from them. I don't doubt that there are a thousand other car accidents that would suit your dream just as well, or even better. You are completely ignorant about the number of car accidents each day, aren't you?

Furthermore, I don't doubt that you supposedly tried to predict the future so many other times, but on those times, the prediction didn't stand. As I said and now repeat, predicting the future once is, by definition, not predicting the future.

The "having a vision about someone I don't know" thing is equally stupid. It was just an identity-less person you "predicted" - anyone would fit. And you're wrong in thinking the conscious part of the brain has precedence over what you do - your saying so only shows how stupid you are when it comes to psychology.

Finally, please forgive my freaking typo. Also, remember English is not my first language, not even my second one, it's the third language I know, and I would lay a lot of money on me having better fluency than you at it. Don't be so low as to judge people over their language - which is, to say, a typically american thing to do.

/rant

I assure you if you watch it all the way it is relevant.

Although I don't know if the money and the pledge bit make sense, did these run in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Unfortunatly your anecdotal story dosn't hold up against the volumes of scientific evidence to the contrary.
If it convinced you enough that such things are real, then why not dedicate your life to gathering evidence to prove this to the world?
If its genuine, even if it is elusive, it WILL be possible one way or another.
If you are sure, then why not?
If it happened to me and I was convinced it was NOTHING else, then I would dedicate my life to it.
It would revolutionise the world we live in, make you very wealthy and famous, and improve the whole world.


Oh and this is an interesting video to watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OTsYfTt-c

Volumes of scientific evidence proving psychic powers aren't real?? Tests by James Randi is not volumes, nor legitimate testing in my world.

I dedicate my life to peace, and many business ventures I have in plan. I'm not a scientist, nor do I want to be, nor do I want to be a guinea pig.

I'm not the only one of my kind, the world isn't ready for Psychics to be officially recognized..

P.S. I don't feel like making a profit off my power, I plan on making a profit of my ideas instead.

P.S.S. Science hasn't proven Psychic powers to be beyond our realm, it just hasn't proved it. That is the thing, someday you will see.

You don't have to believe me, but without a doubt that is what happened.

Bla bla bla. It doesn't change the fact that you "predicted" the future only once. If you really can predict the future, you must do it several times, otherwise it's just not different at all from a lucky guess. It doesn't matter what story you have to tell, or how you were supposedly feeling, especially because human emotion is so easy to turn into rationalization. If you are gonna say you can predict the future, make it at least remotely scientific.

If you are just going be an innane shitbat than don't bother posting. Bla bla bla, is obnoxious and adding nothing to this conversation.

You are not the official decider of if I only saw the future once and when its true, I'm sure you family makes you feel like your important and intelligent but that doesn't make it true.

I have predicted the future multiple times as I said, so ignoring my words and repeating yourself just makes you look like an ignoramus who replies before reading the previous posts.

Make it remotely scientific, from a personal experience? What don't you understand, I can't twist the way it happened to fit your close-minded if Science doesn't prove it to me than it's not real. Science is wonderful, but apart from making shit up to feed your need, it wasn't used in my personal empirical situation.

A lucky guess, that just happened to be exactly the same as the accident that happened two days after the vision that I had when completely conscious. I understand chance and coincidence, but things like this are not simply that.
It's funny listening to a someone online, tell me what and how my brain works when you've never met me nor know a damn thing about me.

I'm not saying you changed the event (at least not consciously, false memories are known to exist). I'm saying dreams/trips/whatever-shit-you-had are ambiguous, and it so incredibly easy to interpret anything you want from them. I don't doubt that there are a thousand other car accidents that would suit your dream just as well, or even better. You are completely ignorant about the number of car accidents each day, aren't you?

Nothing like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm ignorant of the number of car accidents each day, maybe you are ignorant to the fact that every day of my life someone with a detrimental impact in my life is not in one. I could have seen a vision of a random accident of someone I don't know, but why? And I didn't so it's really a moot point, that you are trying to grasp onto to explain away the same exact car accident in my vision and reality.

I understand false memories, and many other far more complicated psychological concepts. But I posted/typed a report of my trip BEFORE the accident, and it matched up. So nothing what changed.

It's not completely easy to interpret anything I want from it, I interpret the truth of the matter. Regardless of your uninformed view of this situation it did happen.

I haven't had thousands of car accident dreams to suit this accident that affected someone close to me, I've had ridiculous car accident dreams on giant snow hills or spinning around 50 times in a row.. Nothing close to representing reality as the vision I had did.

It's funny to listen to you call me ignorant... The description fits you so much better.

Furthermore, I don't doubt that you supposedly tried to predict the future so many other times, but on those times, the prediction didn't stand. As I said and now repeat, predicting the future once is, by definition, not predicting the future.

I didn't suppose, I did predict the future many other times As I said, this was the most impactful vision I've ever had, not the only real one. You take my words and fit them to whatever context you want, that is not a debate that is a waste of my time.

The prediction stood, you wouldn't know you just assume because you already have it in your head that it's impossible, thus I am wasting my time.. because your pre-conceived notions are all that matters to you.

Why should I bother replying to you, when you ignore what I say and assume anything you want?

The "having a vision about someone I don't know" thing is equally stupid. It was just an identity-less person you "predicted" - anyone would fit. And you're wrong in thinking the conscious part of the brain has precedence over what you do - your saying so only shows how stupid you are when it comes to psychology.

Listen child, I don't need someone on the INTERNAT who probably has never taken a real psychology course in his life telling me I'm stupid when it comes to psychology. The conscious part of the brain does have precedence over what you do, its the part that does the conscious actions. Maybe you should take a Psych course to learn the importance of your conscious brain when in co-relation with your unconscious/subconscious. Someday maybe you'll be able to have as much control over the workings of your brain as I. Ignoramus your telling me theconscious part of my brain doesn't have precedence, then how am I typing to you right now. My unconscious could take control and start me running into walls or something, ROFL.

It's not equally stupid, at least not if you are talking about your intelligence. Yours is far less.

Anyone wouldn't have fit, because random people I've never met have no impact on my life. What don't you understand, their would be no accident that I would seriously understand as much unless it was someone I knew.. You just want to assume I could fit any accident into my vision, but it's not it would only match that one accident.. It's not every day someone dies on that same hill in my vision in the exact ways it happened in reality and in my vision. I don't really care on your opinion on my mental makeup when I read your posts and see your obvious childlike qualities and inane comments that don't really argue any point you just put things out their as fact as if you are an expert in all subjects in life such as science, psychology and the existence of psychic powers.. Let me bow to the almighty pre-pubescent teen.

Finally, please forgive my freaking typo. Also, remember English is not my first language, not even my second one, it's the third language I know, and I would lay a lot of money on me having better fluency than you at it. Don't be so low as to judge people over their language - which is, to say, a typically american thing to do.

Every post you claim superiority and then you read into your words and see your obvious unintelligent comments and assumptions. We are on the internet, I only have your language skills to go on. And you have better fluency in a language that I had a college grade reading level when I was in 4th grade?... I highly doubt it.

I will continue to judge you over your use of language because that is your only way to show your intelligence in a word based forum, what do you expect?

P.S. I was only "fucking" with you, maybe you have emotional problems to be taking what I say online so seriously.(Lets see if he enjoys me questioning his mental balance)


I have only had one vision of a car accident that made me think it was real, and I was right.

P.S.S Don't reply to me unless you can drop the dumb comments, because really your just pissing me off with your last childish post and making me angry.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

words... endless words...

Oh god, you know what?
You've actually convinced me YOU can see the future and there is a God.

You really won me over at the point where you started insulting people who argued with you. Calling them things like "child" and "innane shitbat "... that was a really high point in your rant. Oh also, i suggest you argue with Kromoh in his native language! Let's see how well you do at arguing in a language that isn't the one you were bought up speaking!

Sorry, but whilst i'm aware that the lack of social skills of a person putting an argument across is no yardstick to the actual validity of the argument. In this case, both your rude, arrogant manner, and your inability to remain calm in a debate, make me realise that you're really not worth the energy conversing with.

From this point on I myself won't be responding to or reading your posts.
I like to debate with those with more manners, charm and good nature.

But one last point i have to make based on this quote of yours...

P.S.S. Science hasn't proven Psychic powers to be beyond our realm, it just hasn't proved it. That is the thing, someday you will see.

i'm just going to reword your comment here , and it will maybe put things into perspective for others :

Science hasn't proven evil goblin clowns from the flying teapot dimension to be beyond our realm, it just hasn't proved them. That is the thing, someday you will see.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Oh god, you know what?
You've actually convinced me YOU can see the future and there is a God.

You really won me over at the point where you started insulting people who argued with you. Calling them things like "child" and "innane shitbat "... that was a really high point in your rant. Oh also, i suggest you argue with Kromoh in his native language! Let's see how well you do at arguing in a language that isn't the one you were bought up speaking!

Sorry, but whilst i'm aware that the lack of social skills of a person putting an argument across is no yardstick to the actual validity of the argument. In this case, both your rude, arrogant manner, and your inability to remain calm in a debate, make me realise that you're really not worth the energy conversing with.

From this point on I myself won't be responding to or reading your posts.
I like to debate with those with more manners, charm and good nature.

But one last point i have to make based on this quote of yours...



i'm just going to reword your comment here , and it will maybe put things into perspective for others :

None of those comments were aimed at you, they were all for Kromoh.

And it was in response to his attitude.

Lets source that attitude for you.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Bla bla bla.

Originally Posted by kromoh

You are completely ignorant about the number of car accidents each day, aren't you?

Yes I'm ignorant to the fact that thousands die every year from car accidents. I'm obviously raised in a farm in the center of the pacific and never met another human being, whats a car? Maybe he should listen to what I say before he replies instead of jumping on my intelligence.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

your saying so only shows how stupid you are when it comes to psychology.

So honestly if you don't understand why I have an attitude to this guy now...?

P.S. Chill out spaceexplorer, are you and kromoh the same person or something?

You really won me over at the point where you started insulting people who argued with you. Calling them things like "child" and "innane shitbat "... that was a really high point in your rant. Oh also, i suggest you argue with Kromoh in his native language! Let's see how well you do at arguing in a language that isn't the one you were bought up speaking!

No thanks I'll stick with the language I speak, if he can't communicate with us properly that is his own damn problem, not mine. Maybe he should find a forum of speakers of his language if he can't communicate with me without sounding like a jerkoff.

He is a child and an inane shitbat, if he wants to call me stupid, act as if my words are just bla bla bla and not worth reading, yet he goes to the trouble of replying... So how about instead of just defending him because you have the same beliefs and you agree in this situation.. You tell him to watch his mouth..

No instead you'll jump on my case, and act like Kromoh is Mr. Innocent?

Sorry, but whilst i'm aware that the lack of social skills of a person putting an argument across is no yardstick to the actual validity of the argument. In this case, both your rude, arrogant manner, and your inability to remain calm in a debate, make me realise that you're really not worth the energy conversing with.

I never went off on you because you didn't call me stupid, and say my words were bla bla bla... I'll be just as rude as someone treats me, so why don't you aim that same argument at Kromoh, or wait you agree with each other so that makes his behavior acceptable. That's called hypocrisy. BTW

I've debated on this forum a million times, no one has a problem with me. Maybe it was this childs attitude in the first place, it seems convenient you missed it.

I'm not worth the energy conversing with, than why are you typing? Useless and meaningless words.

From this point on I myself won't be responding to or reading your posts.
I like to debate with those with more manners, charm and good nature.

Cry me a river, I'm the only asshole in this conversation. Kromoh since he agrees with you has a pass to be as much of an asshole as he wants. I gotcha.

I have more manners, charm and good nature than your average person, but I serve up what people give... When did I aim anything at you.. Unless of course you are also Kromoh.

Science hasn't proven evil goblin clowns from the flying teapot dimension to be beyond our realm, it just hasn't proved them. That is the thing, someday you will see.

Yes aren't you clever. You can take the words of mine delete them and throw in any random nonsense.. Congratulations!

Here let me try... Imagine the year 12 AD!

Science hasn't proven gravity exists to hold us down, they just haven't proved it. That is the thing someday you will see

Doesn't sound as ridiculous anymore huh.

P.S. My arguments are to good to reply to? Instead focus on the attitude I was giving Kromoh for calling me stupid.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

None of those comments were aimed at you, they were all for Kromoh.

And it was in response to his attitude.

Lets source that attitude for you.





Yes I'm ignorant to the fact that thousands die every year from car accidents. I'm obviously raised in a farm in the center of the pacific and never met another human being, whats a car? Maybe he should listen to what I say before he replies instead of jumping on my intelligence.



So honestly if you don't understand why I have an attitude to this guy now...?

P.S. Chill out spaceexplorer, are you and kromoh the same person or something?

Did you miss the part where i said im not reading your posts any more?
(and no, i didnt read it, but i did notice you quoted me.. so assuming you are expecting a response. This is all im giving)


So Kromoh, What is your native language?
I'm very impressed by your ability to have a debate in a 3rd language, I myself can only speak English, always been very impressed by those who take the time to learn other languages.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I think it's an cool initiative. Plus, Ariane Sherine is awesome: cute and Atheist, it's win-win.

I only wish it didn't happen just in the UK.

GUYS

THIS BUS

IT'S COOL, WE NEED SOME IN THE U.S.

Originally Posted by no-name

GUYS

THIS BUS

IT'S COOL, WE NEED SOME IN THE U.S.

Totally agree!
Was so glad to see it the other day here in the UK!

The ironic thing was, in that same day... walking into town... I got stopped by 2 Hare Krishnas, got shouted at by 4 Christians, saw several posters for churches...

So nice to have a bit of sense in all this madness.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Did you miss the part where i said im not reading your posts any more?
(and no, i didnt read it, but i did notice you quoted me.. so assuming you are expecting a response. This is all im giving)


So Kromoh, What is your native language?
I'm very impressed by your ability to have a debate in a 3rd language, I myself can only speak English, always been very impressed by those who take the time to learn other languages.

Than why are you replying? Go cry.

Kromoh i'm very impressed at your ability to insult someone in a third language and than have someone else back you up and act like your insulting me is not valid because your first language isn't english..

Does that mean I can start swearing at people in Spanish?

Maybe I'll just start calling you all a bunch of idiotas!

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Volumes of scientific evidence proving psychic powers aren't real?? Tests by James Randi is not volumes, nor legitimate testing in my world.

Why not? Plus, there are multitudes more.

I was not going to contribute here, but that comment really got my attention.

P.S.S. Science hasn't proven Psychic powers to be beyond our realm, it just hasn't proved it. That is the thing, someday you will see.

This is true. Keeping in mind that the same can also be said about my imaginary friend Timmy. It's important to remember that a lack of evidence does not necessitate truth but maintains possibility.

You don't have to believe me, but without a doubt that is what happened.

Do you have other incentives to believe your feats that are removed from bias..?

I understand false memories, and many other far more complicated psychological concepts. But I posted/typed a report of my trip BEFORE the accident, and it matched up. So nothing what changed.

Just popping into the conversation (mostly to try and salvage) - you are saying you predicted an accident, correct..?

Of course, humans do have a tendency to fantasize and there are also a plethora of incidents of imagining or "vividly imagining" certain episodes and most of them do not indeed happen. I can vividly recall maiming customers with knives and the blood spraying everywhere, etc. but it never happened. However, if one of these did happen, I might be inclined to think of myself as prognostic.

It's not completely easy to interpret anything I want from it, I interpret the truth of the matter. Regardless of your uninformed view of this situation it did happen.

Now I'm not arguing your ability, but this comment really exposes something. Is it possibly that case that, unless we are you, we are not going to understand this possibility? In that case, is there any incentive you can give us, besides your word, that these abilities exist..?

I haven't had thousands of car accident dreams to suit this accident that affected someone close to me, I've had ridiculous car accident dreams on giant snow hills or spinning around 50 times in a row.. Nothing close to representing reality as the vision I had did.

I am curious how you differentiate these visions from the ones that are hallucinated and drug induced or even dreams! These have all the sensational receptions as anything else. But most importantly, again, I get the feeling that, unless we are you, there is no way we can understand. And that is where I must say that you have to realize that no one will believe it anymore than my imaginary friend Timmy.

I do not intend to say this to denigrate your position or insult, but can you see how there is little incentive to believe it unless you are the author or audience to the incident?

Listen child, I don't need someone on the INTERNAT who probably has never taken a real psychology course in his life telling me I'm stupid when it comes to psychology. The conscious part of the brain does have precedence over what you do, its the part that does the conscious actions. Maybe you should take a Psych course to learn the importance of your conscious brain when in co-relation with your unconscious/subconscious. Someday maybe you'll be able to have as much control over the workings of your brain as I. Ignoramus your telling me theconscious part of my brain doesn't have precedence, then how am I typing to you right now. My unconscious could take control and start me running into walls or something, ROFL.

This is good, I am glad I stepped in then - I have a Bachelors in Psychology and working on Masters. With that said, I feel my words might be a little credible. There is no necessary "precedent" part of your brain as there is a "precedent" part of your body. Without an asshole, your body would eventually die too. The brain is a wonderful symphony of balances and adaptation and, because of that, it's hard to just say "unconscious" vs. "conscious". They both are very powerful. Though, it is important to remember that there are different schools that will argue if an "unconscious" exists at all and other schools that will say there is no difference between the two. So it really depends on what perspective you want to take. Personally, I would say that the entire mind is reducible as you can lesion certain parts and manipulate thoughts via the brain. If the mind were as "further from physics" as we would like it to be, then the physical manipulation of the brain ought to do nothing. On that note, I would still say there is no precedence of one over the other - they are significantly balanced and mutually depend on the other for survival. I can easily elaborate more if needed.

P.S.S Don't reply to me unless you can drop the dumb comments, because really your just pissing me off with your last childish post and making me angry.

I hope that you and I can have a more civil conversation about this. I hope to demonstrate to others how two people of obviously opposing beliefs can easily discuss something.

~

Originally Posted by DeathCell

No thanks I'll stick with the language I speak

All-right, but next time think twice before judging my intelligence.

He is a child and an inane shitbat, if he wants to call me stupid, act as if my words are just bla bla bla and not worth reading, yet he goes to the trouble of replying... So how about instead of just defending him because you have the same beliefs and you agree in this situation.. You tell him to watch his mouth..

I didn't mean as the general of your words were not worth reading - you are so bad at interpreting that you couldn't understand it. I mean that the specific part I quoted was style without substance. In simpler terms, it was "bla bla bla".

Also, don't say my language skills are worse then yours, when you go as far as separate the noun from the verb with a comma. That is not a typo, nor a simple mistake. No currently existing language uses that kind of formation, so I wonder if you ever look at yourself before accusing others.

Also, nah, my family doesn't say I'm intelligent (I'm not like the average american who has parents complimenting him or her regardless of what they do). They actually treat me as shit. I only concluded I'm intelligent because there are so many people who are less intelligent than me around. And I surely don't mean only brazilians, rest assured of that.

xD I love how defensive you suddenly went.

Also, I *have* taken a course on psychology, just so you know. I even wanted to take psychology up for college, but then changed my mind, and will do medicine, and then, psychiatry. Just once again, don't you do think everyone is just some arrogant prick who knows less then you do. On rare occasions, that person might actually know more than you.

-----------------------

Spaceexplorer, my mother language is Portuguese, and the second one I learned was Spanish. I take a real interest in languages, and have created many fictitious ones for me to write in code - and when I say many, I mean many. Phonetic alphabets, digraphic languages, languages without auxiliary verbs, languages without verbal persons, etc etc. I'm also good at programming, if that counts.

-----------------------

Thanks for backing me up while I was at grandma's guys xD

Originally Posted by O'nus

Why not? Plus, there are multitudes more.

I was not going to contribute here, but that comment really got my attention.
~

James Randi is nothing but a Magician himself, their is something about his operation that irks me. He made his living fooling people, whats to say he isn't trying to fool us all still? The majority of the tests are far to strict, I can only speak for myself but I don't think I'd be able to pass their rigors of testing that require repeating something over and over again.. My visions come and go when they feel like it. Something so random and uncontrollable is hard to test, but doesn't prove its inability to work.

This is true. Keeping in mind that the same can also be said about my imaginary friend Timmy. It's important to remember that a lack of evidence does not necessitate truth but maintains possibility.

Understand, but I wasn't talking about your friend timmy, or flying unicorns etc.. This is the common argument I see, yes you can interchange anything ridiculous into that statement or something more realistic.

See I could say the same kind of statement about gravity, nuclear fission, or any multitude of subjects that at one point in time were not understood. Yes you can interchange Timmy, flying spaghetti monsters, but also any number of things we do understand now.

It does maintain the possibility, but comparing it to Timmy is kind of silly. No one knows about Timmy, millions know about "psychics".

Do you have other incentives to believe your feats that are removed from bias..?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, do I have something to gain from this? Not really, I would like people to simply experience this ability themselves so they can truly understand. Humanity has more going for them than they are aware.. It's the only conclusion I can come to.

Just popping into the conversation (mostly to try and salvage) - you are saying you predicted an accident, correct..?

You are always welcome in my conversations.

Of course, humans do have a tendency to fantasize and there are also a plethora of incidents of imagining or "vividly imagining" certain episodes and most of them do not indeed happen. I can vividly recall maiming customers with knives and the blood spraying everywhere, etc. but it never happened. However, if one of these did happen, I might be inclined to think of myself as prognostic.



Now I'm not arguing your ability, but this comment really exposes something. Is it possibly that case that, unless we are you, we are not going to understand this possibility? In that case, is there any incentive you can give us, besides your word, that these abilities exist..?

Yes humans do tend to fantasize, but are you not usually aware that you are fantasizing? Unless your going down the path of Descartes with his dream argument, in which case we can't know anything to really be reality..

I am well aware of the difference between my imagination, reality and dreamworld. Now for you to take what I'm saying as truth, I guess that is up to you(the reader)

You can take my word or you can not, what I'm saying actually happened to me.. I did the best to confirm it, even posting a trip report on www.dextroverse.org before the incident even happened, sadly I've looked and don't think it is up their anymore. But I have nothing but my word to give you, had I been under the watch of a scientific organization perhaps it would be different.

I wouldn't question your experiences Onus, but all we have is always our words.(On this forum)

I am curious how you differentiate these visions from the ones that are hallucinated and drug induced or even dreams! These have all the sensational receptions as anything else. But most importantly, again, I get the feeling that, unless we are you, there is no way we can understand. And that is where I must say that you have to realize that no one will believe it anymore than my imaginary friend Timmy.

How do I tell the difference between the ridiculous car accident dreams and the real one? Simple. The dreams I've had have been for instance in a parking lot and the car just spun around and around.. I couldn't do that even if I slammed on the brakes at the right time. I had another dream that was on something like mount Everest, no car could possibly drive up that.
I was also awake for the vision that ended up taking my friends life.. Another huge difference.

They all have sensation receptions but I guess it would only be able to be understood if you've had a lot of experience with hallucinogens. I can only speak for myself, but I am always aware when something is a hallucination and when something is real.

Regardless, I wrote down the vision I had while tripping and than the accident happened two days later. What is the importance of the drugs being involved I'm not really sure how that would change anything. Other than the usual how can we believe you because you were under the influence. I have control of myself while tripping so really it makes no sense to me.. I never don't realize I'm tripping..

It's obviously easiest to understand this and be me, as it would be easiest to understand an event that happened to you.

You can not believe it along with Timmy, but as I said any number of things can be thrown into that mix. Until science proves it, all we have to go on is our words. It's only a matter of time.

I do not intend to say this to denigrate your position or insult, but can you see how there is little incentive to believe it unless you are the author or audience to the incident?

Incentive, proof sure. I guess their is no incentive for you to believe, because I have nothing to give to you that would prove it to you. May the day come where someone finally proves it to the scientific world.. And they let the public know. If you knew me in my personal life, especially when that happened perhaps you would have another outlook on this. But I'll give it to you that I can't prove it to you, but...

It doesn't change the fact that it did happen.

This is good, I am glad I stepped in then - I have a Bachelors in Psychology and working on Masters. With that said, I feel my words might be a little credible. There is no necessary "precedent" part of your brain as there is a "precedent" part of your body. Without an asshole, your body would eventually die too. The brain is a wonderful symphony of balances and adaptation and, because of that, it's hard to just say "unconscious" vs. "conscious". They both are very powerful. Though, it is important to remember that there are different schools that will argue if an "unconscious" exists at all and other schools that will say there is no difference between the two. So it really depends on what perspective you want to take. Personally, I would say that the entire mind is reducible as you can lesion certain parts and manipulate thoughts via the brain. If the mind were as "further from physics" as we would like it to be, then the physical manipulation of the brain ought to do nothing. On that note, I would still say there is no precedence of one over the other - they are significantly balanced and mutually depend on the other for survival. I can easily elaborate more if needed.

Thank you for elaborating, I only have a mild understanding of Psychology. I was basically saying my conscious brain has control over my conscious functions! But he came in trying to claim Psychological superiority when his words were obviously not.

I hope that you and I can have a more civil conversation about this. I hope to demonstrate to others how two people of obviously opposing beliefs can easily discuss something.

We can have a heated debate without turning up the flames to burn each other.

You are always an intelligent conversation, albeit we don't see eye to eye all the time.

All-right, but next time think twice before judging my intelligence.

Your words are all I can go on to judge your intelligence.

I didn't mean as the general of your words were not worth reading - you are so bad at interpreting that you couldn't understand it. I mean that the specific part I quoted was style without substance. In simpler terms, it was "bla bla bla".

Ever think that instead of me being bad at interpreting that instead you are bad at communicating, saying bla bla bla is not showing my style without substance, but instead making you look ignorant and as if my comments were not worth reading. I don't care what country nor language you speak, saying bla bla bla to someone is always and will always be RUDE.

Also, don't say my language skills are worse then yours, when you go as far as separate the noun from the verb with a comma. That is not a typo, nor a simple mistake. No currently existing language uses that kind of formation, so I wonder if you ever look at yourself before accusing others.

Honestly I don't care about my placement of commas or any other number of pointless separations of sentences. You try to come off as intelligent but instead come off as a nitpick.

My language skills are superior to yours, the least important part of writing would be placement of commas, :, ;. etc..
You are now shooting in the dark, at least I have the ability to articulate myself without coming off as a condescending and arrogant. I don't really care if your main language is not English, it isn't an excuse for your obviously rude words. I don't feel any sympathy for your inability to properly communicate with us in English, I wouldn't attempt to speak with others in debate unless I had a full grasp of their language.

If you think the importance of understanding and communicating in English is proper placement of commas, than no wonder you come off as you do. It's a surprise you can communicate with us at all.

Also, nah, my family doesn't say I'm intelligent (I'm not like the average american who has parents complimenting him or her regardless of what they do). They actually treat me as shit. I only concluded I'm intelligent because there are so many people who are less intelligent than me around. And I surely don't mean only brazilians, rest assured of that.

Hmm... Sounds like a wonderful home situation. Oh the portuguese, old woman sure are loud when they yell. I live in a town full of em.

Also, I *have* taken a course on psychology, just so you know. I even wanted to take psychology up for college, but then changed my mind, and will do medicine, and then, psychiatry. Just once again, don't you do think everyone is just some arrogant prick who knows less then you do. On rare occasions, that person might actually know more than you.

As I'm sure Onus is far more versed in the subject that both of us, nothing you said made you sound like you had an understanding past the simplest concepts of psych. And you had to diss me and make me feel as if I'm an idiot, once again not the proper way to communicate with others, IN ANY LANGUAGE.

Not speaking English as your first language, is not an excuse for being an ass.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

James Randi is nothing but a Magician himself, their is something about his operation that irks me. He made his living fooling people, whats to say he isn't trying to fool us all still? The majority of the tests are far to strict, I can only speak for myself but I don't think I'd be able to pass their rigors of testing that require repeating something over and over again.. My visions come and go when they feel like it. Something so random and uncontrollable is hard to test, but doesn't prove its inability to work.

This is hard to say without sounding condescending in some way, but you must understand that it is hard for anyone else besides you to see the difference between what you are saying and random chance. The idea is that, if you have psychic abilities, you ought to be able to utilize them at any time. Otherwise, they are not so much abilities as they are random chance or a random "blessing". One is inclined to describe them as a fleeting vision of prognostication, but this is hardly different at all from a random fantasizing about something and having it come true - in fact, the latter might be more frequent. So, while I understand your frustration with others to demonstrate your abilities, you must acknowledge the lack of incentive to believe it.

See I could say the same kind of statement about gravity, nuclear fission, or any multitude of subjects that at one point in time were not understood. Yes you can interchange Timmy, flying spaghetti monsters, but also any number of things we do understand now.

Exactly, but you cannot rely on that as a means to justify your beliefs or abilities. There are an infinite amount of things you can say that about or say that, "Well, once people didn't believe this to be true, but they had an idea.. and NOW we understand it to be true, so there is a likeliness that this is true to" this is really a desperate plea for justification. My end point is really just, only you can understand this ability, and, for that, it makes it no different (to anyone else) than random chance or imagination.

It does maintain the possibility, but comparing it to Timmy is kind of silly. No one knows about Timmy, millions know about "psychics".

Everyone knows of imaginary friends, but now if I say "ghost" what is the real difference? You can see the potential debate here, but can you also see the significant resemblance between ghosts and imaginary friends..? To best expose it, just listen to people describe their encounters with ghosts in the same way people describe their encounters with their imaginary friends. The only real difference is a sense of fear or comfort, no?

Not really, I would like people to simply experience this ability themselves so they can truly understand. Humanity has more going for them than they are aware.. It's the only conclusion I can come to.

You see, this is where I'd like to say that people often become too enticed in the idea of fantastic abilities and supernatural fantasies whereas they fail to see the power of their imagination and the infinite possibilities of being powerless. This is not really an argument here, just sharing with you my perspective because I know that many who believe in psychic abilities think that those who do not believe in them (ie. me) have no inclining to the supernatural. But I do! And so much more! The supernatural imagination and the infinite wisdom of being weak is actually awing to me. This is existentialism at it's best.

Yes humans do tend to fantasize, but are you not usually aware that you are fantasizing? Unless your going down the path of Descartes with his dream argument, in which case we can't know anything to really be reality..

No no, I wouldn't do the Cartesian shit, lol. Just saying that it is very common of us to have fantasies and even "get lost" in them. Is it not possible to have an incident of someone becoming so passionate and emotionally involved into a fantasy that it seems real?

I am well aware of the difference between my imagination, reality and dreamworld. Now for you to take what I'm saying as truth, I guess that is up to you(the reader)

And you see that is really my only point here - the only persons that will decide that it may be true are the ones that already have an inclining that it is true. It really offers absolutely no incentive to believe to those that do not. Which is sad, I know, but true. This does not make us "narrow-minded" it's simply that you do not believe everything you hear because, let's be honest, people in the world claim to be able to do many, many, things. If you were to read the journals of schizophrenics and believe everything they said, you would be under the impression that the world has ended, you died, there are 12 Jesus', everyones a zombie, and diapers are the best thing to make a bed out of. Not making fun of schizophrenics, just making the point that they are deluded and claim these things to be true and that you would believe them and think it true if you experienced what they experienced.

I think you see my point here.

You can take my word or you can not, what I'm saying actually happened to me.. I did the best to confirm it, even posting a trip report on www.dextroverse.org before the incident even happened, sadly I've looked and don't think it is up their anymore. But I have nothing but my word to give you, had I been under the watch of a scientific organization perhaps it would be different.

I wouldn't question your experiences Onus, but all we have is always our words.(On this forum)

That's an interesting site... about taking drugs..? Where is your report on there? I am confused to see you cite this and can only imagine you cringe at my comment about drugs, so.. I'm curious for elaboration..?

All we have is our words at all! But the thing is, I can describe to you what I have learned and prove it to you. I can cite many different things about your senses off the top of my head and prove them to you with demonstrations so that you can experience the conclusions which is exactly what science is! Science is the art of helping others experience what you experienced to bring you to that conclusion! That is the heart of it! Yet, it is all too easy to just say that science is "reducing" and "narrow-minded" and yet it is a world full of sharing experiences and conclusions to further the human understanding.

The difficulty is that, you cannot demonstrate to anyone your abilities or control them. You cannot offer me a means to experience them myself. Thus, to anyone else, it is just as real to us as another fairy tale and just as believable that you have these abilities as a hollywood movie. I do not intend this as insulting, this is just what the perspectives are!

How do I tell the difference between the ridiculous car accident dreams and the real one? Simple. The dreams I've had have been for instance in a parking lot and the car just spun around and around.. I couldn't do that even if I slammed on the brakes at the right time. I had another dream that was on something like mount Everest, no car could possibly drive up that.
I was also awake for the vision that ended up taking my friends life.. Another huge difference.

No no, I mean how do you differentiate from your visions and, say, dreams or hallucinations - because they are claimed just as real and vivid. In fact, some people go insane from believing in them so much. These are paranoid schizophrenics.

They all have sensation receptions but I guess it would only be able to be understood if you've had a lot of experience with hallucinogens. I can only speak for myself, but I am always aware when something is a hallucination and when something is real.

That is a bit self-defeating then. If you claim to always be aware of your senses, then you ought to be able to be impervious to many of the flaws of your senses. Hallucinations are called that because they "appear real" when only the one person can actually see them.

It is a grand claim you make to say that you can always differentiate hallucinations from reality and the only way anyone could call you on that is with actual tests. This is safe for you because no one can ever tell if you are even having a hallucination at all.

So.. how can anyone ever prove you wrong about this..? You have made an impossible-to-argue proposition? Does that mean it is just so powerful that it is unfalsifiable or that it is so confounded and introverted that no one can touch it but you..?

You can not believe it along with Timmy, but as I said any number of things can be thrown into that mix. Until science proves it, all we have to go on is our words. It's only a matter of time.

Make sure to tread carefully on how you use science. Keeping in mind that science is the art of helping others experience what you experienced, what you are saying then is equivalent to, "I experienced it, I think it is true, but there is no way I can help you experience it." If I said this to you about claim X, would you believe me? It's kind of a rhetorical question, just to give insight to my perspective.

Incentive, proof sure. I guess their is no incentive for you to believe, because I have nothing to give to you that would prove it to you. May the day come where someone finally proves it to the scientific world.. And they let the public know. If you knew me in my personal life, especially when that happened perhaps you would have another outlook on this. But I'll give it to you that I can't prove it to you, but...

It doesn't change the fact that it did happen.

I just want to note that this is the same thing that is said in regards to paranoid schizophrenics, delusional, alzheimers, etc. "If you knew me, you'd believe me" or "if you experience what I experienced, you'd believe me" - this is not something I would ever personally bank on to justify an experience to myself.

The power of being powerless is sometimes all too awing that we must fantasize the supernatural.

We can have a heated debate without turning up the flames to burn each other.

You are always an intelligent conversation, albeit we don't see eye to eye all the time.

That's exactly the point!

~

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Ever think that instead of me being bad at interpreting that instead you are bad at communicating, saying bla bla bla is not showing my style without substance, but instead making you look ignorant and as if my comments were not worth reading. I don't care what country nor language you speak, saying bla bla bla to someone is always and will always be RUDE.

Nah, it actually ain't that rude. You are just freaking out over something mild because I contested your supposed vision.

Honestly I don't care about my placement of commas or any other number of pointless separations of sentences. You try to come off as intelligent but instead come off as a nitpick.

My language skills are superior to yours, the least important part of writing would be placement of commas, :, ;. etc..

Grammar is the most important part of language - it shows logical reasoning, argumentation handling, concept handling, level of abstraction, amount of practice, ease at understanding semantic correlations and whatnot. Placing of commas in a wrong place is worse than a typo because it is intentional, don't you realise that? Most people do.

You are now shooting in the dark, at least I have the ability to articulate myself without coming off as a condescending and arrogant. I don't really care if your main language is not English, it isn't an excuse for your obviously rude words. I don't feel any sympathy for your inability to properly communicate with us in English, I wouldn't attempt to speak with others in debate unless I had a full grasp of their language.

xD Once again, I said, English not being my first language changes nothing in any argument, but at least you should save that in mind before you judge my intelligence, or even, bash my language skills. And if you say I don't have a full grasp of the English language, then you are just acting blind. I speak far better than a majority of native English speakers, and even have passed Cambridge's three top level English exams.

If you think the importance of understanding and communicating in English is proper placement of commas, than no wonder you come off as you do. It's a surprise you can communicate with us at all.

You lack understanding of very simple concepts of language. There's a tremendous difference between a typo and a conceptual and intentional mistake. There is a very important theoretical reason to why a verb cannot be separated from the noun of a sentence, but since you claim to be so superior to me, you should know it better than I do.

Hmm... Sounds like a wonderful home situation. Oh the portuguese, old woman sure are loud when they yell. I live in a town full of em.

I'm from Brazil, for the record. Don't be so ignorant next time.

As I'm sure Onus is far more versed in the subject that both of us, nothing you said made you sound like you had an understanding past the simplest concepts of psych. And you had to diss me and make me feel as if I'm an idiot, once again not the proper way to communicate with others, IN ANY LANGUAGE.

How can you be so cynical as to try to judge my knowledge of psychology, when you said something so bad as the conscious mind having precedence over things (which doesn't even make sense in first place). I'm assuredly not as knowledgeable in psychology as O'nus (obvious reasons), but I can also assuredly say I'm better at it than you.

Not speaking English as your first language, is not an excuse for being an ass.

Again separating the noun from the verb with a comma. I didn't want to say this earlier, but when a person makes this mistake, it shows they have a problem with grasping meaning from long sentences. Just go ask any pedagogue.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Again separating the noun from the verb with a comma. I didn't want to say this earlier, but when a person makes this mistake, it shows they have a problem with grasping meaning from long sentences. Just go ask any pedagogue.

... or they are providing a pause for other people who might get lost in the sentence.